Why Christians DON'T need Rules, Laws, Works, Religion, Predestination, etc.

[Robert Pate]

Things have not changed in 2000 years. It is still the same old thing, faith verses religion.

Paul wrote to the Romans, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17.

And then right after that he said, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness, because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has shown it unto them" Romans 1:18, 19.

If you feel that you need rules, laws, works, religion, predestination or whatever, then you are not living by faith and you are probably not a Christian, but you think that you are. what you are is religious. Religion parallels with Christianity, but it is not Christianity, its religion.

Jesus said, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, didn't we..." Matthew 7:22. They thought that it was all about them and their religion. They had faith, but they did not have faith in Christ, they had faith in their religion.

Christians only have faith in Christ and his Gospel, plus nothing. They don't have faith in anything that they are or in what they have become. Their focus is on Christ and on Christ alone. As the song goes... "On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand" The sinking sand is religion. Religion is about us and our works, it is subjective. The Gospel is about Jesus Christ and his Gospel, it is objective. We are the benefactors of the Gospel. We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with our salvation. We were reconciled to God by Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago, 2 Corinthians 5:18. Spiritually, we are "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven, Ephesians 2:6. We stand before God as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

What religious people are trying to do in their flesh is already ours in Jesus Christ. Satan always tries to pervert the true with something that is false. In this case it is religion. Religion leads us into ourselves, who are sinners. In and of ourselves there is no hope. Our very best is always tainted with sin and pride. Christians always go outside of themselves to Christ who is pure and without sin. The religious person goes into himself, who is a sinner. This is exactly what the devil wants you to do, He wants you to be religious.

 

[Nanja]

You don't believe the scriptures, Pate.

Predestination is a biblical doctrine!

Eph. 1:4-5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

All those who had a Vital Union with Christ before the foundation of the world, were predestinated to be God's Sons / Children!

~~~~~

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

It is still the same old thing, faith verses religion.

Hey Robert.

Interesting post. Just curious about a couple things:

If you feel that you need rules, laws,

Jesus said, "...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matt. 19:17) then He went on to list some of them like you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, etc.

Jesus also said: "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matt. 6:14-15)

Would you consider those to be "rules" or "laws"?

works,

Paul says, "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love." (Galatians 5:6).

Faith "worketh by love" or "working through love" (as other translations put it) is what matters.

Are those not "works"?

religion, predestination or whatever, then you are not living by faith and you are probably not a Christian, but you think that you are. what you are is religious. Religion parallels with Christianity, but it is not Christianity, its religion.

Could you please clarify what you mean by "religion"? Maybe a definition. That might really help me understand what you are saying. And I think I agree with you, in essence, but some of what you said I don't understand.

Christians only have faith in Christ and his Gospel, plus nothing.

I'm not saying that I disagree here, but could you point me to a scripture that says that? Just curious.

Also, for a believer to place his/her faith in Christ and his Gospel...isn't that an act of the will? So isn't that a "work"?

Also, doesn't having faith in Christ mean obeying Him? Like when he says feed the hungry, care for the sick, etc. ? Isn't part of His Gospel to do those things which could be considered "works"?

They don't have faith in anything that they are or in what they have become. Their focus is on Christ and on Christ alone.

Amen.

So is what you mean to say is that people who try to follow rules and laws and works etc. WITHOUT Christ are being "religious" and are in spiritual danger?

But Jesus did leave us with rules and laws and works to do didn't He? So....doing those with Faith IN Christ is a good thing....right?

Is that what you mean? Just trying to understand.

God bless.

 

[Robert Pate]

You don't believe the scriptures, Pate.

Predestination is a biblical doctrine!

Eph. 1:4-5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

All those who had a Vital Union with Christ before the foundation of the world, were predestinated to be God's Sons / Children!

~~~~~

Of course you are wrong. If God chose "Some Certain Persons" to be saved before the foundation of the world and damned the rest to hell, then you have an unmerciful, unjust, unrighteous God that is a tyrant. It is not humanly possible to have faith in that kind of a God. You not only have a false God, you have false faith.

As for Ephesians 1:4-5. God has chosen ALL OF HUMANITY in his Son Jesus Christ. God sees everything in his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity. As far as God is concerned the whole world has been reconciled unto him by his Son Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. But nothing is yours if you don't receive it by faith.

You have rejected God's great free gift of salvation and are trusting in a false doctrine to save you.

 

[Epoisses]

Things have not changed in 2000 years. It is still the same old thing, faith verses religion.

Paul wrote to the Romans, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17.

And then right after that he said, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness, because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has shown it unto them" Romans 1:18, 19.

If you feel that you need rules, laws, works, religion, predestination or whatever, then you are not living by faith and you are probably not a Christian, but you think that you are. what you are is religious. Religion parallels with Christianity, but it is not Christianity, its religion.

Jesus said, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, didn't we..." Matthew 7:22. They thought that it was all about them and their religion. They had faith, but they did not have faith in Christ, they had faith in their religion.

Christians only have faith in Christ and his Gospel, plus nothing. They don't have faith in anything that they are or in what they have become. Their focus is on Christ and on Christ alone. As the song goes... "On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand" The sinking sand is religion. Religion is about us and our works, it is subjective. The Gospel is about Jesus Christ and his Gospel, it is objective. We are the benefactors of the Gospel. We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with our salvation. We were reconciled to God by Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago, 2 Corinthians 5:18. Spiritually, we are "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven, Ephesians 2:6. We stand before God as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

What religious people are trying to do in their flesh is already ours in Jesus Christ. Satan always tries to pervert the true with something that is false. In this case it is religion. Religion leads us into ourselves, who are sinners. In and of ourselves there is no hope. Our very best is always tainted with sin and pride. Christians always go outside of themselves to Christ who is pure and without sin. The religious person goes into himself, who is a sinner. This is exactly what the devil wants you to do, He wants you to be religious.

Amen.

 

[Epoisses]

You don't believe the scriptures, Pate.

Predestination is a biblical doctrine!

Eph. 1:4-5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

All those who had a Vital Union with Christ before the foundation of the world, were predestinated to be God's Sons / Children!

~~~~~

Only God knows who are the elect. you and your cult have no clue.

 

[Epoisses]

Jesus said, "...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matt. 19:17) then He went on to list some of them like you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, etc.

Jesus also said: "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matt. 6:14-15)

Would you consider those to be "rules" or "laws"?

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:34,35

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:34,35

Amen Epoisses!!:thumb: Another good example of a commandment...that could be considered a "rule" or "law" or "work" given to us by Jesus!! I mean, it is something that He commanded His followers to do and it is not optional, right?

 

[Epoisses]

Amen Epoisses!!:thumb: Another good example of a commandment...that could be considered a "rule" or "law" or "work" given to us by Jesus!! I mean, it is something that He commanded His followers to do and it is not optional, right?

We don't do love. We receive love as one of the fruits of the Spirit. I can't spontaneously generate love! I tried it before and it ended up being hate and I got punched in the face.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

We don't do love. We receive love as one of the fruits of the Spirit. I can't spontaneously generate love! I tried it before and it ended up being hate and I got punched in the face.

Well, yeah we can receive love.

And we are also capable of loving others, right? Loving another person is doing something. I guess I'm thinking that "to love" is a verb. In other words, loving another person is something we can choose to do or not. It is an act of our will.

In the context of the original post, "to love one another" would seem to qualify as a "rule" or "law" or "work" or requirement/commandment of us by Jesus. He told His followers to do that.

What did He tell His followers to do? Love one another. (Among other things.)

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by "spontaneously generate love".

 

[Nanja]

Of course you are wrong. If God chose "Some Certain Persons" to be saved before the foundation of the world and damned the rest to hell, then you have an unmerciful, unjust, unrighteous God that is a tyrant. It is not humanly possible to have faith in that kind of a God. You not only have a false God, you have false faith.

As for Ephesians 1:4-5. God has chosen ALL OF HUMANITY in his Son Jesus Christ. God sees everything in his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity. As far as God is concerned the whole world has been reconciled unto him by his Son Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. But nothing is yours if you don't receive it by faith.

You have rejected God's great free gift of salvation and are trusting in a false doctrine to save you.

Blasphemy against God. Woe unto you!

~~~~~

 

[Robert Pate]

Hey Robert.

Interesting post. Just curious about a couple things:



Jesus said, "...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matt. 19:17) then He went on to list some of them like you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, etc.

Jesus also said: "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matt. 6:14-15)

Would you consider those to be "rules" or "laws"?



Paul says, "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love." (Galatians 5:6).

Faith "worketh by love" or "working through love" (as other translations put it) is what matters.

Are those not "works"?



Could you please clarify what you mean by "religion"? Maybe a definition. That might really help me understand what you are saying. And I think I agree with you, in essence, but some of what you said I don't understand.



I'm not saying that I disagree here, but could you point me to a scripture that says that? Just curious.

Also, for a believer to place his/her faith in Christ and his Gospel...isn't that an act of the will? So isn't that a "work"?

Also, doesn't having faith in Christ mean obeying Him? Like when he says feed the hungry, care for the sick, etc. ? Isn't part of His Gospel to do those things which could be considered "works"?




Amen.

So is what you mean to say is that people who try to follow rules and laws and works etc. WITHOUT Christ are being "religious" and are in spiritual danger?

But Jesus did leave us with rules and laws and works to do didn't He? So....doing those with Faith IN Christ is a good thing....right?

Is that what you mean? Just trying to understand.

God bless.

Jesus was born under the law, lived under the law and died under the law. The purpose of the law is to reveal the righteous of God and the sinfulness of man. Jesus as our substitute and representative fulfilled all of the demands of God's holy and then he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15.

You are either under the law or you are "In Christ". If you are "In Christ" then you are spiritually, perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Do you need spiritual instructions? What is it that you need to be told to do? If you need instructions then maybe you are not "In Christ". Maybe you don't have the Holy Spirit who is the Christians teacher and guide. Maybe you need the law because you are a lost sinner, 1 Timothy 1:9, 10.

 

[Robert Pate]

Blasphemy against God. Woe unto you!

~~~~~

I find it hard to believe that anyone can be taken into such a hideous religion such as Calvinism.

Of all of the false doctrines and religions Calvinism is one of the worst.

You want to believe that God condemns people to hell because they are born after Adam. We are all born after Adam. We all sinners. But God in his great mercy sends his only begotten Son unto the world... "That WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16. You have missed out on this. Instead of accepting God's great free gift of salvation you want to be predestinated.

 

[Nanja]

I find it hard to believe that anyone can be taken into such a hideous religion such as Calvinism.

Of all of the false doctrines and religions Calvinism is one of the worst.

You want to believe that God condemns people to hell because they are born after Adam. We are all born after Adam. We all sinners. But God in his great mercy sends his only begotten Son unto the world... "That WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16. You have missed out on this. Instead of accepting God's great free gift of salvation you want to be predestinated.

Predestination is a doctrine of God's Grace Rom. 8:29-30; Eph. 1:5, 11 given to all the Election of Grace before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9


Your carnal belief in the god of your own darkened understanding is a consequence of being alienated from the Life of God. Eph.4:17-18: Spiritually dead. That's why you continually blaspheme the True God and His Words John 8:44.

~~~~~

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Predestination is a doctrine of God's Grace Rom. 8:29-30; Eph. 1:5, 11 given to all the Election of Grace before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9


Your carnal belief in the god of your own darkened understanding is a consequence of being alienated from the Life of God. Eph.4:17-18: Spiritually dead. That's why you continually blaspheme the True God and His Words John 8:44.

~~~~~

You're an "Ultra, Hyper-Calvinist Fanatic" like your associate B57. It's difficult and near impossible to trust anything you or he has to say.

 

[Robert Pate]

Predestination is a doctrine of God's Grace Rom. 8:29-30; Eph. 1:5, 11 given to all the Election of Grace before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9


Your carnal belief in the god of your own darkened understanding is a consequence of being alienated from the Life of God. Eph.4:17-18: Spiritually dead. That's why you continually blaspheme the True God and His Words John 8:44.

~~~~~

In the judgment, you might be better of to be an atheist.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Jesus was born under the law, lived under the law and died under the law. The purpose of the law is to reveal the righteous of God and the sinfulness of man. Jesus as our substitute and representative fulfilled all of the demands of God's holy and then he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15.

Hey Robert.

When you say that Jesus abolished the law...what does that exactly entail? Do you mean He abolished all rules, laws, regulations, etc. including those found in the 10 commandments? And including those that He taught to His followers while He was here on earth?

You are either under the law or you are "In Christ". If you are "In Christ" then you are spiritually, perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

I don't see anything in Colossians 2 that says being "in Christ" makes us "spiritually perfect and complete". May I ask what translation you see that in? The ones I am looking at say we have "fullness" of life in Him.

Do you need spiritual instructions? What is it that you need to be told to do? If you need instructions then maybe you are not "In Christ".

Yes, I do. That's why I try to read my bible. I want to be told how to live my life in a way that is pleasing to God. If I admit that I need those instructions...then maybe I am not "In Christ"? Really?

Are you saying that it would be better for me if I didn't read my Bible? What would you say is the purpose of reading a Bible?

Maybe you don't have the Holy Spirit who is the Christians teacher and guide.

May I ask...do you read your bible? Why or why not?

I asked a few questions in my first post and I don't think you have really taken the time to answer them.

Could I just ask one here and ask you to answer it please?

In Matthew 6:14-15 Jesus says that IF we forgive others, the Father will forgive us. But IF WE DON'T forgive others, the Father won't forgive us either.

Would you say that that still applies to us today or is that something that you would say only applies to those living "under the law"?

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[jamie]

Jesus as our substitute and representative fulfilled all of the demands of God's holy and then he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15.

Really? Was that the reason for the Jerusalem conference? Did the apostles and elders need to remind everyone that there was no law for Jews or Gentiles?

Robert, surely you can do better. Put some effort into it.

:sigh:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Really? Was that the reason for the Jerusalem conference? Did the apostles and elders need to remind everyone that there was no law for Jews or Gentiles?

Robert, surely you can do better. Put some effort into it.

:sigh:

I haven't seen YOU say anything brilliant lately? Oh, wait, I've never heard you say anything brilliant.

 

[Nanja]

In the judgment, you might be better of to be an atheist.

Be concerned for yourself.

Is. 54:17
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

I shall see you there.

~~~~~