Why Calvinist, Catholics, Others, Never Talk About Being "In Christ"

God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
I just gave scripture where Paul says it is a deception to believe wrong doers inherit the kingdom of God.

When one is saved, they receive the kingdom of God in their heart, and they have also been seated with Christ in heaven.

Paul says wrong doers do not receive that.

Robert Pate says they do.

I believe God and not Robert.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
God's Truth said:
Sanctification happens the time a person is saved by the blood of Jesus.



It isn't fooling people to tell them the Way and the Truth and the Life.

You are the one trying to do that.

Many are fooled into thinking they can do whatever they want as long as they believe in Jesus.

The Bible says they are deceived by Satan.

It might feel good to believe as they do, but it is a deception.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.


Did you think it wouldn't sound good and feel good to be deceived by Satan?

James 1:16 Don't be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters.


Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God?


Robert Pate says they do.




Robert Pate says they do. He says they only have to believe.
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No, Jesus said that, "Whosoever believes in him should not perish" John 3:16.
 
TweetyBird

TweetyBird

New member
musterion said:
That's Calvinism's Catholic roots talking.
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nahhh - it's found in the Bible. There are lots of mysteries unknown to mankind. Only God knows the end from the beginning. No one can understand the free will of man and the will of God and how they intersect. Rom 9 says clearly that God can force people to harden their hearts, because He is God and has done so for His purposes.


1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Deuteronomy 29:29
The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Isa 55
For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways,
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10
For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven,
and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth,
and maketh it bring forth and bud,
that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11
so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Tambora said:
Ask Calvinist which word in scripture they are translating to "sovereign or sovereignty".
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I always go with R.C. Sproul's definition (paraphrased): if even one molecule of gas floating in deep space does not have its entire path of its existence predetermined, God is not in control of the universe. I've seen Calvinists say that Sproul overstated that a bit but push come to shove, they end up defining sovereignty the same way with regard to people. So they end up playing word games whenever they discuss the subject of human will.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
TweetyBird said:
nahhh - it's found in the Bible. There are lots of mysteries unknown to mankind. Only God knows the end from the beginning. No one can understand the free will of man and the will of God and how they intersect. Rom 9 says clearly that God can force people to harden their hearts, because He is God and has done so for His purposes.


1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Deuteronomy 29:29
The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Isa 55
For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways,
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10
For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven,
and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth,
and maketh it bring forth and bud,
that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11
so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Click to expand...

Your pattern is to use lots of words to avoid saying what you really think. Help us understand you:

It is God's will that at least some will never be saved, because He did not want them to be saved.

True or false?
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Tambora said:
Ask Calvinist which word in scripture they are translating to "sovereign or sovereignty".
Click to expand...

"Sovereign" is a theological title for God Almighty, first translated to English from the Latin. "Sovereign" is not found in Scripture, just as the term "Trinity" is not, but is used to convey the authority of God in the Hebrew according to the definition of "Jehovah," and the Greek definition and usage of "Lord."

So?
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Can't say you KNOW you're in Christ because faith in the Gospel isn't enough. You FIRST have know that you were elected, regenerated and enabled to HAVE genuine faith.

But since that cannot be known, you always have in the back of your mind that you could prove to be spurious-faithed reprobate before it's over.

That's where Lordship Salvation comes in...works that let you convince yourself and others over time that you really are elect (probably) and so really have believed (probably) and probably WILL be saved (but not ARE saved).

But to claim to be "in Christ" while allowing even a 1 in 100 chance you're actually a pre-damned reprobate would be presumption.

That's why for the Reformed (and almost everyone else) assurance of salvation -- even if it's granted as possible, it often isn't -- is never in terms of what Gospel you believed but what works you've done and are doing.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
musterion said:
Can't say you KNOW you're in Christ because faith in the Gospel isn't enough. You FIRST have know that you were elected, regenerated and enabled to HAVE genuine faith.
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You are just full of misinformation, and false accusations, aren't you?

I am in Christ, through the power of His grace, and have faith that is founded upon the revelation of His Truth; the Holy Scriptures. I have great assurance through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who has promised to lead me into all Truth.

A person is only saved by the propositions he believes, and I believe and live by every word God has spoken. Matthew 4:4

So your words mean absolutely nothing to me.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Nang said:
You are just full of misinformation, and false accusations, aren't you?

I am in Christ, through the power of His grace, and have faith that is founded upon the revelation of His Truth; the Holy Scriptures. I have great assurance through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who has promised to lead me into all Truth.

A person is only saved by the propositions he believes, and I believe and live by every word God has spoken. Matthew 4:4

So your words mean absolutely nothing to me.
Click to expand...

You may yet prove to be a reprobate. I cannot.

The difference: you believe TULIP is the gospel. I believe the Gospel of the grace of God.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
TweetyBird said:
I am not a Calvinist. I don't believe that there is any part of Calvinism that denies that Jesus Christ is not enough for all who call upon His Name.
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You're wrong. His blood was not shed for those God didn't elect. It's not that they won't be saved, it's that they can't be saved. All by God's sovereign purpose.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned

The scripture tells us that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world.

"And he is a propitiation for our sins: and not ours only, but also for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2.
 
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