Anything that deviates from "Paul's Gospel" is "Wrong."
Why Calvinist Cannot Defend Their Doctrine of a Limited Atonement
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Anything that deviates from "Paul's Gospel" is "Wrong."
Amen.
I see "Student X is back. That should be fun?
Nanja
Well-known member
You can boast all day long about your hearing and believing.
But the Truth is, you can't even hear spiritually unless God has first made you Spiritually Alive / Born Again! Prov. 20:12.
Believing / Faith is a fruit of the Spirit, not a work a man in the flesh can do to get himself saved.
And frankly, there is no evidence that you have been made spiritually alive because you don't believe the Gospel Truths of TULIP, found directly in the scriptures, is the Gospel.
2 Tim. 2:15!
~~~~~
Oops!
Romans 10:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:17 New King James Version (NKJV)
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Neither AMR, B57 or Nanja can answer the simple question.
Nanja
Well-known member
The only ones who will "hear" and "believe on Him" are those who have been made Spiritually Alive.
Faith is a Fruit of the Spirit Gal. 5:22.
Can a dead man hear?
Can a dead man believe?
Nope!
~~~~~
heir
TOL Subscriber
To trust the Lord for salvation one must have first heard and believed the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation. If you haven't, you are not in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV).
So, how does it feel to be wrong?
Ephesians 2:8-9New King James Version (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Nanja
Well-known member
Unless one is first made Spiritually Alive / Born Again, their own believing
is merely a work of the flesh which can never please God Rom. 8:7-8!
~~~~~
You do not understand Ephesians 2:8-9 do you?
http://www.gotquestions.org/where-does-faith-come-from.html
So, you woke up one morning and lo and behold, you had been zapped with the Holy Spirit?
Hyper-Calvinists are not logical. Their thoughts are received within
the confines of the deepest recesses of, "The Twilight Zone."
Any doctrine that preaches against Paul's Gospel, is a false gospel.
Does that help you?
Pate is a Co-Redeemer
Pate is a Co-Redeemer
... all the while you are trying to get faith from Jesus to become saved ?
This scheme of Co-Redemption gospels put the cart before the horse. They've reversed the order of events given in Jn.3:3 and Acts 13:48.
The Co-Redeemers are literally saying... you, the unbeliever, first perceives the kingdom of God and then, cause yourself to be born from
above because you defaulted to your denominational traditions, recited the Sinners Prayer and with sincerity, and because of your perception
did the right thing by denominational traditions and placed a faith you are trying to get from Jesus, in Jesus... all the while you don't
have faith to place in Jesus. Mt.17:17 is as clear as day declaring man, in his unredeemed state of being and in the flesh has no faith to
place in Jesus Christ.
Man, in his unredeemed state of being, is " faithless." He has no faith to place in Jesus Christ being he is an unbeliever. And, one of
the key lies of Co-Redemption is that their scheme of placing a faith you do not have in Jesus is not a work all the while the Word of God
says plainly that faith * Is * a work, 1 Thes.1:3. How is it then that Co-Redeemers claim you have a faith to place in Jesus when God says
you certainly do not ? How come the Co-Redeemers, insisting the Bible is their " only " rule of faith and practice, is not believed by
them ? These people call God a liar every time they suppose placing a work of faith in Jesus, saves.
There is only " one faith," Eph.4:5, in all of God's creation from which knowing God in the saving sense of full deliverance from the
bondage to Satan, sin and death is had, and that is the faith of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. This is the faith that is " not of
yourselves " spoken of in Eph.2:8,9. And, because the Living God is not of " this world," Jn.8:23, neither is His faith of this world.
How is it that the Co-Redeemers tell you it's their faith they've placed in Christ to become saved when they're trying to obtain what they
call " saving faith " * from * Christ ? Reversing Jn.3:3 is one of their favorite tactics to sway people into thinking a person can save
themselves... and by works at that. Shame on the Co-Redeemers.
Nonetheless, reducing the Lord Jesus Christ to one half participant in salvation is what Co-Redemption is all about. Man co-operates with
Christ's half finished work of redemption and the two create one saved soul when man invites Jesus into his heart. He did His part and man
must do his part or the Sinners Prayer simply doesn't avail anything. Water baptism fits into the same salvation by works category...
Creation administered by a created being results in salvation while casting off the flesh of the foreskin results in salvation. And they
claim the Bible is their only rule of faith and practice ?
How far off the path can a denomination be to actually tell people they can save themselves by their denominational recital of a Sinners
Prayer ? There is no likeness in Holy Scripture when comparing the Scripture to what comes out of the mouths of church fathers who are only
too glad to redefine the work of Christ so that they get part of His glory for the saving. How come we are told Christ does the seeking and
the saving in Lk.19:10 and the Co-Redemption gospels counter this doctrine by saying you, the individual, must do something positive out of
your own free will and choose Christ as your Lord and Savior ? How come the Co-Redeemers reject Ro.10:20 which clearly states that those
* Not * seeking for God find Him ? " Salvation belongs to the Lord," Ps.3:8... not " belongs to man co-operating with the Lord, " Jn.6:44.
Interestingly enough, the word translated " draw " in this passage is really better translated " drag " as it is in Jn.21:6. The
Co-Redeemers think they flock to Jesus with abundant free will all the while the Word of God declares the exact opposite.
The Co-Redeemers are speaking from their own fleshly hearts to speak contrary to Ro.3:10 and following.. they claim they understood the
Gospel of Jesus Christ, sought for God via their denominational traditions and by these traditions confessed to Christ with their Sinners
Prayer. Christ is then a failure except for their magic Sinners Prayer which God can't save without hearing.
There must be a " falling away " before the End comes. Satan must take his seat in the churches by casting Jesus Christ out of it, 2
Thes.2. The churches of Christendom, under the strong delusion sent down from God upon them, is ever so obvious in their insistence that
Christ died for every last man on earth but only the Sinners Prayer can save you or some other work you must do before His dying in your
place has any saving benefit. His redeeming the whole world in their preaching of Universal Atonement resulted in no one being filled with
the Holy Spirit, which is inseparable from genuine redemption, Eph.1:13,14, and only those smart enough to recite the Sinners Prayer ever
benefits from their good deed which not only manifests Jesus Christ as a failure but also manifests Him as reachable only through the good
deed of a recital of a Sinners Prayer.
found at https://groups.google.com/forum/m/?hl=en#!topic/alt.christnet.calvinist/EnaFkzwOeJE
Pate is a Co-Redeemer
... all the while you are trying to get faith from Jesus to become saved ?
This scheme of Co-Redemption gospels put the cart before the horse. They've reversed the order of events given in Jn.3:3 and Acts 13:48.
The Co-Redeemers are literally saying... you, the unbeliever, first perceives the kingdom of God and then, cause yourself to be born from
above because you defaulted to your denominational traditions, recited the Sinners Prayer and with sincerity, and because of your perception
did the right thing by denominational traditions and placed a faith you are trying to get from Jesus, in Jesus... all the while you don't
have faith to place in Jesus. Mt.17:17 is as clear as day declaring man, in his unredeemed state of being and in the flesh has no faith to
place in Jesus Christ.
Man, in his unredeemed state of being, is " faithless." He has no faith to place in Jesus Christ being he is an unbeliever. And, one of
the key lies of Co-Redemption is that their scheme of placing a faith you do not have in Jesus is not a work all the while the Word of God
says plainly that faith * Is * a work, 1 Thes.1:3. How is it then that Co-Redeemers claim you have a faith to place in Jesus when God says
you certainly do not ? How come the Co-Redeemers, insisting the Bible is their " only " rule of faith and practice, is not believed by
them ? These people call God a liar every time they suppose placing a work of faith in Jesus, saves.
There is only " one faith," Eph.4:5, in all of God's creation from which knowing God in the saving sense of full deliverance from the
bondage to Satan, sin and death is had, and that is the faith of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. This is the faith that is " not of
yourselves " spoken of in Eph.2:8,9. And, because the Living God is not of " this world," Jn.8:23, neither is His faith of this world.
How is it that the Co-Redeemers tell you it's their faith they've placed in Christ to become saved when they're trying to obtain what they
call " saving faith " * from * Christ ? Reversing Jn.3:3 is one of their favorite tactics to sway people into thinking a person can save
themselves... and by works at that. Shame on the Co-Redeemers.
Nonetheless, reducing the Lord Jesus Christ to one half participant in salvation is what Co-Redemption is all about. Man co-operates with
Christ's half finished work of redemption and the two create one saved soul when man invites Jesus into his heart. He did His part and man
must do his part or the Sinners Prayer simply doesn't avail anything. Water baptism fits into the same salvation by works category...
Creation administered by a created being results in salvation while casting off the flesh of the foreskin results in salvation. And they
claim the Bible is their only rule of faith and practice ?
How far off the path can a denomination be to actually tell people they can save themselves by their denominational recital of a Sinners
Prayer ? There is no likeness in Holy Scripture when comparing the Scripture to what comes out of the mouths of church fathers who are only
too glad to redefine the work of Christ so that they get part of His glory for the saving. How come we are told Christ does the seeking and
the saving in Lk.19:10 and the Co-Redemption gospels counter this doctrine by saying you, the individual, must do something positive out of
your own free will and choose Christ as your Lord and Savior ? How come the Co-Redeemers reject Ro.10:20 which clearly states that those
* Not * seeking for God find Him ? " Salvation belongs to the Lord," Ps.3:8... not " belongs to man co-operating with the Lord, " Jn.6:44.
Interestingly enough, the word translated " draw " in this passage is really better translated " drag " as it is in Jn.21:6. The
Co-Redeemers think they flock to Jesus with abundant free will all the while the Word of God declares the exact opposite.
The Co-Redeemers are speaking from their own fleshly hearts to speak contrary to Ro.3:10 and following.. they claim they understood the
Gospel of Jesus Christ, sought for God via their denominational traditions and by these traditions confessed to Christ with their Sinners
Prayer. Christ is then a failure except for their magic Sinners Prayer which God can't save without hearing.
There must be a " falling away " before the End comes. Satan must take his seat in the churches by casting Jesus Christ out of it, 2
Thes.2. The churches of Christendom, under the strong delusion sent down from God upon them, is ever so obvious in their insistence that
Christ died for every last man on earth but only the Sinners Prayer can save you or some other work you must do before His dying in your
place has any saving benefit. His redeeming the whole world in their preaching of Universal Atonement resulted in no one being filled with
the Holy Spirit, which is inseparable from genuine redemption, Eph.1:13,14, and only those smart enough to recite the Sinners Prayer ever
benefits from their good deed which not only manifests Jesus Christ as a failure but also manifests Him as reachable only through the good
deed of a recital of a Sinners Prayer.
found at https://groups.google.com/forum/m/?hl=en#!topic/alt.christnet.calvinist/EnaFkzwOeJE
The Gospel refutes you and your false doctrine.
"God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16.
Saying the sinners prayer is something that you do. We are not saved by what we do. We are saved by what Christ did.
beloved57
Well-known member
You don't believe Jn 3:16 nor understand it since you don't believe the Gospel, Tulip!
Brother Ducky
New member
I certainly would not presume to answer for AMR or anyone for that matter. Personally, I see in the question an order of salvation [Ordo Salutis] that some might disagree with. I am sure that it is not intended to be a "gottcha" question, so without necessarily agreeing on the chronology I infer from the question: God saved me on October 31, 1977 around 4-5 AM [I did not check the clock; it was early.]
I am not sure, however that it is necessary [or possible] for all Christians to absolutely know the time of their salvation. For some, especially those who were raised in the Church, I suspect their faith comes in a way that they may have to look back and say that they now really believe the stuff of God.
Shalom,
Rick
How did God save you? How did you receive the Holy Spirit?
Brother Ducky
New member
God changed my heart from stone to flesh so I could believe.