Why America Loves War

[PureX]

No one wants to admit it, but Americans love being at war.

War gives people meaning - something worth dying for. It's 'exciting'. Even for those who aren't directly involved in the fighting. Parents brag about how their kids went to fight. Everyone makes heroes of them. And no one pays much attention to the reasons for the war, or how many people have been killed, and maimed, on both sides.

The fact is that a lot of people like war. On both sides, regardless of the reasons. The rich, who obviously like making money, will make lots more of it from a war. The poor, who's lives are already miserable, and who are looked down on, get jobs, and some respect, and a chance to see the world for joining in the fight. The middle classes, who are generally bored silly with their work-and-consume cycle of life, get a shot at some kind of "glory". And the politicians all get to show how tough they are, and how much they love their country without risking anything of themselves. And of course no one dares question them in wartime.

So everyone gets something they want from a war. And the few who know better had better not speak out. Or they'll be labeled an 'enemy' collaborator and treated accordingly. It's why warfare never ends. And it's why neither side is ever really "righteous", and why neither side ever really wins.

 

[chrysostom]

what a pathetic post

do you think all these people are trying to get into our country because they love war?

 

[Morpheus]

what a pathetic post

do you think all these people are trying to get into our country because they love war?

I expected better of you. For someone who boasts of their philosophical prowess that was a pretty lame jump. People don't want to come here because they love war; they want to come here for economic improvement and educational opportunity for their children. War has just been an economic tool, and the poor are, in economic terms, industrial consumables similar to welding rod, pump seals or motor brushes. There is a cost involved, but in a cost/benefit analysis it is considered acceptable. I framed it in economic terms since nearly all wars are fought for economic reasons. The "noble" excuses are marketing to sell the war to the U.S. public. When you hear the term U.S. interests it translates U.S. business interests. Our military is generally a proxy army for the uses of corporations having difficulties with foreign governments. Our children die to protect their exploitative practices overseas.

 

[Word based mystic]

I don't know where to begin. So I won't

lol

 

[chrysostom]

I expected better of you. For someone who boasts of their philosophical prowess that was a pretty lame jump. People don't want to come here because they love war; they want to come here for economic improvement and educational opportunity for their children. War has just been an economic tool, and the poor are, in economic terms, industrial consumables similar to welding rod, pump seals or motor brushes. There is a cost involved, but in a cost/benefit analysis it is considered acceptable. I framed it in economic terms since nearly all wars are fought for economic reasons. The "noble" excuses are marketing to sell the war to the U.S. public. When you hear the term U.S. interests it translates U.S. business interests. Our military is generally a proxy army for the uses of corporations having difficulties with foreign governments. Our children die to protect their exploitative practices overseas.

then what are you doing here?

 

[Rusha]

I don't believe America *loves* war, but rather just accepts it as an unfortunate but necessary part of life.

Much like a schoolyard full of kids, the choice is to either be beaten and watch others be beaten or strike back and instill enough fear or pain that the instigator will think hard before attacking again.

That is not an endorsement stating that it is okay to instigate wars, but rather an endorsement that the goal should be to finish them.

 

[Morpheus]

then what are you doing here?

I was born here and couldn't convince my wife to move away from family, and now grandkids and great-grandkids. Our eldest moved to Germany in his late 20s, has lived there for 14 years and there's no way he's moving back. When he visits here we get along great, but he is reminded how selfish and superficial the culture is here.

So why am I here? My mission is here. I'll go home soon enough.

 

[Morpheus]

I don't believe America *loves* war, but rather just accepts it as an unfortunate but necessary part of life.

Much like a schoolyard full of kids, the choice is to either be beaten and watch others be beaten or strike back and instill enough fear or pain that the instigator will think hard before attacking again.

That is not an endorsement stating that it is okay to instigate wars, but rather an endorsement that the goal should be to finish them.

You don't think that we are the bully in that schoolyard, eating better because we take the weaker kids' lunches? How do others keep us from beating up on them?


http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/International_War_Crimes/Taking_Down_7_Countries.html

 

[Rusha]

You don't think that we are the bully in that schoolyard, eating better because we take the weaker kids' lunches?

No, I don't.

 

[Word based mystic]

bully

bully

You don't think that we are the bully in that schoolyard, eating better because we take the weaker kids' lunches? How do others keep us from beating up on them?


http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/International_War_Crimes/Taking_Down_7_Countries.html

I believe that historically america has gone to war in earlier years reluctantly

after WWII it had no choice but take an active roll in world leadership including WAR.

some decisions were moral intervention
some were anti-communistic support for countries not desiring communism.

some of these wars were supported by economic acquisition of raw materials for a (short) period of time within that country.

Yes america struggled with its borders in earlier years. But other than mexican contesting of land.

Hawaii was the only thieving of statehood. And could be considered an imperialistic acquisition.

Oil for war is a stupid theory.. oil might have been used to help finance the wars in certain countries. But america always (left) and tried to invest in the future infrastructure of that country, with a loss considering our own tax burden.

This country wasn't perfect in moral authority. But in major decisions moral considerations were of major weight.

 

[Morpheus]

I believe that historically america has gone to war in earlier years reluctantly

after WWII it had no choice but take an active roll in world leadership including WAR.

some decisions were moral intervention
some were anti-communistic support for countries not desiring communism.

some of these wars were supported by economic acquisition of raw materials for a (short) period of time within that country.

Yes america struggled with its borders in earlier years. But other than mexican contesting of land.

Hawaii was the only thieving of statehood. And could be considered an imperialistic acquisition.

Oil for war is a stupid theory.. oil might have been used to help finance the wars in certain countries. But america always (left) and tried to invest in the future infrastructure of that country, with a loss considering our own tax burden.

This country wasn't perfect in moral authority. But in major decisions moral considerations were of major weight.

I used to believe that, but the deeper I dug through historical subtleties the more the pattern of intervention to support business interests became evident. You mentioned those cases where socialist regimes came in, but more often than not those socialist regimes won free elections. They typically were replacing oppressive regimes; and after they were overthrown either with us financing military coups, or by direct intervention, new U.S. friendly oppressive regimes moved back in. One example of this are Chilean President Salvador Allende, who was overthrown by the U.S. backed military junta led by Augusto Pinochet who ended elections and began a 25 year reign of terror, still with our support. Another example, off the top of my head, was Haiti. For 29 years they were brutally ruled by first Papa Doc Duvallier, then Bebe Doc, his son. Eventually he was overthrown, then Catholic priest Jean-Bertrand Aristide became president after winning decisively in an open election. He began several reforms, followed by a series of coups, the first two followed by popular reinstatements. The final coup amounted to U.S. Marines entering the presidential palace and "escorting" him out of the country to be exiled in Africa. Each of the coups were directed by the CIA. That is just a couple examples out of several dozen.

Suggested initial reading is "Killing Hope" by William Blum, a former State Dept. employee. There are more than enough references in the bibliography to keep you busy for years if you're so inclined.

 

[Truster]

''And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword''.

The US is simply a sword in the hand of the Almighty. He uses the wicked to punish the wicked.

 

[PureX]

I don't believe America *loves* war, but rather just accepts it as an unfortunate but necessary part of life.

Much like a schoolyard full of kids, the choice is to either be beaten and watch others be beaten or strike back and instill enough fear or pain that the instigator will think hard before attacking again.

That is not an endorsement stating that it is okay to instigate wars, but rather an endorsement that the goal should be to finish them.

That's the narrative that the war-mongers sell us. Every time. And we jump to it every time. Because the truth is, we want it to be true. It justifies our secret lust for righteous violence.

 

[chrysostom]

no country has given more lives and money to protect this world from nazism, communism, and islamism

your pathetic thread is an insult to all those who gave there life for freedom which you don't understand or appreciate

 

[Bright Raven]

This is a ridiculously stupid post. I think America would be very happy to be at peace.

 

[Truster]

This is a ridiculously stupid post. I think America would be very happy to be at peace.

You must be having a joke. Even the entertainment coming out of the US is mostly violent. The violence in sport is cheered and venerated.

 

[Bright Raven]

You must be having a joke. Even the entertainment coming out of the US is mostly violent. The violence in sport is cheered and venerated.

Ah, we are not talking entertainment. I don't think the loss of life is entertaining.

 

[PureX]

You must be having a joke. Even the entertainment coming out of the US is mostly violent. The violence in sport is cheered and venerated.

It's true. We love righteous violence, a lot. The most common narrative in our culture, by far, is the narrative of annihilating the 'bad guys'. We don't just catch them and hang them; we obliterate them in a hail of gunfire, or obliterate them in huge explosions, or we see them beaten mercilessly, to death, by the 'hero'. We love this stuff! We fantasize about it. We horde guns and wish some "scumbag" would just try and cross us!

We are an insanely violent culture. Our heroes never compromise or negotiate their way through problems with others, they obliterate the opposition in a massive display of violent revenge.

 

[The Berean]

So what is your solution, PureX? :think:

 

[PureX]

So what is your solution, PureX? :think:

What's my solution to what, exactly?