Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[beloved57]

Justified by His Death apart from our believing it !

Justified by His Death apart from our believing it and the Resurrection of Christ from the dead after having died for our sins proves it ! One of the biggect lies in antichrist false religion, it is the distortion of the Blessed Gospel Doctrine of Justification by Faith, not because its not true, but because the distorters of this Truth deceitfully neglect that there is a Justification of the sinners Christ died for before they are Justified by Faith, and has nothing to do with their faith or believing it; which Justification also imutes to them Righteousness,as it is stated here Rom 4:6

Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Imputeth Righteousness without works ! That word works is the greek word ergon and means:


I.business, employment, that which any one is occupied

A.that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking



II.any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


III.an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So this Righteousness was imputed to them without any act, deed, thing done by them, not even with their mind !

In fact this Righteousness is charged to the account of every sinner Christ died for Rom 5:8 before they are born into this world a sinner as well as before they repent and believe the Gospel; This is to say that this Righteousness / Justification had been applied to their account and persons even while they are in reality and actively being sinners, ungodly, and enemies ; and the reason why we know this to be True is because when Christ was raised from the dead, after having been delivered to death for their their sins laid to His charge, upon rising from the dead , it was because God reckoned THEM Justified before Him, Which scripture testifies to here Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

The AMP reads :

25 Who was betrayed and put to death because of our misdeeds and was raised to secure our justification (our acquittal), [making our account balance and absolving us from all guilt before God].

The NASB reads:

25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

 

[beloved57]

Justified by His Death apart from our believing it ! 2

Yes He was raised again because of their Justification, in other words, His Justifcation from their sins and death on their behalf was theirs, since it was their wage of death and sins He died for in the first place, so why would not His Justifcation be theirs also , and so the Spirit of Prophecy regarding Christ says Isa 50:4-9

4 The Lord God hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned.

5 The Lord God hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back.

6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

7 For the Lord God will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.

8 He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me.

9 Behold, the Lord God will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up.

John Gill says of Vs 8-9:

He is near that justifieth me,.... His Father was "near" him in his whole state of humiliation; he left him not alone; he was at his right hand, and therefore he was not moved; and "justified" him from all the calumnies of his enemies, or the false charges they brought against him, and from all the sins of his people that were upon him; these he took upon him, and bore them, and made satisfaction for them, upon which he was acquitted; and which is evident by his resurrection from the dead, by his ascension to heaven, and session at the right hand of God; and by the gifts of the Spirit, extraordinary and ordinary, he received for men, and gave unto them; see 1 Timothy 3:16.

Who will contend with me? being thus acquitted; will the law and justice of God litigate the point with him? they are both satisfied; will Satan dispute the matter with him? he is foiled, conquered, and destroyed; or will the wicked Jews enter the argument with him? wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Yes Christ was raised again because of their Justification ! If we read Rom 4:25 in the NASB its:

25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

Yes, thats why He was raised, because those for whom sins He was delivered had been acquitted of them, and that forever !

The YLT is enlightening as well :

25 who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous.

Thats basically what Paul writes again here Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That word made as in made righteous is the greek word kathistēmi and does mean :

C.to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be

So in line with Rom 4:25, Rom 5:19 can read:

19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall many be declared righteous.

Now, this proves that without a shadow of doubt, that Christ's Resurrection from the dead is proof positive that God reckons all those He died for as Righteous, Acquitted from all sin. His Resurrection proves they are not in their sins as stated here if His resurrection would not have occured 1 Cor 15:17

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

See God given Faith believes that because of Christ's death, and resurrection, those He died for are not in their sins,His death having satisfied God's Law and Justice for them, but if they were not acquitted by His Death, and He did not raise from the dead, Faith has no promise to rely upon ! But the Truth of their acquittal was before their Faith to believe it was !

 

[beloved57]

Justified by His Death apart from our believing it ! 3

The word Justification here in Rom 4:25 is the greek word dikaiōsis and means:


I.the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him


II.abjuring to be righteous, justification

It denotes the acquittal of all for whom Christ died, and abjuring or declaring them to be Righteous !

Its the same word used here too Rom 5:18

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification G1347 of life.

The All men here receive as a Free Gift of Justification of Life, and they did nothing but be sinners and rebellious, its a Gift bestowed upon them simply because of the Righteousness of ONE, The Life Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ !

By them being free from guilt, they have been released from all Divine Punishment. None of these in 2 Pet 2:9

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Not one of them can be one for whom Christ died, it would be impossible, for that would overthrow the Throne of Truth !

All for whom He died have been abjured Righteous, Just, and it has been solely on the success of Christ's Death, and by that alone application of it has been made to their persons and account, even though its not yet known or realized by them.

Now finally, if we deny this Justification before Faith, We also deny the death of Christ for sin before ones Faith, and His resurrection from the dead before ones Faith, which is a terrible delusion to be found in, and at this point in world history, more than likely a fatal one !

 

[Nanja]

The word Justification here in Rom 4:25 is the greek word dikaiōsis and means:


I.the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him


II.abjuring to be righteous, justification

It denotes the acquittal of all for whom Christ died, and abjuring or declaring them to be Righteous !

Its the same word used here too Rom 5:18

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification G1347 of life.

The All men here receive as a Free Gift of Justification of Life, and they did nothing but be sinners and rebellious, its a Gift bestowed upon them simply because of the Righteousness of ONE, The Life Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ !

By them being free from guilt, they have been released from all Divine Punishment. None of these in 2 Pet 2:9

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Not one of them can be one for whom Christ died, it would be impossible, for that would overthrow the Throne of Truth !

All for whom He died have been abjured Righteous, Just, and it has been solely on the success of Christ's Death, and by that alone application of it has been made to their persons and account, even though its not yet known or realized by them.

Now finally, if we deny this Justification before Faith, We also deny the death of Christ for sin before ones Faith, and His resurrection from the dead before ones Faith, which is a terrible delusion to be found in, and at this point in world history, more than likely a fatal one !

TY for an excellent 3 part study on "Justified by His Death apart from our believing it".
May our Lord continue to shower you with His Blessings! ☺


These posts should dispel forever the lie that Christ died for all men without exception.
For scripture is clear that God has reserved an ungodly remnant which have no remission of their sins,
to be punished. It was His Will to deliberately create them that way, to be His vessels of wrath Rom. 9:22.

To deny this Justification before Faith, is the pride of man; his attempt to usurp the Sovereign Will of God
by some action or performance on his own part to acquire salvation.

Yes, I believe that we are so close to Judgment Day right now, that if one is currently under this delusion
that is most-likely where he or she will remain.

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

TY for an excellent 3 part study on "Justified by His Death apart from our believing it".
May our Lord continue to shower you with His Blessings! ☺


These posts should dispel forever the lie that Christ died for all men without exception.
For scripture is clear that God has reserved an ungodly remnant which have no remission of their sins,
to be punished. It was His Will to deliberately create them that way, to be His vessels of wrath Rom. 9:22.

To deny this Justification before Faith, is the pride of man; his attempt to usurp the Sovereign Will of God
by some action or performance on his own part to acquire salvation.

Yes, I believe that we are so close to Judgment Day right now, that if one is currently under this delusion
that is most-likely where he or she will remain.

~~~~~

Amen !

 

[beloved57]

Raised again for/because of our Justification !

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for/because of our justification.

Paul here reveals a profound Truth to believers that very few have the Grace to believe, and thats, all for whom Christ hath been delivered for or because of their sins, upon His Resurrection, the Free Gift of Justification has been applied to them, hence every sinner born into this world as His enemy, as a child of wrath by nature as others Eph 2:3, yet Christ has died for them and risen again for their Justification, they are born into this world discharged from every Sin, Transgression, Trespass, Offence they will ever commit in this world in their flesh through Adam; Their discharge has been APPLIED the milimeter second they enter this world by nature a child of wrath Eph 2:3, their Justification from all things is Just as Valid as Long as Christ Resurrection from the dead is Valid, which is forever, for it is written of Him following His Resurrection for them Rom 6:9

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

Understand, He being raised from the dead [because of their Justification Rom 4:25] dieth no more, so they [whom He was raised for their Justification] can never be charged with any sins that brings forth death Rom 6:23, not even for sins they shall commit as children of wrath by nature as others !

Now this does not mean that they are in the flesh immune to feeling sinful, or confession of sin, for David was a Man who was Justified from all sin by non imputation, but did at times feel and confess his sinfulness Ps 32:1-5

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.

4 For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.

5 I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

However even with that, he and all for whom Christ died are Justified from and acquiited from any and all penalties of it, even from the penalty of unbelief, because ones unbelief and ignorance does not affect or reverse their Justification evidenced by His Resurrection, for its a valid immutable fact while they are unbelieves and enemies and ignorant to the fact of their Justification.

The Testimony of their acquittal by or because of Christ's Resurrection isny changed one iota because of ther unbelief, simply because their Justification is God's Faithfulness to His Son for His Work, not their faith, though it was His Work on their behalf ! The Mercy of Justification is showed to Christ, by applying it to His sinful Seed Ps 89:27-36

27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.

29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.

34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.

36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.

 

[beloved57]

Be careful with being Justified by Faith !

Rom 3:28

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Gal 2:16

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

To be Justified by Faith BEFORE GOD cannot mean and does not mean that a person is Justified BEFORE GOD by their own act of human faith or act of believing, simply because that would equate to being Justified by keeping the Law or by works man does !

Thats because Faith is a doing of the Law Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Faith is a weightier matter of the LAW that ought to have been DONE ! Thats a work, there is no escaping that !

The word done here , the greek word ποιέω (poieō) means works :

Matt 7:22

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done G4160 many wonderful works?

Matt 23:5

But all their works they do G4160 for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

So yes, ones own faith is works or doing the law, something required to have been done !

Now with this in mine, the only biblical and scriptural way for a person to be Justified by Faith[BEFORE GOD] apart from the deeds of the Law as in Rom 3:28

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Is when Faith equates/is regards to Christ's Faith / Faithfulness ! See if it be our Faith, then our Law keeping Justified us before God, but if it is His Faith/Faithfulness, then that is what Justified us before God, take your pick , for it cannot be both ! Either the sinners Law Keeping Justified us before God, or the Saviours Law keeping Justified us before God, because Faith is a work of the Law Matt 23:23 !

 

[beloved57]

Justification is the result of imputation !

Justification is the result of imputation, meaning that all for whom Christ died, since their sins had been charged /imputed to Him, or as The Prophet writes Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has made to light upon Him the guilt and iniquity of us all. AMP

And as a result that is their Justification before God; However the result or fruit of that Justification is New Birth, Regeneration, or Quickening, to be Made Alive by the Spirit, which is an application/communication of that Resurrected Life we have in our Head, Christ making us alive based upon the Justification we have through His Blood, for Life is in the Blood, so Life is communicated to them on the basis of His Blood and Righteousness, which satisfied Law and Justice !

 

[Nanja]

Justification is the result of imputation, meaning that all for whom Christ died, since their sins had been charged /imputed to Him, or as The Prophet writes Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has made to light upon Him the guilt and iniquity of us all.AMP

All the Elect Sheep's sins were imputed to their Great Shepherd, Christ their Head and Surety:
The Lamb Slain, even before the foundation of the world Rev. 13:8 in the Purpose of God 2 Tim. 1:9.
His death alone for them John 10:11, 15, plus nothing, made them Righteous / Justified before God's
Law and Justice Rom. 5:19, because they were in Union with Him also before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4-5.

And as a result that is their Justification before God; However the result or fruit of that Justification is New Birth, Regeneration, or Quickening, to be Made Alive by the Spirit, which is an application/communication of that Resurrected Life we have in our Head, Christ making us alive based upon the Justification we have through His Blood, for Life is in the Blood, so Life is communicated to them on the basis of His Blood and Righteousness, which satisfied Law and Justice !

Amen!

It's a revealing of the Righteousness of Christ imputed to those He died for.
They are given a profound Trust, a Spiritual communication and revealing
of the Work of Christ on their behalf, that they have complete forgiveness of sins
and reside in the Grace and Mercy of God everlastingly: a confirmation in their renewed mind that
they are a Son of God Gal. 4:6! This kind of faith is the fruit and a gift of the Spirit Gal. 5:22; Eph. 2:8.
Only then, as a result, are they able to deeply Love God as He commands:

Mat. 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God
with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

All the Elect Sheep's sins were imputed to their Great Shepherd, Christ their Head and Surety:
The Lamb Slain, even before the foundation of the world Rev. 13:8 in the Purpose of God 2 Tim. 1:9.
His death alone for them John 10:11, 15, plus nothing, made them Righteous / Justified before God's
Law and Justice Rom. 5:19, because they were in Union with Him also before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4-5.





Amen!

It's a revealing of the Righteousness of Christ imputed to those He died for.
They are given a profound Trust, a Spiritual communication and revealing
of the Work of Christ on their behalf, that they have complete forgiveness of sins
and reside in the Grace and Mercy of God everlastingly: a confirmation in their renewed mind that
they are a Son of God Gal. 4:6! This kind of faith is the fruit and a gift of the Spirit Gal. 5:22; Eph. 2:8.
Only then, as a result, are they able to deeply Love God as He commands:

Mat. 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God
with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

~~~~~

Amen !

 

[beloved57]

Justification is the result of imputation !2

The death of Christ for all the seed of Abraham, his Spiritual Seed chosen in Christ before the foundation, results in their Legal Justification, as well and it will be followed by Justification experimentally, what Paul means here 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Justification experimentally or Sanctification of the Spirit follows and is the fruit of Justification Legally by the blood of Christ !

In our above verse Legally we are washed from our sins Rev 1:5; Heb 1:3 also that is Justification in the name of the Lord,

And Sanctified, and by the Spirit of our God is the experimental aspect.

And there is yet another aspect that we shall experience in the future which is Glorification, all of which is the fruit of Christ's death !

 

[beloved57]

If He died for us, we are Justified !

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Understand something, if Christ hath died for us, whether we have belived or not, we are Justified before God from all sin and counted Righteous, by the simple fact that He died; Our Faith is not necessary, our repentance is not required, no type of obedience is needed, Only His was requisite. So if we are one of the ones He died for, automatically, we are Justified before God without any other influence.

Also along with that , God will never lay anything to our charge, which is another way of saying that He will not unto us impute sin, we would be as the Blessed Man her Rom 4:8

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[beloved57]

He was raised again for/because of Our Justification !

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

25 Jesus was ·given to die [handed/delivered over; 8:32] ·for [because of] our ·sins [violations; transgressions], and he was raised from the dead ·to make us right with God [for our justification; or to confirm our justification].EXB

Listen, what man made religion is so ignorant of is this: That Jesus Christ's Resurrection from the dead, was not because of or for His Own Justification of Himself as a private individual, but because of the Justification of all those for whom their offences He was delivered for ! In His Resurrection they have total Justification from all things pertaining to God, that is not in themselves, for in that they are enemies and ungodly and unbelievers, so the Justification of them is based solely upon His Work, by it they receive Justification of Life Rom 5:18.

The Resurrection of Christ is evidence that all for whom He died and rose again in behalf of, that they have been credited with Justification of Life, So He was raised because of their total Justification, No Charge can be Laid against them, even while they are unbelievers Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

33 Who can ·accuse [bring an accusation/charge against] the people God has chosen? No one, because God is the One who ·makes them right [declares them righteous; justifies them]. EXB

 

[beloved57]

Justified freely by His Grace !

Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Many calling themselves believers or christians do make a claim to believe this Truth of " Justification freely by the Grace of God" , but its my privilege to tell ya that they really dont believe it at all ! No they only pretend to in words, but if we examine their Testimony 1 Jn 4:1;Matt 7:20 it is finally discovered that their supposed Justification by Grace freely, in reality is Justification because of their act of faith or belief, but that doesn't qualify to being freely Justified by His Grace !

The word freely is very important here in this solemn declaration of truth, its the word dorean and means :

as a free gift, without payment, freely,something freely done (as gratis), i.e. without "cause"; unearned (undeserved); freely given (without cost) hence not done out of mere obligation or compulsion.

for naught

Now Listen, it cannot be truly freely , without cause, for naught if indeed my act of believing or faith is the real cause, and that is why those who are not Justified remain so, because they did not meet the qualification of exercising faith or belief; So hence, its either freely without cause or its not, cannot straddle the fence here !

Yet Paul explains why its without cause and by Grace, why its a Gift reckoned upon the Justified ones based solely the Redemption that is by Christ's Blood [being Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9]; They were Justified freely by His Grace as a Gift, because Christ's Redemptive Death freed them from the penalty of their sins ! Redemption does that. Lets look at Heb 9:12 to prove this vital point :

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The word redemption here, the greek word lutrósis :

(in the Old Testament: ransoming from imprisonment for debt, or from slavery, release from national misfortune, etc.), liberation, deliverance, release. redemption from the penalty of sin:

Yes Redemption from the penalty of sin, equates to Justification from all sin, and that freely solely by the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus, meaning His Blood Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This verse says the very exact thing as does Rom 3:24 only here forgiveness of sins equals Justification, Justification from the penalty of our sins and forgiveness of them are the same, and is according to the Riches of God's Grace !

All this is True because He, the Lord Jesus Christ, by His Blood shedding Death for them, satisfied all of God's vengeful Law and Justice He rightly had against all their sins against Him, So it was no cause or condition in them that influenced God to Justify them freely by His Grace, the cause was solely in the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ in their stead.

So lastly again, if we say that we believe in being Justified freely by His Grace, and yet at the same time make our act of faith to be the condition and cause why God Justified us, them we do lie and believe not the Truth, we don't believe the Truth of being Justified freely by His Grace as presented in Rom 3:24 or Titus 3:7 for that matter where it reads Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[beloved57]

God does indeed justify the ungodly. 1 John 2:2 says "ours" meaning the church, but his sacrifice also covers "the whole world."

But you mustn't forget you must repent and believe in Him otherwise what then? I feel like you may be someone who believes in predestination. But the word states it in such a way that Jesus predestined the world to salvation in Him. He had this planned before the foundation of the world that He would save humanity and they would stop their evil doing, imitate Christ and believe.

Did you understand post 254 ? Please review the points i made with me !

 

[MaxGrit]

God does indeed justify the ungodly. 1 John 2:2 says "ours" meaning the church, but his sacrifice also covers "the whole world."

But you mustn't forget you must repent and believe in Him otherwise what then? I feel like you may be someone who believes in predestination. But the word states it in such a way that Jesus predestined the world to salvation in Him. He had this planned before the foundation of the world that He would save humanity and they would stop their evil doing, imitate Christ and believe.

Umm.. It's in the Bible. The only way to get saved is being elected to salvation.

And it is not talking about the whole world but individuals.

 

[MaxGrit]

I don't believe in the theory of unconditional election. Calvinism insists on limited redemption. The bible does say "God desires all men to be saved" 1 Timothy 2:4.

Would there be any reason for the servants of God to preach the gospel in this world if such a theory were true?

If you are referring to Jacob and Esau I find calvinists decontextualize and stretch the analogy a bit too much, it's fundamentally flawed.

I find a belief like this makes god into a god of fate. It also makes god partial where his character should be impartial.

I DO believe people are elected in Christ, of course. Through faith.

That is what the Bible says about the character of God.

That all is all the elect. All the saints.
Obviously all is not everyone who ever lived.

Do you think God is sovereign?

Is God obligated to grant mercy to all sinners? Is he obligated to grant mercy to anyone at all?

 

[MaxGrit]

Do you love man more? Or do you love God more?

 

[Nanja]

Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Many calling themselves believers or christians do make a claim to believe this Truth of " Justification freely by the Grace of God" , but its my privilege to tell ya that they really dont believe it at all ! No they only pretend to in words, but if we examine their Testimony 1 Jn 4:1;Matt 7:20 it is finally discovered that their supposed Justification by Grace freely, in reality is Justification because of their act of faith or belief, but sorry that doesn't qualify to being freely Justified by His Grace !

The word freely is very important here in this solemn declaration of truth, its the word dorean and means :

as a free gift, without payment, freely,something freely done (as gratis), i.e. without "cause"; unearned (undeserved); freely given (without cost) hence not done out of mere obligation or compulsion.

for naught

Now Listen, it cannot be truly freely , without cause, for naught if indeed my act of believing or faith is the real cause, and that is why those who are not Justified remain so, because they did not meet the qualification of exercising faith or belief; So hence, its either freely without cause or its not, cannot straddle the fence here !

Yet Paul explains why its without cause and by Grace, why its a Gift reckoned upon the Justified ones based solely the Redemption that is by Christ's Blood [being Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9]; They were Justified freely by His Grace as a Gift, because Christ's Redemptive Death freed them from the penalty of their sins ! Redemption does that. Lets look at Heb 9:12 to prove this vital point :

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The word redemption here, the greek word lutrósis :

(in the Old Testament: ransoming from imprisonment for debt, or from slavery, release from national misfortune, etc.), liberation, deliverance, release. redemption from the penalty of sin:

Yes Redemption from the penalty of sin, equates to Justification from all sin, and that freely solely by the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus, meaning His Blood Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This verse says the very exact thing as does Rom 3:24 only here forgiveness of sins equals Justification, Justification from the penalty of our sins and forgiveness of them are the same, and is according to the Riches of God's Grace !

All this is True because He, the Lord Jesus Christ, by His Blood shedding Death for them, satisfied all of God's vengeful Law and Justice He rightly had against all their sins against Him, So it was no cause or condition in them that influenced God to Justify them freely by His Grace, the cause was solely in the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ in their stead.

So lastly again, if we say that we believe in being Justified freely by His Grace, and yet at the same time make our act of faith to be the condition and cause why God Justified us, them we do lie and believe not the Truth, we don't believe the Truth of being Justified freely by His Grace as presented in Rom 3:24 or Titus 3:7 for that matter where it reads Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Right, then it's not God's Grace at all, but a work they do Eph. 2:8-9.

There is no condition a person can meet or perform, and that includes believing with the mind
something about Christ, that can result in him being a recipient of God's Grace.

Election of Grace precedes Justification, Salvation by Grace.
Those who are justified were chosen in Christ, and given His Grace before time.

Eph 1:4-7 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us
unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

Right, then it's not God's Grace at all, but a work they do Eph. 2:8-9.

There is no condition a person can meet or perform, and that includes believing with the mind
something about Christ, that can result in him being a recipient of God's Grace.

Election of Grace precedes Justification, Salvation by Grace.
Those who are justified were chosen in Christ, and given His Grace before time.

Eph 1:4-7 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us
unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

~~~~~

Amen !