Whiny Atheists

[fool]

Not a bit, does it bother you that its already been declared ok to say in God we trust from the government and certainly legal unlike that you thought?

Don't waste your time telling me what I think, I already know and you have no clue.

 

[fool]

Whataburger says "In God we Trust" on its buildings, i wonder if atheists eat there?

I might if it fits my appetite and I'll have no qualms with it as I only owe the Truth to those worthy of it.

 

[Angel4Truth]

They are as legal as the phrase on our federally issued legal tender.

Don't waste your time telling me what I think, I already know and you have no clue.

I didnt tell you what to think, did your forget your own words?

They are as legal as the phrase on our federally issued legal tender.

So not at all.

In the meantime, you might want to read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aronow_v._United_States

The Court ruled:

"It is quite obvious that the national motto and the slogan on coinage and currency 'In God We Trust' has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion. Its use is of patriotic or ceremonial character and bears no true resemblance to a governmental sponsorship of a religious exercise. ...It is not easy to discern any religious significance attendant the payment of a bill with coin or currency on which has been imprinted 'In God We Trust' or the study of a government publication or document bearing that slogan. In fact, such secular uses of the motto was viewed as sacrilegious and irreverent by President Theodore Roosevelt. Yet Congress has directed such uses. While 'ceremonial' and 'patriotic' may not be particularly apt words to describe the category of the national motto, it is excluded from First Amendment significance because the motto has no theological or ritualistic impact. As stated by the Congressional report, it has 'spiritual and psychological value' and 'inspirational quality.'"[1]

also asking "does it bother you" in no way can be construed as telling you what to think, thats called a question.

 

[WizardofOz]

Atheists complain about today’s prayer vigil​

Today’s Community Prayer Vigil, that the Ocala Police Department is urging citizens to support, has atheists upset. This is a community vigil, not an Ocala Police Department, or City of Ocala vigil. Ocala Post has received more than a dozen “anonymous” hate e-mails from local individuals claiming to be atheist requesting the announcement from the Ocala Police Department be removed. Citing separation of church and state, the e-mails claim it is a violation of the United States Constitution for a law enforcement agency — or any government agency — to be involved a prayer vigil. According to e-mails received by Ocala Post, if an individual citizen organized the prayer vigil, there would be no complaints.

More

:allsmile: This is getting ridiculous

Thank you Angel4Truth

 

[Angel4Truth]

Atheists complain about today’s prayer vigil​

Today’s Community Prayer Vigil, that the Ocala Police Department is urging citizens to support, has atheists upset. This is a community vigil, not an Ocala Police Department, or City of Ocala vigil. Ocala Post has received more than a dozen “anonymous” hate e-mails from local individuals claiming to be atheist requesting the announcement from the Ocala Police Department be removed. Citing separation of church and state, the e-mails claim it is a violation of the United States Constitution for a law enforcement agency — or any government agency — to be involved a prayer vigil. According to e-mails received by Ocala Post, if an individual citizen organized the prayer vigil, there would be no complaints.

More

:allsmile: This is getting ridiculous

Thank you Angel4Truth

Yes, totally ridiculous.

 

[gcthomas]

Atheists complain about today’s prayer vigil​

Today’s Community Prayer Vigil, that the Ocala Police Department is urging citizens to support, has atheists upset. This is a community vigil, not an Ocala Police Department, or City of Ocala vigil. Ocala Post has received more than a dozen “anonymous” hate e-mails from local individuals claiming to be atheist requesting the announcement from the Ocala Police Department be removed. Citing separation of church and state, the e-mails claim it is a violation of the United States Constitution for a law enforcement agency — or any government agency — to be involved a prayer vigil. According to e-mails received by Ocala Post, if an individual citizen organized the prayer vigil, there would be no complaints.

More

:allsmile: This is getting ridiculous

Thank you Angel4Truth

The Mayor has muddied separation waters by emphasising a City inviovement, telling complainer:

"There is nothing in the constitution to prohibit us from havingthis vigil. Not only are we not canceling it we are trying to promote it and have as many people as possible to join us. We open every council meeting with a prayer. And we end the prayer in Jesus name we pray. Our city seal says “God be with us” and we pray that he is and us with him"​

(my emphasis)

He says we/us an awful lot when referring to the vigil. Isn't there at least a case to answer?

 

[Angel4Truth]

Group Demands Removal of ‘God Bless the Military’ Sign Over Religious Reference

A group that seeks to separate God from the military is demanding the relocation or removal of a sign at a Marine base in Hawaii that asks God’s blessing on the Armed Forces.

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) sent an email this week to Col. Sean Killeen, the commanding officer of Marine Corps Base Hawaii, to take issue with a sign near the marina that reads, “God bless the military, their families, and the civilians who work with them.” It was reportedly erected following the September 11th attack of 2001.

Blake Page of MRFF asserts that the sign is a violation of the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution, which reads, “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” He is demanding that the sign either be moved to the chapel or removed altogether.

“This sign is a brazen violation of the No Establishment clause of the Constitution, as it sends the clear message that your installation gives preference to those who hold religious beliefs over those who do not, and those who prefer a monotheistic, intervening God over other deities or theologies,” Blake wrote in the email to Killeen.

“We recognize the value that religious activity brings to the lives of many,” he continued, “however, this sign is not in keeping with the time, place, and manner restrictions required by law [or] for any military commander to bolster religious principles through the official authority given to their rank and position.”

Capt. Timothy Irish told the Marine Corps Times that the matter is currently under review.

“[Killeen] has tasked his staff with researching the origin of the sign and its compliance with existing regulations. The Base Inspector’s Office is reviewing its files to see if there have been any complaints in the past,” he said. “MCBH will exercise due diligence to ensure compliance with existing regulations and law, including the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution.”

But retired Chaplain (COL) Ron Crews, who now serves as the executive director of Chaplain Alliance for Religious Liberty, says that MRFF is misinterpreting the Constitution as it does not require that government refrain from ever mentioning God.

“Only someone with a great misunderstanding of the First Amendment or an axe to grind against religion would claim that such a slogan poses a threat or is in any way unconstitutional,” he said in a statement on Friday. “The real threat is posed by those who want to whitewash any reference to God from public discourse—even ones as innocuous and uplifting as this one.”

“‘God bless our military’ is a slogan little different than the official national motto, ‘In God we trust,’ that appears so publicly on our money, and the courts have repeatedly upheld it,” Crews continued. “From the founding of our country, every president, including President Obama, has called on God to bless America. We hope that Col. Sean Killeen, the base commander, will stand firm and allow the sign to remain.”

 

[gcthomas]

Group Demands Removal of ‘God Bless the Military’ Sign Over Religious Reference

In your post: "He is demanding that the sign either be moved to the chapel or removed altogether."

Why shouldn't the religious reference be placed at the chapel? Is the chapel the wrong place for it?

 

[aikido7]

I have noticed a growing trend among humanist organizations in their taking legal action against religious expression. I have created this thread in order to offer examples of this type of activism in an effort to expose the whiners and what they are whining about. Though most examples will be of whiny anti-theists rather than your run-of-the-mill atheist, the more prevalent word association told me it was better to title it as I did.

Feel free to post your own examples of atheists/anti-theists whining, even if it is a post from this forum. Some of our resident atheists have been known to whine as well.

This thread is in the politics sub-forum as it's not intended to debate theology but it will undoubtedly go there, which is fine with me.

A lot of what got me focused on this topic began with the organization called American Atheists joined with four New Yorkers to sue over a t-beam resembling a cross' inclusion in the WTC Memorial. A healthy debate ensured on TOL here.

Side note from that thread: Silent Hunter owes me a one month break but he did get a bit slippery with his Supreme Court requirement. I guess he wasn't as convinced as he made it seem.

If you're an atheist feel free to defend the action (or not) and explain why you feel it is justified (or not) to whine about these issues.

My 10,000 TOL post. Yay me.

For centuries, atheists were vastly out-numbered by Christian believers. They held their tongues and stayed silent. Now, of course, it is much different.

But they still feel marginalized and criticized. So they are going to "whine."

Christians have also assumed the mantle of "victimhood." They believe they are being marginalized and criticized as well.

This is what we do at times: we whine. All of us.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Christian Coach Under Investigation for Post-Game Prayers

A football coach in Washington is under investigation for praying on the field after games.

Joe Kennedy, the assistant head coach for the varsity team at Bremerton High School and the head coach for the junior varsity team, takes time after each game to pray at the 50-yard line. According to reports, Kennedy prays of his own volition and sometimes prays alone, but there are also instances when students and players decide to join him.

“I never asked anyone. They just all showed up one day and the next thing I know, the other team was showing up with us,” he told reporters this week. “I spent 20 years in the Marine Corps, and it’s been about protecting the freedom of other people. It’s about the freedom, and people can believe whatever they want.”

“I’m just exercising my right,” Kennedy continued. “The competition is over and I just thank God for every one of these young men that are out here.”

While it is not known how the matter turned into an investigation, a letter from Superintendent Aaron Leavell outlines that the district is currently reviewing how “staff are trained to learn about and comply with” its religious activities policy.

“The Bremerton School District respects and has an obligation to protect the rights of all students and staff, including those fundamental rights protected by the First Amendment,” he wrote.

The policy states that “[a]s a matter of individual liberty, a student may of his/her own volition engage in private, non-disruptive prayer at any time not in conflict with learning activities. School staff shall neither encourage nor discourage a student from engaging in non-disruptive oral or silent prayer or any other form of devotional activity.”

The investigation is set to conclude this week. In the meantime, a support rally has been set for Friday at Bremerton High School.

Some parents state that they don’t see a problem with the prayers as long as students are not required to join Kennedy.

“It’s American. It’s freedom of religion, not freedom from religion,” one parent told local television station KING. “If they don’t like it, they can [choose] not to participate.”

Weird how its getting to be a nearly daily thing isnt it.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Texas Man Says Landowners Will Arrest City Officials if They Try to Remove Jesus Sign

HAWKINS, Texas — A Texas man is fighting back against efforts to remove a “Jesus” sign from a plot of land that he asserts is privately, not publicly owned, and is warning that the landowners will arrest anyone who tries to remove the sign.

The situation centers around a sign in Hawkins, Texas that reads, “Jesus welcomes you to Hawkins,” which first came under fire from the Wisconsin-based Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF) this past June. The atheist organization sent a letter to city officials asserting that the sign runs afoul of the U.S. Constitution.

“It is inappropriate and unconstitutional for the City of Hawkins to display the sign … because it conveys both a government preference for religion over nonreligion, and prefers Christianity over other religions,” the letter, written by attorney Sam Grover, read. “The display of religious messages on public property violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, which prohibits public grounds from advancing, supporting or promoting religion.”

FFRF also told the city in the correspondence that leasing the land to a private organization would not cure its concerns.

“Public land cannot legally be gifted to a religious organization so that it can raise or maintain a religious advertisement,” it said. “Moreover, gifting the land would not change the appearance of government endorsement of the religious message. The sign would still appear to be on public property, and given the sign’s history, a reasonable observer would consider the sign to be government speech.”

Mayor Will Rogers rebuffed FFRF’s demands for removal of the sign.

“They (FFRF) scare you into believing there’s a boogie man, and we’re going to get you,” he told Raw Story. “They want God and Jesus out of our life. I mean that’s what the bottom line is.”


Rogers said that the sign was the idea of private citizens—including himself as he was not an elected official at the time—and was privately paid for by the Chamber of Commerce, although it was approved by city council.

Last month, the city attorney reviewed the situation and concluded that the sign sat on private property belonging to Crowley Funeral Home. However, as independent contractors contrarily determined that the sign is on public property, city council voted this week to remove the sign.

But doubt still remains that the property is public. Mark McDonald, a trustee at Jesus Christ Open Altar Church, told local television station KYTX that he met with a surveyor who agreed with the city attorney that the land is private.

“In no case is the tract owned by the city of Hawkins and no part of the street is owned by the city of Hawkins,” McDonald said.

He told the outlet that his church is in the process of buying the land, and that if city officials attempt to remove the sign, the landowners will have them arrested. McDonald says that the transfer of ownership should be official by October 25th.

In the meantime, the group Oath Keepers has been standing guard to protect the sign since Friday following alleged threats of vandalism.

 

[Jose Fly]

Let's see...

However, as independent contractors contrarily determined that the sign is on public property, city council voted this week to remove the sign.

So the city hires someone to look into it, that person says it's on city property, and the city council votes to remove the sign. Sounds to me like that's how government is supposed to work.

Mark McDonald, a trustee at Jesus Christ Open Altar Church, told local television station KYTX that he met with a surveyor who agreed with the city attorney that the land is private.

??????? So some guy at a church says "I know this guy, and he says the city is wrong"? Who cares? That's not how these issues are settled.

In the meantime, the group Oath Keepers has been standing guard to protect the sign since Friday following alleged threats of vandalism.

Sheesh....these far-right armed Christian groups are spoiling for a fight, aren't they? The same group also said they are there to prevent anyone, including the city government, from removing the sign. Funny how this works....an armed Christian group using the threat of violence to prevent a local government from carrying out its business? No problem! Now imagine how the same Christiannews would be covering this story if it was an armed Muslim group using the threat of violence to prevent a local government from carrying out its business? Gee, do you think the word "terrorists" would be used a bit? :think:

 

[Aimiel]

I'll never forget the funniest thing I've ever seen: we were walking to the Capitol steps in Washington D.C., to pray, early in the morning, just before the start of the Stand in the Gap rally put on by Promise Keepers. We got off the subway, walking towards the mall there was a booth on the street with N.O.W. posters and they had printed large banners with quotes on them from TV evangelists whom they were trying to defame to squelch our spirit and that of any believer. The men (there were about fifty of us from the church I attended at the time) were walking together in the street since it was cordoned off and as we read the banners we started laughing. Their quotes were word-for-word what the TV preachers had 'said' but they didn't realize that they were also Scripture, Word-for-Word. They couldn't understand how everyone that walked by their booth was having the same reaction. It was just too funny.

 

[Angel4Truth]

LOL residents in hawkins have the signs up all up and down the streets in their yards:

http://www.kltv.com/story/29382426/jesus-welcomes-you-to-hawkins-signs-multiply-across-city

Excellent response!

 

[ok doser]

Christian Coach Under Investigation for Post-Game Prayers



Weird how its getting to be a nearly daily thing isnt it.

rumor has it that it's a necessary evil in order to prevent us from enacting sharia law, or revisiting the thirty years war, or allowing incas to cut their victims hearts out in their backyards in suburbia

 

[aikido7]

LOL residents in hawkins have the signs up all up and down the streets in their yards:

http://www.kltv.com/story/29382426/jesus-welcomes-you-to-hawkins-signs-multiply-across-city

Excellent response!

The Jesus of the New Testament welcomed the destitute, the immigrant, the homeless, the diseased and the marginalized.

 

[ok doser]

The Jesus of the New Testament welcomed the destitute, the immigrant, the homeless, the diseased and the marginalized.

how did He respond to those who rejected God?


'cause this thread's about whiny atheists who reject God

 

[aikido7]

how did He respond to those who rejected God?


'cause this thread's about whiny atheists who reject God

He told his followers to shake the dust off their sandals and go elsewhere.

Your fantasy of a violent and divine ethnic cleanser can be seen in Revelation. Those are the metaphors glimpsed by John of Patmos. They feed on traditional Christians' revenge fantasies and defensiveness at different people and cultures.

They have very little to do with the Jesus in the gospels.

But both atheists and theists can both bow down spontaneously to God's creation. The proof of this fact can be found in the shared word "WOW !!!".

And both atheists and theists tend to literalize Scripture. The theists claim it is factually correct and the atheists claim it is nonsense.

Finally, human beings whine. The behavior does not limit itself to a certain group.

 

[ok doser]

Your fantasy of a violent and divine ethnic cleanser....

which fantasy is that?

 

[aikido7]

which fantasy is that?

A jealous God that will slaughter those we disagree with. A God of punishment.

Not the God of Jesus who desired "mercy, not sacrifice."