Where does the Church Flee

[Just-me:David]

DAQQ said,
Let the ravens and the eagles worry about the air and the clouds but be careful they do not swoop in and steel the seed of the word from the soil of your heart

--The Testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy--

Re 19:10 And thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God:
for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Question: in the face of imminent danger, should we still be as loving to one another as in times when there is no danger? Should I lovingly run away with others into safety as to not cause people to think that I have no Christian love?

 

[daqq]

so off into the wild desert or wild wilderness?

But didn't Jacob's people have someone to lead them?

awesome..

Question: in the face of imminent danger, should we still be as loving to one another as in times when there is no danger? Should I lovingly run away with others into safety as to not cause people to think that I have no Christian love?

Welcome to the board JmD,

Yes, off into the dry-arid places, and all you need now is one or both of the two witnesses to lead you through the desert, a humvee, weapons with ammo just in case you need to lay aside Christian love to protect yourself through the end of the age, and enough rations to outlast a time, times, and the half a time. Perhaps OCTO23 might even be one of your two witnesses and, if that be so, then you need not worry about running into a scapegoat, or Azazel, or the Devil, or the Satan, for as you see he has kindly informed you that they will no longer be there when you arrive. :crackup:

 

[iamaberean]

Where does the Church Flee to during the last 3 1/2 years.

Anyone know ?

Is it Petra or some other unoccupied place ?

Scripture, please. I can't find where church flees.

 

[steko]

Israel is due another wilderness experience.



Eze 20:33 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.


Many more scriptures on this subject available upon request.

Yep! The woman in Rev 12 is Israel.
Christ/Messiah is the man child.

 

[fzappa13]

Yep! The woman in Rev 12 is Israel.
Christ/Messiah is the man child.

Though I have campaigned long and hard to argue for the common fates of Israel and those that would be Christ's there is a very definite point of demarcation here in Rev 12. The subject of Israel's second wilderness experience is worthy of its own thread. Once you become aware of it you'll find bits and pieces of it all across the Bible. The short story is they will retrace their steps from their first experience and once again enter Jerusalem from the East with some very select company just in time for a really nice wedding. A strictly "A list only" affair.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Why on earth would you pick Petra? You are asking the question as though it was futurist. It is not.

It is historic fact that they first went to Petra in 67, but I also think that many of them fled to 'Little Asia' to be near other apostles and Paul, and thus there are the 7 churches of Little Asia of the Rev.

The church fled to Pella in 67 CE, not Petra.
Flight to Pella

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

so off into the wild desert or wild wilderness?

You have no choice.

Tis the operation of God.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Though I have campaigned long and hard to argue for the common fates of Israel and those that would be Christ's there is a very definite point of demarcation here in Rev 12. The subject of Israel's second wilderness experience is worthy of its own thread. Once you become aware of it you'll find bits and pieces of it all across the Bible. The short story is they will retrace their steps from their first experience and once again enter Jerusalem from the East with some very select company just in time for a really nice wedding. A strictly "A list only" affair.

I don't have complete understanding of how it all ties together either.

But I know Israel was a physical example of the spiritual journey of every believer.

 

[fzappa13]

I don't have complete understanding of how it all ties together either.

But I know Israel was a physical example of the spiritual journey of every believer.

You make an interesting point. Over ten years ago I penned a 45 page tome on the matter and, at the end of it, it wasn't clear to me whether the many admonitions to flee applied to the individual as well as a nation either. Like so many of the few that do come to this subject, Rev 12 started the ball rolling for me. Once said ball got rolling it didn't take long to find bits and pieces to this puzzle laying around all over the Bible. One such passage is all the way back in Exodus. Notice verse 11 serves as a transition from history to prophecy … prophecy that bears a striking resemblance to Rev 12.

Ex 15: 4 Pharaoh's chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the Red sea.
5 The depths have covered them: they sank into the bottom as a stone.
6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy.
7 And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble.
8 And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea.
9 The enemy said, I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide the spoil; my lust shall be satisfied upon them; I will draw my sword, my hand shall destroy them.
10 Thou didst blow with thy wind, the sea covered them: they sank as lead in the mighty waters.
11 Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?
12 Thou stretchedst out thy right hand, the earth swallowed them.
13 Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed: thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation.
14 The people shall hear, and be afraid: sorrow shall take hold on the inhabitants of Palestina.
15 Then the dukes of Edom shall be amazed; the mighty men of Moab, trembling shall take hold upon them; all the inhabitants of Canaan shall melt away.
16 Fear and dread shall fall upon them; by the greatness of thine arm they shall be as still as a stone; till thy people pass over, O LORD, till the people pass over, which thou hast purchased.
17 Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance, in the place, O LORD, which thou hast made for thee to dwell in, in the Sanctuary, O Lord, which thy hands have established.
18 The LORD shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[OCTOBER23]

JUST DAVID AND BEREAN

REV 12 says that the Woman will Fly to the Place Prepared by God.

JESUS says that HE goes to Prepare a Place for the Believers.

Rev 3 says that JESUS will keep the Philidelphian Church from the Time of Testing.
(Islam or Christianity)
--------------------------------------

Joh 14:2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so,

I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again,

and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Re 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness,

where she hath a place prepared of God,

that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Re 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write;

These things saith he that is holy, he that is true,

he that hath the key of David, he that opens, (door to the New Jerusalem)

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience,

I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,

which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You make an interesting point. Over ten years ago I penned a 45 page tome on the matter and, at the end of it, it wasn't clear to me whether the many admonitions to flee applied to the individual as well as a nation either.

That is because you were trying to fit it into a futurist time frame instead of accepting that Jesus was referring to the time from 66 CE to 73 CE.

 

[fzappa13]

That is because you were trying to fit it into a futurist time frame instead of accepting that Jesus was referring to the time from 66 CE to 73 CE.

That would be correct.

 

[fzappa13]

Yet another passage concerning this wilderness experience. At a certain point one begins to notice similar locales in these passages. Earlier Edom and Moab, now here the valley of Achor … all points along the path they followed previously. Here we see the fates of those originally called out as God's, and another that was not, here intertwined at a wedding. It is helpful in properly appreciating this passage to know that “Ishi” means “My husband” and “ Baali” means “My Lord”.

... Oh, and "Jezreel" means "The seed of God".

Hos 2:14 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.
15 And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.
16 And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.
17 For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.
19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.
23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

 

[journey]

Many Bible scholars believe that the Church Which is The Body of Christ will be Raptured Home to glory before the beginning of the Tribulation Period. I'm not a Bible scholar, but this is what I believe.

Others believe that the Rapture will be mid-Tribulation, some post-Tribulation, and some believe there will be no Rapture at all.

Many will be Saved during the Tribulation Period, but they will have to endure to the end and refuse the mark of the beast. Many will face beheading for their faith, but many will take the mark of the beast and face eternal damnation.

No, I don't want to debate this. Lengthy study is required to even understand the basics. Here's the Rapture for those who deny it will even happen:

1 Corinthians 15:50-58 KJV 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 KJV 9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-11 KJV 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

Revelation 3:10 KJV Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Latin derivations of the English word "Rapture"

Rapere - to carry off or catch up

Raptura - seizure, kidnapping

Raptus - a carrying off

Rapio - to catch up or take away

 

[iamaberean]

JUST DAVID AND BEREAN

REV 12 says that the Woman will Fly to the Place Prepared by God.

JESUS says that HE goes to Prepare a Place for the Believers.

Rev 3 says that JESUS will keep the Philidelphian Church from the Time of Testing.
(Islam or Christianity)
--------------------------------------

Joh 14:2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so,

I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again,

and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Jesus responding to Peter, not the church. Joh 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.
Joh 13:38 Jesus answered him,

Re 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness,

where she hath a place prepared of God,

that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Who will sit upon a throne? Jesus. Who, then, is the woman? Israel.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Re 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write;

These things saith he that is holy, he that is true,

he that hath the key of David, he that opens, (door to the New Jerusalem)

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience,

I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,

which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Written to church in Philadelphia, not to us. Said nothing about fleeing.

 

[jamie]

Joh 14:2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

The Father's "house" is God's house.

For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17 NKJV)​

In Jesus' day the house of God was the Temple.

Jesus asked, "Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him, how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?" (Matthew 12:3-4 NKJV)

Now we are God's priests and the Father's house which is built on Jesus.

 

[fzappa13]

Before this thread dies altogether here is another passage that would appear to apply to the subject of where the Lord hides those that flee Jerusalem prior to His return.


Isa 16:1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.
2 For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.
3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.
5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

 

[KingdomRose]

Where does the Church Flee to during the last 3 1/2 years.

Anyone know ?

Is it Petra or some other unoccupied place ?

Why do you think that the Great Trib. will last 7 years? Not a chance. The whole reason for the GT is to get rid of this corrupt crazy system of things and all those who want to cling to it. Do you think it will take 7 years for Christ to do that? Not on your life.

Jesus said, in fact, that the days will be cut short. (Matthew 24:22) 7 years is a long time. Do you get that from some poor deluded soul that says that Daniel chapter 9 is talking about the last days? It's not. The seventy weeks refer to what happened when Jesus was on the earth. Do you see in verse 24 that transgression would be terminated? That is what Jesus did when he took all of our sins onto himself on the 'cross.' He gave us the way out of death due to the sin inherited from Adam. Do you see "finish off sin" and "atonement for error"? That is what Jesus did 2,000 years ago. Because of him we can be reconciled to God and escape inherited death.

The rebuilding of Jerusalem took place around 500 years before Jesus came. It can be figured out from Bible chronology, including this chapter of Daniel, just when the Messiah would show up.

The "covenant in force" (verse 27) was the original covenant that Jehovah made with Israel. That covenant that would be kept in force was the privilege that Israel had to be the very first to accept Jesus as the Christ and rule with him in heaven. Jesus was to go to the House of Israel first, and he did that for 3 1/2 years until he died (and rose again), "causing sacrifice and gift offerings to cease," because he was the sacrifice---the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. His disciples continued to preach to the Jews for another 3 1/2 years, and then they went to the nations.

It was fulfilled already. There won't be any rebuilding of the physical Temple, because Christ appeared in the REAL temple in heaven, "not made with hands." (Hebrews 8:1,2; 9:11)

Where do Christians go now, like the Christians of 66-70 A.D.? Where do we flee to? Away from Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion (Rev. 18:4), and away from the worldly political system that is pictured by the Beasts. Jesus said we would not be part of the world. We must honor that statement. (John 17:16)

oly:

 

[heir]

Steko - we Christians are the Church of Philidelphia as in Rev 3 and Rev 12.

:nono: Romans 5:9 KJV, 1 Thessalonians 5:9 KJV

 

[CherubRam]

Where does the Church Flee to during the last 3 1/2 years.

Anyone know ?

Is it Petra or some other unoccupied place ?

Daniel 7:25
He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time. 538 AD - 1798 AD = 1260. And 1776 AD + 350 = 2126 AD.