JAC-
Answer me!
Answer me!
Where Does The Bible Say...? (HOF thread)
- Thread starter JustAChristian
- Start date
JustAChristian
New member
You and I will probably ever agree on anything prior to judgement day. I don't guess that Paul would have ever agreed also if he hadn't seen the Light! Maybe you'll see that same light someday before it is ever too late.
In Christ,
JustAChristian :angel:
philosophizer
New member
And what "steel cables" are those? Some churches may mistakenly say that there requirements for salvation. But there is no reason to generalize their error and apply it to the whole of Christianity. Salvation is free. Take it if you want. In this case the method of taking is believing. Just as the method of taking when a Radio DJ calls and says you won a free prize is driving down to the station. Or wouldn't that be free?
Aimiel
Well-known member
No, since it is not in his hand already, when the DJ tells him how to get his free prize. He'd say that drive is going to 'cost' him, but would probably go down there for even a $10 prize. The value of eternal life, which costs nothing, but requires faith, is kind of like the winner of the lottery, who doesn't expect to get the money the day they announce the winning numbers, who will trust the Lottery Commission enough to wait several weeks, allow them to photograph him shaking hands with officials as they hand him a great big check, and then is told how the money will be sent to his account by electronic transfer. He will trust them, even though he has never seen a penny of the winnings, because they have proven trustworthy. The Lord will allow our faith, patience and character to be tried and proven, allowing us to grow up into Him in all things. We're waiting for our inheritance, and trust The One Who has proven His Faithfulness, and don't mind that faith is a requirement for His Kingdom, having been given faith, from Him.
Zak wants God to come down from Heaven, again, and prove Himself true to His Word all over again, so that he can have 'evidence.' He doesn't realize that God would have waited until photography and the sciences were invented to visit us if He wanted to gain adherents by their 'sight' and not their faith.
Zak wants God to come down from Heaven, again, and prove Himself true to His Word all over again, so that he can have 'evidence.' He doesn't realize that God would have waited until photography and the sciences were invented to visit us if He wanted to gain adherents by their 'sight' and not their faith.
BChristianK
New member
Yup, If you woundn't mind, just a Christian I'd like to continue our dialog.
Grace and Peace
Zakath
Resident Atheist
"Free" should mean just what Christian's claim and non-believers expect - without cost, gratuituous.
The problem that we outsiders face is that every time one of you prattles on about this allegedly "free" gift, you attach a list of requirements that must be fulfilled to
- a) obtain the gift
b) retain the gift
For example, answer the following question to illustrate my point...
"What must I do to be saved?"
:think:
Zakath
Resident Atheist
Are they valid Christian churches, in your opinion?
If so, then why should I give any more credence to some anonymous Internet poster than to established Christian groups?
If it's free then I need do nothing to obtain it or maintain it, right? :think:
If so, then I'm already saved...
Nope. Neither is a "prize" on which you must pay taxes...
I'll repeat a simple universal principle since you seem to have missed it in my earlier post...
TANSTAAFL - Their Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
Anyone who promises you a free gift is trying to sell you something... :chuckle:
Zakath
Resident Atheist
Oh really?
That's not how I read the Bible...
- "Many are called but few are chosen." - Mt. 20:16
"Salvation is of the Jews." - Jn. 14:22
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mk 16:16
He that doubteth is damned." Rom. 14:23
"Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Lk 13:3
According to some, receiving this "free gift" requires baptism; for others it does not.
According to some, receiving this "free gift" requires repentance and changing one's lifestyle; for others it does not.
According to some, receiveing this "free gift" requires that one dedicate one's life to service of an unseen, relatively uncommunicative supernatural being; for others it does not.
For some, it requires acquiring a certain type of "faith" in the existence of something they cannot see, taste, touch, hear, or otherwise personally experience...
:think:
It's all very confusing and contradictory for those of us on the outside desiring to know just what is necessary...
JustAChristian
New member
Like the song says...
Like the song says...
They are wise! :thumb: Like the song says, "two out o' three ain't bad!"
JustAChristian
Like the song says...
They are wise! :thumb: Like the song says, "two out o' three ain't bad!"
JustAChristian
JustAChristian
New member
Z.,
The only answer I could think of that you probably will accept is: Never Sin.
JustAChristian
JustAChristian
New member
Do You Have Saving Faith?
Do You Have Saving Faith?
"But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6 NKJV).
What pleases God? This text teaches us that without faith it is impossible to please God. What are the elements of the faith for which God is looking? This verse and its context answers that question. Saving faith causes one to diligently seek God through Christ. It causes one to understand that one must do the will of the Father without question. Christianity is a service to God by God's will. When He tells us to believe in His will it is a reasonable request. When He tells us to repent and be baptized to wash away our sins, we need not have to rationalize because He is perfect in His wisdom and knows what we must do. Do you want to live in Heaven eternally with God, Christ and the Holy Spirit. If you do then express your saving faith in obedience (Hebrews 5:8-9).
JustAChristian
JustAChristian
Do You Have Saving Faith?
"But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6 NKJV).
What pleases God? This text teaches us that without faith it is impossible to please God. What are the elements of the faith for which God is looking? This verse and its context answers that question. Saving faith causes one to diligently seek God through Christ. It causes one to understand that one must do the will of the Father without question. Christianity is a service to God by God's will. When He tells us to believe in His will it is a reasonable request. When He tells us to repent and be baptized to wash away our sins, we need not have to rationalize because He is perfect in His wisdom and knows what we must do. Do you want to live in Heaven eternally with God, Christ and the Holy Spirit. If you do then express your saving faith in obedience (Hebrews 5:8-9).
JustAChristian
JustAChristian
Aimiel
Well-known member
Salvation Doesn't Cost... It Pays!!!
Salvation Doesn't Cost... It Pays!!!
Salvation Doesn't Cost... It Pays!!!
That's because you're reading It through contrary eyes; looking for something to dispute, something to defend your chosen theology with.
You forgot to put the price by each one. The fact is, none of them are 'requirements,' before salvation is granted (there aren't any), and none of them cost anything. What's your beef?
I believe The Lord, Who said that those that believe upon Him would be saved. That is free, because faith in The Lord has been given, and all it takes is aiming that faith at Him to find Him.
The fact is, it is free, and requires the believer to believe upon The Lord for their salvation only. He doesn't require believers to meet any qualifications, price or steps, only that they believe. The repentance comes from believers who have been changed by His Love, He does not withhold His Love untill something is given. That is why He died while we were still sinners, because He wanted to save us from our sins, not find a way to prohibit us from salvation, but to make the way clear for us to come to Him, just as we are, and obtain eternal life.
To know Him is to love Him. When one encounters Him, one is (more often than not) moved very deeply and drawn closer to Him. Service to Him is not required, but brings many rewards, both in this life and the next.
Without faith, no one will ever please God. We have received from Him the gift of faith, putting it in Him doesn't cost, it pays. Escape from hell, eternal life, mansion in Heaven and joy, unspeakable and full of glory. Not placing faith in God also pays: eternal torment, depression, despair, poor attitude, no help in times of need, no comfort at the loss of a loved one and many days wasted on selfish lusts.
What is necessary is grace. God gives us grace, through the faith that He gives, which is His free gift to us. We need grace to enter Heaven. It is free, but if you don't want it, it won't be forced upon you. It is available to every soul, because there is no cost or obligation, but if you don't want to believe in God, then you'll have no part in Heaven. He's not going to force Himself on anyone. If He were to appear, and bring men under His subjection by His Power, then you'd have something to complain about, but that's not what He is about. He loves you, and wants you to respond to that love. That's all He wants.
Go Aimiel!
Zakath-
"Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead."
That's it. That's all there is. Nothing more.
Have you ever sinned? You have just proven yourself an idiot.
Zakath-
"Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead."
That's it. That's all there is. Nothing more.
philosophizer
New member
The problem "you outsiders" have with that line of thinking is that you reduce the semantics into absurdity in order to claim that there is no such thing as a free gift.
I bet you can't give me any kind of example of what you would consider to be a free gift. There will always be some level of obligation for you to object to, even if it's as simple as moving a couple finger muscles as someone's handing you something.
philosophizer
New member
Valid? Yes. Correct? No. A football team that has never won a game is still a football team.
Are you serious? That must be an awfully funny way to live your life-- ascribing validity only to the opinions of large groups-- the larger the better.
I know what you're saying though. I'm only one person. But Christian groups are also made up of individuals --not all of them with exactly the same view. No one knows it all, and I'm sure I've got a few things wrong too. Through the differences, all the Christian groups have one common thread: salvation comes through Jesus.
Please realize, you are only defeating the semantics. You are not defeating or even touching the concept. By your argument, the word "free" should be stricken from the dictionary. It has no meaning. It has no possible application to us. If you think you are whittling away at faith in God, you are only whittling away at the skeleton of words you have built around it.
You are usually a reasonable man. But in this case, your argument is unreasonable.
Ecumenicist
New member
Zakath,
Even a free gift needs to be accepted. That's all that is required,
logically, scripturally, etc. The gift is offerred freely, unconditionally,
all anyone need do is accept it. Its that simple.
djm
Even a free gift needs to be accepted. That's all that is required,
logically, scripturally, etc. The gift is offerred freely, unconditionally,
all anyone need do is accept it. Its that simple.
djm
JustAChristian
New member
Oops!
Oops!
Z.,
Are you saying you don't have to repent of your sins? Where did you say it, if indeed you did say it?
Guess I hit a sore spot. Sorry!
JustAChristian :chuckle:
Oops!
Z.,
Are you saying you don't have to repent of your sins? Where did you say it, if indeed you did say it?
Guess I hit a sore spot. Sorry!
JustAChristian :chuckle: