Where are your tithes going?
- Thread starter Zakath
- Start date
Zakath said:
Zakath, is it your belief that the feast and related events described by Christ in the parable at the begining of Matt 22 were meant to by Him to be understood as actual events and that this was an instruction from Him on how people should administer criminal justice?
Or is it another portion of Matt 22 that you are referencing?
I can see that parts of that chapter deal with justice--paying taxes for instance. Could you be a bit more specific?
Zakath
Resident Atheist
First of all, I meant the first 14 verses. I should have specified.
I'm merely guessing that the beginning Mt. 22 is the text Taoist was referring to. To me it doesn't really fit the discussion well, but it was the closest thing I could think of... :nono:
That disclaimer made, we'll continue...
I'm merely guessing that the beginning Mt. 22 is the text Taoist was referring to. To me it doesn't really fit the discussion well, but it was the closest thing I could think of... :nono:
That disclaimer made, we'll continue...
I've heard it taught both ways. I am inclined to go with the more apocalyptic viewpoint about a future ingathering since it specifically refers to basileia ouranos (the kingdom of heaven) which, to my understanding, was not a metaphor for any earthly manifestation but was actually referring to YHWH's kingdom...Crow said:
taoist
New member
Hmm.Crow said:
Yes, it's a reference to the genocide in Canaan. No, I don't believe it was a direct command of any god, and certainly not one worthy of worship. Yes, I do believe this is an example of humans exacting a form of barbaric justice in the name of a god.
I told ya once about that conversation with my sister. The one that ended with the taoist saying pretty heatedly, "Everyone's got a god who says it's okay to kill people. Well, it's not!"
But it's understandable in the context of a primitive tribal society. Our context is, thankfully, much different. Demonstrably better, I would say, looking at the progress we've made precisely by abandoning the barbaric customs of the past.
taoist said:
I believe, as your sister did, that it was a specific command of God, but we aren't going to agree there, obviously.
And I remember you telling me about that conversation, but I had forgotten the specifics.
Personally, I think that some of the stuff that passes for justice today is much more barbaric than the scriptural punishments. Tossing people in jail for theft as oppossed to making them work and make restitution to their victims. Tossing murderers in jail and turning them loose in a few years to murder again.
How about tossing people in jail for child molestation for a few years then turning them loose on those who cannot adequately defend themselves again? To me, that's barbaric, and I'm glad that it isn't being done in the name of God.
taoist
New member
Crow,
To me, that's barbaric, and I'm glad that it isn't being done in the name of God.
taoist,
At present, Crow, we have these entities, named in some mad spate of Orwellian excess, Departments of Corrections. When, or maybe just if, they actually become corrective, rather than merely retributive (and about as successful in the latter as the former), we'll have taken the next broad step toward a better civilization. Retreating to biblical penal codes does not form any kind of solution, however. Whatever the answer is, it lies ahead of us, not behind.
More, I believe if we can train a dog to behave in socially acceptable ways, despite the lesser capacity of our canine cousins, we can certainly do the same with our human brothers and sisters. This thought is enough to convince me a solution can be found.
***
Crow,
I believe, as your sister did, that it was a specific command of God, but we aren't going to agree there, obviously.
taoist,
And I don't believe you'd care for what, to me, are the obvious adjectives attachable to such religious beliefs. Everybody learns at their own speed, as unfortunate as it sometimes seems. I take a certain amount of comfort in knowing most christians would boggle at the idea of justifying such an action today.
To me, that's barbaric, and I'm glad that it isn't being done in the name of God.
taoist,
At present, Crow, we have these entities, named in some mad spate of Orwellian excess, Departments of Corrections. When, or maybe just if, they actually become corrective, rather than merely retributive (and about as successful in the latter as the former), we'll have taken the next broad step toward a better civilization. Retreating to biblical penal codes does not form any kind of solution, however. Whatever the answer is, it lies ahead of us, not behind.
More, I believe if we can train a dog to behave in socially acceptable ways, despite the lesser capacity of our canine cousins, we can certainly do the same with our human brothers and sisters. This thought is enough to convince me a solution can be found.
***
Crow,
I believe, as your sister did, that it was a specific command of God, but we aren't going to agree there, obviously.
taoist,
And I don't believe you'd care for what, to me, are the obvious adjectives attachable to such religious beliefs. Everybody learns at their own speed, as unfortunate as it sometimes seems. I take a certain amount of comfort in knowing most christians would boggle at the idea of justifying such an action today.
taoist said:
You can train some dogs. And in some cases, the proclivity for violence is so ingrained that the best you can do is destroy them.
tao, y'all should know by now that I don't get personally perturbed by those particular adjectives. I remove them from the board because they are inappropriate here.
It's not a matter of learning. We have each chosen a different set of values, a different worldview, and while we can agree on some things and get along fairly well considering how different our perspectives are, never the twain shall meet on some issues, and this looks to be one of them.
taoist
New member
Zakath,
Where are your tithes going? ... or offerings for that matter... Are they going to pay for the illegal and immoral activities of your church leaders?
taoist,
Well, just for grins, let's try to answer the OP while Knight's not looking.
:chuckle:
The obvious, moral response to these activities is to change religious orientation. The decision to force humans to vow lifelong celibacy is so outrageously unnatural that the consequences should have been obvious. Defying natural biological law is as foolish as defying gravity, and just as useless.
Where are your tithes going? ... or offerings for that matter... Are they going to pay for the illegal and immoral activities of your church leaders?
taoist,
Well, just for grins, let's try to answer the OP while Knight's not looking.
:chuckle:
The obvious, moral response to these activities is to change religious orientation. The decision to force humans to vow lifelong celibacy is so outrageously unnatural that the consequences should have been obvious. Defying natural biological law is as foolish as defying gravity, and just as useless.
taoist
New member
(tao, y'all should know by now that I don't get personally perturbed by those particular adjectives. I remove them from the board because they are inappropriate here.
Note to lurkers ... Crow did not edit my post as I gave her no reason to do so. I know what board I'm posting.)
Note to lurkers ... Crow did not edit my post as I gave her no reason to do so. I know what board I'm posting.)
Hey fool thanks for calling in!
You sounded great! :up:
You sounded great! :up:
