WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Thanks, good to see you understand what I am explaining, you may find this of interest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJJwQmKJJbw
When is the Sabbath?
- Thread starter WatchmanOnTheWall
- Start date
Thanks, good to see you understand what I am explaining, you may find this of interest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJJwQmKJJbw
Shalom.
Today is Sheni, 9-23. I see that you are interested in when the Sabbath is. The Sabbath is not Saturday. I do not observe Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Rishon, Sheni, Shlishli, Revi'i, Chamishi, Shishi, are evening and morning, followed by Shabbat. I do not follow or observe what you have here presented. I am over 7 minutes through your video and I do not agree with it.
Shalom.
Jacob
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Okay, so I'm not sure now that you understand God's Lunar Sabbath Calendar. When do you think the Sabbath is?
BTW that's not me in the video.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
1. It is reasonable to assume that Jesus kept the Sabbath and therefore the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts must have been common knowledge at this time.
2. After the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD the Jews no longer had a temple to sacrifice in nor a priesthood to do it, as they had all been killed. The Romans virtually killed everyone in Jerusalem and Massada where the rest of the rebels ran to. This left the Jewish population decimated and of the Jews living else where in Israel who had survived, by cow-towing to the Romans, very few return or decided to live in Jerusalem after 70 AD. The Sanhedrin however did mange to largely survive and formed a seat of rabbinic learning in the south of Galilee, where they maintained the practice of keeping the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, New Moons and a Annual Feasts by travelling to Jerusalem each month to sight the new moon.
3. Over the successive generations from 70 AD onwards these traumatic events had forced the Jews to look for sanctuary within the rest of the Roman Empire and beyond, in what was called the Diaspora. They were refugees scattered in small groups and families, struggling to survive in foreign countries where they were more often than not treated as the lowest of the low.
4. Then after the Simon Bar Kokbha revolt between 132 - 135 AD and Emperor Hadrian's violent retaliation which was one of Rome's largest ever military responses to rebellion within the empire, with some 13 legions being sent (only 4 were sent in 70 AD for example). Hadrian then banned all Jews from even being with in eye sight of Jerusalem by pain of death and after this there were even fewer Jews living in Israel. This also meant the Sanhedrin could no longer visually sight the new moon from Jerusalem in order to know when their Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts were, and even though the new moon could be sighted from Jerusalem up to 135 AD this meant nothing to the poor survivors living abroad, as there was no way these monthly sightings could be sent to them quickly enough for them to calculate when the Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts were really meant to be. They could try to sight the new moon from wherever they were but then this would be on different days compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west.
5. Instead the Jews found themselves living in an empire which was being taken over by the new Roman Julian calendar, named after Julius Caesar. This new calendar that first took effect in the province of Rome had started on 1st January 45 BC and this day was named 'Friday' (each of the 7 days of this new calendar was given a new name, named after a Roman god). However, the dates and days before 1st January 45 BC were calculated by the Roman using a completely different ancient Roman calendar, that had an 8 day week, and these 8 days were simply named A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days) and which had been used for hundreds years by the Romans just in the province of Rome. The new Julian calendar's 7 day week was created by Sosigenes the Greek Mathematician and it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar 7 day week, as they were totally separate from each other. It then took about 400 years before all the other countries within the Roman Empire were eventually forced to use the new Julian calendar with it's new 7 day week.
6. As the new Roman Julian 7 day week, which began separately from the ancient Hebrew 7 day week, began to take over the Roman Empire, the early church (that was mainly made up of non-Jews after Peter the first Pope) simply used the new Julian calendar's 7th day (Saturday) as the Sabbath, even though it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar and its reckoning of when the Sabbath was. The Roman Catholic church carried on with this regardless of the fact that the Julian calendar was totally different from the ancient Hebrew calendar.
7. From 135 AD to 321 AD over half a dozen generations came and went, with each generation of impoverished Jews continuing the struggle to survive within the Roman Empire. As each generation lived and worked in these countries that were using the new 7 day Julian week, it meant that more and more Jews were forced to work on their Sabbath, as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar, or face becoming even more impoverished. While they tried to maintain as much of their traditions as possible most could not keep their Sabbaths, New Moons or Annual Feasts on the correct day as calculated by their ancient Hebrew calendar. As said even if they tried to sight the new moon from wherever they were living this would not be on the same day compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west, and more importantly on the day the new moon would be sighted from Jerusalem. As each generation gradually came and went it became harder and harder to NOT fit in with the new Roman Julian 7 day working week and its Saturday Sabbath. Eventually over these generations the ancient reckoning of the Sabbath, as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar was practically lost to history and the Jews living in the Empire gradually accepted Saturday as the Sabbath more and more.
8. Then in 321 AD the Roman Emperor Constantine who hated the Jews (along with most of the rest of the Roman world) changed the day of rest on the new Julian calendar from Saturday to Sunday, this forced the impoverished Jews to either work on what many thought by now was the Sabbath (Saturday) or become even more impoverished. This caused and has since caused even more confusion amongst Christians and Jews as to when the real Sabbath is, as really it has never been on Saturday or Sunday on the Roman Julian calendar but has always been calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar.
9. In response to all this in 359 AD Sanhedrin Rabbi Hillel II in Israel created the new modern Jewish calendar which uses the mathematically calculated Metonic 19 year lunar cycle, that allows Jews to celebrate all of their New Moon Days and Annual Feast Days on the same day no matter where in the world they live (even though half of the time it is a day out compared to the visually sighted new moon from Jerusalem). However, although this gives a good approximation of when the Jewish New Moon Days and Annual Feast are, Hillel appears to have not attempted to try and get the Jews to also follow the original Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. The reason for this was because the Jews who were scattered across the Roman Empire and beyond, were still simply struggling to survive and had become so used to the new Julian calendar and it's Saturday Sabbath, that if they would have tried to have gone back to worshipping on the correct day as reckoned by their ancient Hebrew calendar, it would have placed a further burden on them and put them at risk of being even more persecuted, because taking days off work that were calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar rather than fitting in with the Julian Saturday Sabbath would have caused confusion and more resentment towards them.
10. The Hebrew calendar and it reckoning of when the Sabbath really was drifted from human history to be almost forgotten. This calendar that was once common knowledge to the ancient Hebrews and the authors of the Bible never thought it necessary to explain this calendar in one convenient place, as they never envisaged a time when it would not be used. However, hidden amongst the scriptures of the Bible are many references to the ancient Hebrew calendar and its Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts, which can be sifted out and reconstructed. This is not an easy thing to do however, if it was then more people would know about it but then most people don't even know about all the above information either, so it is understandable if you have never heard about where and how these snippets of scripture explain the ancient Hebrew calendar. Their are various studies on the ancient Hebrew calendar as describes in the Bible and here are a few that are helpful:
https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm
Videos:
“Saturday is the Sabbath” is FAKE NEWS!
35 min long (or faster with the high speed setting):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJJwQmKJJbw
Lunar Sabbaths: Three Months in a Row | Part 1 - The Lunar Sabbath Restored!
9 min long (or faster with the high speed setting):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUxMRBXuaqI
The Creator's Calendar
9 min long (or faster with the high speed setting):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbzFGEfgP_8
15 mins (or faster with the high speed setting):
International Date Line Change: The Sabbath Unchanged by Worlds Last Chance Ministries?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sUyZpM5xls
79 min (or faster with the high speed setting):
Robert-Aaron Richmond explains from scripture how God’s Calendar works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=wJq8tKvnemU
Okay, so I'm not sure now that you understand God's Lunar Sabbath Calendar. When do you think the Sabbath is?
BTW that's not me in the video.
You are promoting the video.
I do not use a Lunar Sabbath Calendar.
The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week. It follows Rishon (first), Sheni (second), Shlishli (third), Revi'i (fourth), Chamishi (fifth), Shishi (sixth), all evening and morning (erev and boker) days.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
You didn't read/understand the OP or the last post I gave you. Or the video/s.
I can't engage with people who won't engage in the OP.
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127707-Are-you-as-fed-up-as-me
Last edited:
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Jacob! I thought you said you understood it and agreed in you post #52 & #82 above?
Now you don't?
I guess I don't know what you are thinking. I do not remember agreeing. Post #82 I said I do not agree with it.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Oh yeah, it was all the Shaloms that made me think that
Shalom.
Zenn
New member
Yes, Thursday was followed by Friday. The days of the week did not change.
My apologies if I'm missing your point.
Perhaps I can look at this at a later date (no pun intended).
Zenn
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Bump!
This was so cryptic that I didn't think a reply was beneficial but I could see that you were kinda agreeing.
https://guidetothebible.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/guide_v2017calendar.pdf
Not only agreeing but been following since the late 90’s...It’s been a trip
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Ahrr yes but when you say following, what exactly are you following? There are so many variants on the true Calendar of God that it is easy to be mislead. So let me ask if you know:
1. The Sabbaths are on days 8, 15, 22 & 29 each lunar month?
2. Plus two additional Sabbaths on Trumpets and Atonement?
3. And there no 'weekly' Sabbaths between any of these Sabbaths?
4. And that the names Monday to Sunday were a complete anathema to the Israelite's?
5. Months begin with the sighting of the crescent waxing moon within a days walk from Jerusalem?
6. Aviv can only be announced (by the Sanhedrin) when the Barley is considered to be ripe enough to be made into fine flour ready for Day 16 Aviv (The Day of First Fruits) to be offered on the Altar of incense?
7. New year is celebrated on Day 1 Month 7 (Tishri) The Day of Trumpets?
8. Shavuot (Pentecost) is on the day after 7 full weeks which is day 9 month 3 (Sivan) and not day 6?
some within this theory have it other days...conjunction or full moon starts...
yes atonement the even to even...unlike other days
... rules of postponements...
and the months too
yes witnesses needed...or conjunction or full moon or
yes barley from a specific site...recalibrating the whole cycle every year...the beginning of the year
sure now for these jews...but not the biblical new year which is in the spring...man his tradition dontcha know...
some calculate seven weeks and then another 7 weeks bumping it further back into summer...and well what if the between days of the new moon vary 1-3 days?
Follow means berrean study and prayer...test all things hold on to what is good...
The woman in revelations does stand on the moon...is it crushed or pedestal?
And yet...I need convincing...sitting on the front row though...taking notes...
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Thanks for your response.
Exodus 12:1-2
1While the Israelites were still in the land of Egypt, the LORD gave the following instructions to Moses and Aaron: 2“From now on, this month will be the first month of the year for you.
This tells us that God was changing which month of the year would now be recognised as the first month of the religious year. Tishri, now month seven, was originally the first month of the year as also shown in the Bible:
Exodus 34:22
“Celebrate the Festival of Weeks [Shavuot/Pentecost] with the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering [Tabernacles] at the turn of the year.”
Although God had set the religious year to start from the month of Aviv, the civil new year continued to begin from the month of Tishri (as it always had done), which now became month seven.
This is still called Rosh Hashanah (Head of the Year). The Jews still celebrate this as they always have done throughout history. It is also called the day of Trumpets as God commanded them to blow trumpets on this day and it was the only new moon day God called a Sabbath. Tishri was when God began to create everything and it was the day Jesus was born too, in fulfilment of this prophetic day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQqo2hFOWwE
Jews traditionally celebrate Shavuot on day 6 of month 3 because they count off 50 days from day 16 month 1 on the Hillel fixed Metonic calendar that uses the Julian rolling week system and most Christians today think Pentecost should be day 6 month 3 as well but originally it was always day 9 month 3 on God’s Calendar. This is because of how the instruction for when Shavuot is, is interpreted:
Leviticus 23:15-16
15 From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, count off seven full weeks. 16 Count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then present an offering of new grain to the LORD.
Notice how God ‘bookends’ the fifty day count instruction with ‘count off seven full weeks’ and ‘up to the day after the seventh Sabbath’. This is because there are sometimes two consecutive months of 30 days that fall between Passover and Shavuot, so that Shavuot can fall either 53 or 54 days after the Feast of First Fruits. So putting the three instruction into context shows the first and most important way to make sure Shavuot is on the right day is to count off seven full weeks and to make sure this is done accurately they would count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath. This ‘belt and braces’ way of counting the days ensured they got the right day for Shavuot after the seventh Sabbath.
Think for yourself which is easier to count and keep track of; 50 days or seven weeks? I know that I can remember the different weeks that have gone by easier than trying to remember the different days. God was just making an easy way to keep track of when Shavuot would be.
Some Christians think this verse is an Achilles heel to the Lunar-Sabbath of God’s Calendar but they’re not reading it as intended and it also means having to ignore dozens of verses about the Lunar Sabbath in both Old and New Testaments, that the Hebrews had been using for over a thousand years before the current seven day rolling week system was invented in 45 BC. They also need to ignore all the historical records about of when Hadrian and Constantine forced the Jews to not use God’s Lunar-Sabbath Calendar. When put into context along with the historical background it makes perfect sense.
Yes but that is wrong.
Yes.
Yes but that is only with the Hillel II calendar (began 359AD).
Yes correct.
Yes two witnesses. But it is from the first sighting of the crescent because you can't observe an 'astronomical' new moon and a full moon is also difficult to accurately clarify and a lunar month is from crescent to crescent.
Yes
No it was always from Tishi. God confirms that the month of Aviv was to become the first month of the new year in Exodus chapter twelve:
Exodus 12:1-2
1While the Israelites were still in the land of Egypt, the LORD gave the following instructions to Moses and Aaron: 2“From now on, this month will be the first month of the year for you.
This tells us that God was changing which month of the year would now be recognised as the first month of the religious year. Tishri, now month seven, was originally the first month of the year as also shown in the Bible:
Exodus 34:22
“Celebrate the Festival of Weeks [Shavuot/Pentecost] with the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering [Tabernacles] at the turn of the year.”
Although God had set the religious year to start from the month of Aviv, the civil new year continued to begin from the month of Tishri (as it always had done), which now became month seven.
This is still called Rosh Hashanah (Head of the Year). The Jews still celebrate this as they always have done throughout history. It is also called the day of Trumpets as God commanded them to blow trumpets on this day and it was the only new moon day God called a Sabbath. Tishri was when God began to create everything and it was the day Jesus was born too, in fulfilment of this prophetic day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQqo2hFOWwE
Jews traditionally celebrate Shavuot on day 6 of month 3 because they count off 50 days from day 16 month 1 on the Hillel fixed Metonic calendar that uses the Julian rolling week system and most Christians today think Pentecost should be day 6 month 3 as well but originally it was always day 9 month 3 on God’s Calendar. This is because of how the instruction for when Shavuot is, is interpreted:
Leviticus 23:15-16
15 From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, count off seven full weeks. 16 Count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then present an offering of new grain to the LORD.
Notice how God ‘bookends’ the fifty day count instruction with ‘count off seven full weeks’ and ‘up to the day after the seventh Sabbath’. This is because there are sometimes two consecutive months of 30 days that fall between Passover and Shavuot, so that Shavuot can fall either 53 or 54 days after the Feast of First Fruits. So putting the three instruction into context shows the first and most important way to make sure Shavuot is on the right day is to count off seven full weeks and to make sure this is done accurately they would count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath. This ‘belt and braces’ way of counting the days ensured they got the right day for Shavuot after the seventh Sabbath.
Think for yourself which is easier to count and keep track of; 50 days or seven weeks? I know that I can remember the different weeks that have gone by easier than trying to remember the different days. God was just making an easy way to keep track of when Shavuot would be.
Some Christians think this verse is an Achilles heel to the Lunar-Sabbath of God’s Calendar but they’re not reading it as intended and it also means having to ignore dozens of verses about the Lunar Sabbath in both Old and New Testaments, that the Hebrews had been using for over a thousand years before the current seven day rolling week system was invented in 45 BC. They also need to ignore all the historical records about of when Hadrian and Constantine forced the Jews to not use God’s Lunar-Sabbath Calendar. When put into context along with the historical background it makes perfect sense.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
delete
Last edited: