When does the biblical day begin?

[jamie]

I suggest that you be a little more circumspect with your choice of words; lest the hapless day arrive when you are forced to eat them.

Does this mean you don't know the penalty for sin or are you just being circumspect?

You had asked, "Now, In order for God to grant people innocence, He can't merely forgive them; no, God has to exonerate them; and how to do that legally when there is evidence enough to indict?"

 

[clefty]

So the Apostles did not eat the Passover until after the Lord Jesus was placed in the tomb?

I find that impossible to believe with these facts in view:

"Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat. And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare? And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready. And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer...And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me" (Lk.22:7-15;Mk.14:18).​

How can you say with a straight face that the Lord Jesus was in the tomb when His disciples ate the passover?

Because the Lord's supper was not the Passover.

After eating Judas gets up and the disciples all think he is to go buy something for the passover the next night... John 13:39 (edit to verse 29 thanks WeberHome)

No lamb was mentioned no bitter herbs...and Wine was present none is commanded in exodus...and the bread broken was leavened bread not unleavened...Artos in greek not azymos...(this is still a schism between east and west churches)

Exodus 12:22 is clear none leave the house until morning...and they all left to go to the garden...and singing...not really somber or mourning behavior had they know this was their last supper...He did so wish to celebrate passover with them though...

John 18:28 Has the authorities not wishing to enter a goyim court lest they be defiled to celebrate the Passover later that day...

So the last supper was the night before the next day when the lambs were killed and eaten that same day...

 

[clefty]

Genesis

There was evening and morning, the 1st day.
There was evening and morning, the 2nd day.
There was evening and morning, the 3rd day.
There was evening and morning, the 4th day.
There was evening and morning, the 5th day.
There was evening and morning, the 6th day.


The day began with the evening.

There was darkness on the face of the waters...NO EVENING...then there was Light and it was DAY not evening...it became evening into night into morning ending the first day...

How do you separate the darkness that covered the face of the waters from the darkness that was the evening/night of the first day?

To have evening you need light...diminishing light...and there was evening and morning after the night...the first day...

Repeat that six more times and you have a week...

Day begins with evening...LOL...night begins with evening...

Day begins with LIGHT into evening into night into morning the first day...

 

[clefty]

There certainly was!

Duh...but before there was evening there was day...you know when LIGHT was created and called day...not evening

It certainly did!

nope it began with Light...then diminishing into evening...

 

[clefty]

Believe what you will; it makes no difference to me.
I was only trying to explain the six hours of the new creation at Golgotha in Messiah.

I believe what I am convinced of and usually from scripture...this six hours creation thingy needs more explaination...so have at it...

I am sure someone is going to talk about the darkness that fell over the land as another night and day to pad the 3 x 3 numbers...

Wait for it...

 

[clefty]

If you wish to believe that Jesus was not risen on the Sunday morning after the weekly Sabbath. then you are entitled to hold to any erroneous belief that your little mind desires to believe.

Oh ok...thanks

Never said He was not risen on the Sunday morning...He was also risen on the Monday and Tuesday...still risen today...but that's a Monday again...

Little mind...lol...

 

[clefty]

After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.

Well one thing is certain according to the scriptures, The tomb in which the body of Jesus was laid, was not opened until early Sunday morning, after the weekly Sabbath.

A lot more is certain than that even...

But thanks for double checking...see it was empty...He was NOT THERE

Rose before the sun came up...the Sabbath day before

But yes the tomb was opened...and found empty...there goes stolen body theories...but here come glorified body only, not risen in the flesh theories...

 

[clefty]

Correct! But the Lord had to create an extra day to make the prophecy come true, that Jesus would be dead in the flesh for three days and three nights.

A day anywhere on any planet that orbits a sun, is a period of Darkness followed by an equal period of Light.

Darkness covered the land from midday until 3 PM, when Jesus died then there was a period of 3 hours of sunlight before the darkness of the 15th day.

That period of darkness was not an eclipse of the sun, as the longest eclipses last no more than about seven minutes, some heavenly incoming object remained between the sun and the city where Jesus died for three hours, casting its shadow over the land around Jerusalem.

Perhaps it was this, that caused what was believed to be an earthquake, just as Jesus died.

Here we see God's added day, 3 hours of darkness followed by an equal period of light.

Jesus died at the end of that period of darkness, (3 PM) and remained dead for that first day of 3 hours, (day 1) Friday night, (Night 1) Friday, (day 2) Saturday night, (Night 2) Saturday, (day 3) Sunday night, (night 3). Jesus was dead for three days and three nights as prophesied.

There it is...3 x 3 dead in the grave...despite Jonah was not dead in the whale...or anyone in scripture diagraming this added day...which would of course extend the week and disrupt the count but nobody noticed...

 

[clefty]

-
Were it not for John's gospel, we'd probably be unaware that Jesus ate his own Passover lamb before the Jews ate theirs.

● John 13:1-2 . . Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour had come that he should depart from this world to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end. And supper being ended, etc.

● John 18:28-29 . . Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover.

● John 19:13-14 . . Pilate . . brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

The Jews' religious calendar was somehow off that year, and good thing too. Apparently it was God's wishes that His son be crucified during preparation day, which is the day that the covenant requires Jews to remove of any and all traces of leavened bread from their homes and also to slaughter and roast lambs with fire ready to eat by sundown for the Passover dinner that night. Had the Jews known the correct date, they likely wouldn't have crucified Jesus on time.

● Matt 26:3-5 . .Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. But not during the feast-- they said --or there may be a riot among the people.

Due to their religious calendar's error, the Jews inadvertently crucified Jesus on the very day they wanted to avoid.

/

So you would have Him eating Himself...but there is NO MENTION of Lamb in the last supper...prolly cuz it ain't a Seder

Eating Himself...ugh...it is bad enough we have many eating Him every Sunday but this is getting surreal...

 

[WeberHome]

-

the Lord's supper was not the Passover.

The Lord's last supper may not have been "the" Passover, but nevertheless it was a Passover.

● Matt 26:17-20 . . On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked: Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?

● Mark 14:12-17 . . On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus' disciples asked him: Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?

● Luke 22:7-13 . .Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. Jesus sent Peter and John, saying: Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover.

● Luke 22:14-16 . .When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. And he said to them: I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.

After eating Judas gets up and the disciples all think he is to go buy something for the passover the next night... John 13:39

I think you meant John 13:29, which reads like this:

"Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the feast, or to give something to the poor.

The word "Passover" is nowhere in that verse. The "feast" in view is the seven-day feast of unleavened bread which includes, and commences with, the Passover meal. The Lord's dinner was fully prepared; they needed nothing more for it, but there is no indication that he and his men had enough provisions for the rest of the feast; viz: the week ahead.

John 18:28

The Jews' religious calendar was somehow running a day late that year, and good thing too. Apparently it was God's wishes that His son be crucified during preparation day, which is the day that the covenant requires Jews to remove of any and all traces of leavened bread from their homes and also to slaughter and roast lambs with fire ready to eat by sundown for the Passover dinner that night. Had the Jews known the correct date, they likely wouldn't have crucified Jesus on time.

● Matt 26:3-5 . .Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. But not during the feast-- they said --or there may be a riot among the people.

Due to their religious calendar's error, the Jews inadvertently crucified Jesus on the very day they wanted to avoid.

/

 

[clefty]

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I don't think The Church ever meant for Friday to be historically accurate; but rather, simply convenient for both the laity and the hierarchy.

The thing is: according to Ex 12:1-20, Passover and the Feast Of Unleavened Bread are joined at the hip. In point of fact, the Passover lamb is supposed to be eaten on the very first night of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Well; according to Ex 12:16, that night is a sabbath; and I sincerely believe it would mess with people's heads were The Church to attempt to explain the ramifications of that to the average rank and file pew warmer who knows little to nothing about Jewish holy days.

The trickiest part of the explanation would involve the timing of the normal seventh-day sabbath relative to the feast's sabbath because it just so happens that a regular seventh-day sabbath, and the feast's sabbath are in such close proximity crucifixion week that it's very easy to mistake them as one and the same sabbath.

Consecutive sabbaths like that happen on occasion due to Yom Kippur, the Feast of Trumpets, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread being floating holy days; thus requiring pious Jews to observe two sabbaths in a row the years when a holy day sabbath runs back to back with a regular seventh-day sabbath.

/

Yes teaching the truth does mess with people's heads something the Church desperately seeks to avoid...

Rules of postponement were especially necessary moving from lunar to solar...to pagan...after 2 Hillel...as Jews attempted to embrace the roman calendar...

 

[jamie]

Rose before the sun came up...the Sabbath day before

When was he buried?

 

[clefty]

The heart of the earth is a figure of speech. It simply means he would be buried in the ground as opposed to being buried above ground.

The word "heart" can be used literally or figuratively. For example, circumcision of the heart is not referring to a surgical procedure.

A fish was Jonah's grave, a tomb in the earth was Jesus' grave.

Ok...so you do allow for figurative language and poetic license...good

Heart of the earth is Jerusalem...He was confined (as Jonah was)...not dead...confined by Judas' betrayal sealing the deal...arrested, tried, beaten, killed and on the third day rose...notice the sequence

From being sold to being rose...3 days 3 nights...

Jonah was not dead for 3 days and 3 nights...dead people dont pray certainly dont pray their way out of their deserved rewards yes?..and being disobedient I imagine he would be in hell...imagine being able to pray your way out of hell...jonah too used poetic license to describe his situation...seaweed wrapped around his head...

He said my soul faints...not dies or is dead...he didnt say he was in hell but grave...he cant be in a pit under the mountains AND in a whale's belly right?


no corruption mentioned of his skin...and prophecy said there would be none of His flesh either...

You need Jonah dead...but he wasn't...

 

[clefty]

Nope, he was dead longer than three days and three nights.

Jesus died midafternoon on the fourth day of the week and was awakened early on the first day of the weeks.

He was dead for 75 hours and then he was told to rise and shine.

So He lied about the third day rising?

 

[clefty]

-
If perchance Jesus' Passover dinner was right on time; and the Jews' calendar a day late; then the chronology of his death and resurrection would look something like this:

• Wednesday: Christ's friends prepare for the feast of unleavened bread; which entails removing leaven from homes and slaughtering and roasting lambs with fire before sundown.

• Wednesday night: Christ eats his Passover dinner

• Thursday: The Romans crucify Jesus while the Jews' prepare for their own feast of unleavened bread

• Thursday night: Jesus' first night in the tomb, the Jews' eat their Passover dinner

• Friday: Jesus first day in the tomb, the Jews' first day of the feast of unleavened bread; which began at sunrise the morning after their Passover dinner.

• Friday night: Jesus' second night in the tomb, the Jews observe the night portion of their regular sabbath, which began at sundown.

• Saturday: Jesus' second day in the tomb, the Jews continue observing the regular sabbath till sundown that day.

• Saturday night: Jesus' third night in the tomb, the Jews shops are back open for business.

• Sunday: Jesus' third day in the tomb.

/

Sunday early morning tomb found already empty...not third day in tomb

 

[clefty]

-


The Lord's last supper may not have been "the" Passover, but nevertheless it was a Passover.

● Matt 26:17-20 . . On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked: Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?

● Mark 14:12-17 . . On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus' disciples asked him: Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?

● Luke 22:7-13 . .Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. Jesus sent Peter and John, saying: Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover.

● Luke 22:14-16 . .When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. And he said to them: I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.




I think you meant John 13:29, which reads like this:

"Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the feast, or to give something to the poor.

The word "Passover" is nowhere in that verse. The "feast" in view is the seven-day feast of unleavened bread which includes, and commences with, the Passover meal. The Lord's dinner was fully prepared; they needed nothing more for it, but there is no indication that he and his men had enough provisions for the rest of the feast; viz: the week ahead.

Yes thanks for the correction on the verse count will edit it...

So you would have all then who kept detailed accounts of times and festivals be wrong rather than yourself...

The Lord's supper was not a passover for other reasons you ignore...

[What therefore is the difference between saying Elohim created the heavens and the earth, and all that is within them, in six hours as opposed to six full twenty-four hour days? The real difference is that six full twenty-four hour days must necessarily include twelve hours of night in between each creation day of light. This means that either Elohim paused for twelve hours each time between creation days, (), or that Elohim also spoke creation into existence during darkness and it took Him an hundred forty-four hours to speak what we read in the first chapter of Genesis, (). But if you see what I have said herein above then perhaps you will see it much easier to believe that Elohim spoke creation into existence in six consecutive yamim-hours of spoken Word, without pause and in pure clear bright light of this one great day of creation, (having already divided the darkness and set it aside unto the nightfall). Therefore the seventh hour is the daily Shabbat hour of every day, (and according to the prayer time hours this makes the seventh hour daily Shabbat the tenth hour on the sundial, lol, (see Joh=Verdana]The Jews' religious calendar was somehow running a day late that year, and good thing too. Apparently it was God's wishes that His son be crucified during preparation day, which is the day that the covenant requires Jews to remove of any and all traces of leavened bread from their homes and also to slaughter and roast lambs with fire ready to eat by sundown for the Passover dinner that night. Had the Jews known the correct date, they likely wouldn't have crucified Jesus on time.

● Matt 26:3-5 . .Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. But not during the feast-- they said --or there may be a riot among the people.

Due to their religious calendar's error, the Jews inadvertently crucified Jesus on the very day they wanted to avoid.

/[/font]

He was killed before the feast when the actual lambs were being killed...

 

[clefty]

When was he buried?

As fast as His followers could before the Sabbath coming in the morning...

You really think there was literally enough time for all to have transpired before it was sundown?

Going to ask permission of the court...having them confirm He was dead...have you EVER dealt with government offices before a holiday?

Takes forever if at all...LOL

 

[jamie]

So He lied about the third day rising?

What?

When was Jesus laid in the tomb?

Does scripture say?

 

[clefty]

What?

When was Jesus laid in the tomb?

Does scripture say?

Yes laid in the tomb after He was dead before He rose...you think it was before sundown...but weekly Sabbath began the following morning...the full moon assisted their labors

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Because the Lord's supper was not the Passover.

So these words in 'bold" have nothing to do with the Apostles eating the passover with the Lord Jesus?:

"Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat. And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare? And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready. And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer...And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me" (Lk.22:7-15;Mk.14:18).​

If you ever had any credibility on this forum in the past then you no longer have any. It is absolutely ridiculous to argue that they did not eat the passover.

After eating Judas gets up and the disciples all think he is to go buy something for the passover the next night... John 13:39

No, they thought that he was going out to buy something for the "feast of unleavened bread," which came the day after the passover (Lev.23:5-6).

No lamb was mentioned no bitter herbs...and Wine was present none is commanded in exodus...and the bread broken was leavened bread not unleavened...Artos in greek not azymos...(this is still a schism between east and west churches)

No lamb mentioned? You have got to be out of your mind if you do not think that this is referring to the passover lamb:

"Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed" (Lk.2:27).​

Also, notice that the day referred to here is the "day of unleavened bread" but despite that you say that they were not eating unleavened bread!

John 18:28 Has the authorities not wishing to enter a goyim court lest they be defiled to celebrate the Passover later that day...

So the last supper was the night before the next day when the lambs were killed and eaten that same day...

They were not worried about becoming defiled by eating the passover which was eaten in the evening because after the sun goes down they could not become ceremonially defiled:

"And when the sun is down, he shall be clean, and shall afterward eat of the holy things; because it is his food" (Lev.22:7).​

The "passover" at John 18;28 is in regard to the passover offerings which were sacrificed during the day in the temple on the first day of the "feast of unleavened bread":

"And stand in the holy place...And Josiah gave to the people, of the flock, lambs and kids, all for the passover offerings...the rulers of the house of God, gave unto the priests for the passover offerings two thousand and six hundred small cattle, and three hundred oxen" (2 Chron.35:5,7,8).​

The only animal which was eaten on the 14th in the evening were lambs. But here we see that cattle and oxen were passover offerings. Again, these passover offerings were in regard to the offerings of the first day of the feast of unleavened bread.

Of course if you cannot even understand that the Lord Jesus ate the passover meal as described at Luke 22:7-15 with His Apostles then the rest of this will be way, way, way above your head.