It is silly to think that God should not put humans to a test if He knows in advance they will fail.
What was missing from God’s existence that caused him to create Creation?
- Thread starter ttruscott
- Start date
Will a loving God condemn a sinner to hell in wrath? Of course. The Bible is full of support for that fact, even if some sinners struggle with how that could be true.
So you think that we do not live in a fallen world? That is a consequence of Adam's fall.
Your weak understanding of scripture is showing, causing you to conflate terms.
I said that that we are stuck with the CONSEQUENCES of Adam's sin.
The consequence of jumping out of a plane at high altitude without a working parachute is (usually) death, and a funeral where people cry because of their loss.
In the same way, the consequence of Adam's sin is that he died and all of creation is now in a state of brokenness.
ttruscott
Well-known member
Spirits cannot die like a body can. By becoming a soul in a body, Adam brought death to all sinners, not sin: the serpent had already fallen when ALL was pronounced good and he sinned before Adam ate by tempting Eve, then Eve sinned by believing the serpent and tempting Adam who, on earth, sinned third. For Adam to have brought death (proof of sin) into the world, he had to have sinned before he came into the world as the first sinner to be sent here. The eisegesic interpretation of these verses to make Adam who was the third to sin to be counted as the first to support the theory we are created on earth is egregious.
What we are stuck with here is the consequence of the sins of the elect because the reprobate weeds could not be judged because the judgement would pull up the sinful elect good seed also, ie, the judgement was postponed over the sins of the elect, NOT just Adam. On other words, if no elect had sinned, the judgement would be over and heaven instituted and no one would have been flung to the earth which took on the consequences of their sin.
The earth was created to be the prison, the dungeon, of the demons so they were flung to Sheol in the Earth to which they return upon the end of their earthly life: Ps 9:17
English Standard Version
The wicked shall RETURN to Sheol, all the nations that forget God.
Berean Study Bible
The wicked will RETURN to Sheol—all the nations who forget God. so Sheol is the place the wicked weeds come from when they are sown by the devil into the world:
Matt 13:36 Then Jesus dismissed the crowds and went into the house. His disciples came to Him and said, “EXPLAIN to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”
37 He replied, “The One who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed represents the sons of the kingdom (ie people). The weeds are the sons of the evil one, (ie people) 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil.
Last edited:
Derf
Well-known member
He had a son already in eternity.
John 17:5 - Prayer for the Son
And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.
biblehub.com
Jesus was God before He came to earth and took upon Himself the form of a man.He had a son already in eternity.
John 17:5 - Prayer for the Son
And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.biblehub.com
but with no one around who will aknowledge him he created beings aroundhim such as angels to serve him and to help him. Being self creation cannot be proven without witnesses and he tell us in scripture we are his witnesses of his glory. G-d is one being perfect but for A father to be called A father he needeth A son Jesus is that son before the devil, Michael, and Gabriel was Jesus and he himself bestowed his will by creating other beings.
There is A special relationship he has with the universe thus G-d created other beings to be A creator of himself in that way is creator but for special purpose to be called A father you need A son.
There is A special relationship he has with the universe thus G-d created other beings to be A creator of himself in that way is creator but for special purpose to be called A father you need A son.
Last edited:
Derf
Well-known member
A tip for you. If you want to engage with someone’s post, hit the “post reply” button and make sure it includes the post you’re replying to, or we can’t always tell who you’re talking to.
Periods are also helpful.
Right Divider
Body part
Occasional paragraph breaks also help a lot.
ttruscott
Well-known member
As a Trinitarian I cannot accept this. GOD is love and love without an object to love is meaningless, self love and narcissistic.. To be eternally loving there had to be an eternal object of love, at least one... Father has nothing to do with creation of the Son but with the attitude, pov and impetus of perfect Fatherhood and perfect Sonship.
Right Divider
Body part
The Bible doesn't refer to God's role as Creator as a Father role.
It does refer to His role as Father in relationship to Israel and also to Christ.
Derf
Well-known member
So we should rely on whet ‘we know’ about God rather than what God revealed to us about Himself?Whatplease we know he is the father and as father the one who created the universe the title of God-head is only his.
Right Divider
Body part
He "is the Father" in regards to some things in particular. He's not just some vague "father".What