ECT What Kind of Death?

[Jerry Shugart]

I would say it would be along the lines of choosing to rely on the BOC gospel instead of the Kingdom gospel.

The following is not the kingdom gospel, is it?:

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18).​

Redemption is the heart and soul of the gospel of grace, that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).

Also the following words of Peter are not the kingdom gospel, is it?:

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed" (1 Pet.2:24).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Just one more thing. J.C. O'Hair wrote the following:

"Believers are saved by the gospel set forth by Paul in I Corinthians 15:1 to 4. But in my judgment there is no more definite, true statement of the gospel, in any of Paul's messages, than we have in I Peter 3:18. This is one of my favorite verses in preaching to sinners. Then think of I Peter 2:24 and I Peter 1:18 to 20. In these verses we learn that we are redeemed by the precious shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, because the Lord Jesus bare our sins in His own body on the tree" [emphasis mine] (J.C. O'Hair, Did Peter and Paul Preach Different Gospels?).​

Here is what we read at the The Berean Bible Society site about Pastor O'hair:

"Pastor O’Hair was, without a doubt, the one person who, more than any other, was used of God to establish among believers what Paul, by inspiration calls, “the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery.” He knew that he had the Scriptural solution to the current theological confusion and preached the Word with great power. His oral ministry (including radio) and his many books had a profound effect on thousands here and abroad. As a gospel preacher and soul winner he was without a peer just because he understood so clearly the truth of the unadulterated “gospel of the grace of God.” The Church, all over the world, owes him much."​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

More like which aspect of the gospel was to whom, and when.

So in order to be saved a person must just believe one aspect of the gospel?

A person doesn't have to believe that whole gospel but instead only one aspect of it?

From what I read here it seems to me that in order to be saved a person must believe the gospel and not just one aspect of it:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

Do you not see "two" different gospels in the following verse?:

"But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter" (Gal.2:7).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I can defense , what in Christ means !!

Of only those "in Christ" can it be said that their life is "in the Son," and that is where John tells the believers here:

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (1 Jn.5:11).​

These Jewish Christians are told that the eternal life which has been given to them is "in" the Son. This can only be in regard to how the sinner is made "alive together with Christ":

"even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).​

This speaks of the Christian's total identification with the Lord Jesus, a truth which is true for only those who are in the Body of Christ. Our life which is in Christ is the same thing spoken of in the following passage:

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory" (Col.3:1-4).​

The Christian has been given eternal life, and "this life is in the Son"..."Christ is our life" and our "your life is hid with Christ in God." These verses are in regard to a total identification with the Lord Jesus and speak of our "postion" in Christ, being risen with Christ and being seated with Him in heavenly places. That is what Peter is speaking of here:

"Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus" (1 Pet.5:14).

 

[patrick jane]

Just one more thing. J.C. O'Hair wrote the following:

"Believers are saved by the gospel set forth by Paul in I Corinthians 15:1 to 4. But in my judgment there is no more definite, true statement of the gospel, in any of Paul's messages, than we have in I Peter 3:18. This is one of my favorite verses in preaching to sinners. Then think of I Peter 2:24 and I Peter 1:18 to 20. In these verses we learn that we are redeemed by the precious shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, because the Lord Jesus bare our sins in His own body on the tree" [emphasis mine] (J.C. O'Hair, Did Peter and Paul Preach Different Gospels?).​

Here is what we read at the The Berean Bible Society site about Pastor O'hair:

"Pastor O’Hair was, without a doubt, the one person who, more than any other, was used of God to establish among believers what Paul, by inspiration calls, “the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery.” He knew that he had the Scriptural solution to the current theological confusion and preached the Word with great power. His oral ministry (including radio) and his many books had a profound effect on thousands here and abroad. As a gospel preacher and soul winner he was without a peer just because he understood so clearly the truth of the unadulterated “gospel of the grace of God.” The Church, all over the world, owes him much."​

I suppose it depends on who preached it first and where and when the 12 heard it.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

 

[musterion]

More like which aspect of the gospel was to whom, and when.

Which aspect of which gospel.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I suppose it depends on who preached it first and where and when the 12 heard it.

Paul preached it first but what does that have to do with the assertion that only some Jewish believers were baptized into the Body and others not?

As I demonstrated earlier, Paul made it plain that his stewardship responsibility was to preach the gospel of grace. And that is the same responsibility of those who received the Hebrew epistles:

"Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms" (1 Pet.4:10).​

 

[Danoh]

Which aspect of which gospel.

Read into the following what you will, but the view I hold to, and that I have found over time that most Pastor-Teachers within Acts 9 also actually hold to, is that the phrase "the gospel of God" is an umbrella term that all various aspects of "the gospel" come under.

As is a phrase like "the word of truth." Which refers to "the truth OF GOD."

Anyway, Romans 1 is summarized in Romans 16 as that aspect of the gospel of God's promised good news concerning His Son that Paul had been separated unto - by Israel's same exact everlasting God * - the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery - in other words - accprdingbto that wisdom of God that He had kept secret since the world began, but which He had now uniquely made manifest to Paul, that through his prophetic ** preaching; teaching; and writings...alone...he might make it manifest to all nations for that obedience that is simply believing.
____________________

* For contrary to Replacement Theology, Israel was now merely on hold, once more, "as He saith also in O see..."

For at the same time, His beloved Israel is ever on His Mind...and in His Heart.

Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

** Prophetic - God speaking through those specific men back then.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Rom. 5: 6-8

 

[patrick jane]

Paul preached it first but what does that have to do with the assertion that only some Jewish believers were baptized into the Body and others not?

As I demonstrated earlier, Paul made it plain that his stewardship responsibility was to preach the gospel of grace. And that is the same responsibility of those who received the Hebrew epistles:

"Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms" (1 Pet.4:10).​

I think I misunderstood but I believe when Jesus tells Jews and anybody else that was hearing Him, that if they believed, they would have eternal life.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I think I misunderstood but I believe when Jesus tells Jews and anybody else that was hearing Him, that if they believed, they would have eternal life.

Yes, that is correct. But those who received Peter's epistles were stewards of the grace of God so the doctine found in those epistles is for the present dispensation of grace.

However, some say that the doctrine found in those epistles is for another dispensation.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Anyway, Romans 1 is summarized in Romans 16 as that aspect of the gospel of God's promised good news concerning His Son that Paul had been separated unto...

Let's look at the gospel mentioned in Romans 1:

"Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures)" (Ro.1:2).​

The gospel of which Paul spoke of there was a gospel which was according to prophecy. The gospel spoken of in the following passage is described as being kept secret sincethe world began:

"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began" (Ro.16:25).​

Do you not see two different and distinct gospels mentioned here?:

"But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter" (Gal.2:7).​

 

[Danoh]

Paul preached it first but what does that have to do with the assertion that only some Jewish believers were baptized into the Body and others not?

As I demonstrated earlier, Paul made it plain that his stewardship responsibility was to preach the gospel of grace. And that is the same responsibility of those who received the Hebrew epistles:

"Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms" (1 Pet.4:10).​

You never did understand why Paul, and why the Mystery, and what purpose the Body, in contrast to why an Israel and why the Twelve.

But it is too late for you.

You have gone too long married in your errors.

It is what it is.

One more of those called MADs ever asserting in one breath that the Mystery interrupted Prophecy, even as they assert in another, all sorts of notions that amount to asserting that both are the same, or that God later inspired some other nation in North America (never mind Romans 11:25), or that God is supposedly electing Presidents, is leading one outside of His long since settled Word, and all sorts of other nonsense.

Actually consistent MADs such...are not.

2 Timothy 2: 15.

Acts 17: 11, 12.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You never did understand why Paul, and why the Mystery, and what purpose the Body, in contrast to why an Israel and why the Twelve.

Why didn't you answer my question. How many gospel do you see in this verse?:

"But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter" (Gal.2:7).​

Is that speaking of two aspects of the gospel or two different gospels?

 

[Danoh]

Let's look at the gospel mentioned in Romans 1:

"Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures)" (Ro.1:2).​

The gospel of which Paul spoke of there was a gospel which was according to prophecy. The gospel spoken of in the following passage is described as being kept secret sincethe world began:

"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began" (Ro.16:25).​

Do you not see two different and distinct gospels mentioned here?:

"But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter" (Gal.2:7).​

More of your outdated ideas.

Paul's point is that the very Christ not only promised to Israel but proven had been Him has separated Paul unto his unique Apostleship among the Gentiles.

The exact same concept he repeats in Romans 15.

As for your other also outdated info..

When James, Cephas, and John agree to confine their ministry to the Circumcision, neither the term Circumcision, nor the term Uncircumcision, have the meaning they do at times, elsewhere.

Believing Israel has already been sealed; Unbelieving Israel has been concluded Uncircumcision or Heathen with the Gentiles, and cut off from their gospel's offer as insaveable under it for their blasphemy of the Spirit.

James, Cephas and John (the very order of their writings) are agreeing to confine their ministry to their converts (which is who they wrote to).

In contrast, Paul agrees to continue to go to both lost Jews and Gentiles - as Uncircumcision.

Both as Uncircumcision.

Exactly what he is depicted doing throughout Acts, given and towards, the Mystery aspect of God's Two-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery.

Sheesh, Jerry - must I write you a book on all these finer distinctions?

:chuckle:

Acts 17: 11, 12

 

[Danoh]

Why didn't you answer my question. How many gospel do you see in this verse?:

"But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter" (Gal.2:7).​

Is that speaking of two aspects of the gospel or two different gospels?

Patience, my cherished old right divider warrior.



Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[DAN P]

Of only those "in Christ" can it be said that their life is "in the Son," and that is where John tells the believers here:

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (1 Jn.5:11).​

These Jewish Christians are told that the eternal life which has been given to them is "in" the Son. This can only be in regard to how the sinner is made "alive together with Christ":

"even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).​

This speaks of the Christian's total identification with the Lord Jesus, a truth which is true for only those who are in the Body of Christ. Our life which is in Christ is the same thing spoken of in the following passage:

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory" (Col.3:1-4).​

The Christian has been given eternal life, and "this life is in the Son"..."Christ is our life" and our "your life is hid with Christ in God." These verses are in regard to a total identification with the Lord Jesus and speak of our "postion" in Christ, being risen with Christ and being seated with Him in heavenly places. That is what Peter is speaking of here:

"Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus" (1 Pet.5:14).

Hi Jerry and here are the verses :

#1 in Christ 47 X , This the our Lord's resurrected name

#2, in the Lord , 41 X

#3, in Christ , 31 times

#4 , in Him , 20 X

#5, in the Lord , 6X

#6, in Jesus , 1x

#7, in Himself, 2X

#8 , in the Beloved , 1 x

There are 3 quotes of the Messianic Assembly !!

#1 , Gal 1:22 , And I was unknown by face to the assemblies of Judea which were in Christ !

#2 1 Thess 2:14 For you , brethren , became imitators of the assemblies of God which are kin Judea IN CHRIST JESUS , For you suffered the same things from your countrymen , just as they did from the Judeans !!

#3 , Rom 16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junia , my countrymen and fellow prisoners , who are of note among the APOSTLES , who also were in Christ before me !!

The 3 above were in Christ BEFORE / PRO the Body of Christ was EVEN KNOWN !!

Also , both are connected with the 12 APOSTLES as Rom 16:7 has identified !!

We see from Gal 3:28 that there CANNOT BE / ENI Jews in the Body of Christ , PERIOD , as Jews and Gentiles are a NEW CREATION in Christ Jesus !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

We see from Gal 3:28 that there CANNOT BE / ENI Jews in the Body of Christ , PERIOD , as Jews and Gentiles are a NEW CREATION in Christ Jesus !!

Paul himself said that Jews were baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Anyway, Romans 1 is summarized in Romans 16 as that aspect of the gospel of God's promised good news concerning His Son that Paul had been separated unto...

Let's look at the gospel mentioned in Romans 1:

"Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures)" (Ro.1:2).​

The gospel of which Paul spoke of there was a gospel which was according to prophecy. The gospel spoken of in the following passage is described as being kept secret since the world began:

"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began" (Ro.16:25).​

Do you not see two different and distinct gospels mentioned here?:

"But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter" (Gal.2:7).​

 

[DAN P]

Paul himself said that Jews were baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

Hi Jerry and if Christ saves them , YES , Jews are BAPTIZO / PLACED into the B O C as per 2 Cor 3:16 !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi Jerry and if Christ saves them , YES , Jews are BAPTIZO / PLACED into the B O C as per 2 Cor 3:16 !!

I never said that any unbelievers, Jew or Gentile, are baptized into the Body.