What is your answer to "The Race Problem"?

[mve-nl-88]

What is the "race problem"? The disproportionate outcomes in the United States of people from different racial groups. Higher incarceration rates, higher rates of poverty, lower rates of educational attainment. Etc.

More breakdown on incarceration rates

Spoiler

Poverty Rates

Higher Unemployment rate for the same Educational attainment.

So what is the cause of this?

Racism?

Culture?

Motivation?

Societal Structure?

Genetics?

Something else?



(this would be a bit better as a poll )



For those interested in exploring the question I highly recommend the book: Divided by Faith: Evangelical Religion and the Problem of Race in America.

The cause is a combination of all, but I think that culture is the most important cause.

 

[Traditio]

It's not simply a question of "complaint" or "who is guilty". Even if the criminal justice system was perfect, that would still not be the important question.

Yes, it would be. Those are literally the only important questions when it comes to criminal justice.

What can be done so that the next generation of ghetto kids don't end up as criminals?

Very simple: if those ghetto kids don't commit crimes, they won't end up as criminals. See how easy that is?

 

[The Berean]

Agree or disagree with this video about the complicity of the media? :think:

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[Traditio]

Probably a higher percentage than for white people, if jurors are as racist as the general population.

Note that this is pure speculation on your part.

But to answer your question on a more roundabout way: there are two levels of cause to consider. The first, and the one that is prevalent amongst the "they bring it on themselves" crowd, is the proximate cause, the 'last thing' that had to happen for the crime to happen. A decision by the perpetrator that signifies legal guilt.

That's the only relevent factor.

 

[The Berean]

Does culture matter? :think:

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[Stripe]

Agree or disagree with this video about the complicity of the media? :think:

.

Disagree.

 

[gcthomas]

Note that this is pure speculation on your part.



That's the only relevent factor.

So do you think that cultural factors have no effect on the level of criminality? If they do, do you not have a duty to change them to draw fewer people in?

 

[Traditio]

So do you think that cultural factors have no effect on the level of criminality? If they do, do you not have a duty to change them to draw fewer people in?

I'm not making comment on any of those things. I'm simply saying that you are not entitled to criticize the fact that a lot of black people are in prison. They (meaning, here, not "black people," but "the black people who currently are in prison") should be in prison. They're criminals. Criminals belong in prison.

 

[gcthomas]

I'm not making comment on any of those things. I'm simply saying that you are not entitled to criticize the fact that a lot of black people are in prison. They (meaning, here, not "black people," but "the black people who currently are in prison") should be in prison. They're criminals. Criminals belong in prison.

The OP was about 'the black problem' which related surely to the fact that a much higher proportion of blacks than whites is in prison.

So, unless you believe that blacks are inherently less moral, then you must either believe that the justice system is biased, or that there are external factors that are emcouraging more blacks to crime. Which is it?

 

[Alate_One]

Again, are they guilty? Do they deserve to be incarcerated?

I don't think most drug crimes deserve incarceration, they should be treated as a social/medical problem.

Spoiler

If we compare the US to other industrialized nations in the world, we can see our numbers of incarcerated are way out of proportion compared to the rest of the world.

Do you think US citizens are inherently more immoral compared to the rest of the world?

Why focus on whether or not the sentences are equal?

Why not? If one group gets longer sentences than the other, that alone may explain a lot of the disparity, rather than number of convictions.

 

[The Berean]

The OP was about 'the black problem' which related surely to the fact that a much higher proportion of blacks than whites is in prison.

So, unless you believe that blacks are inherently less moral, then you must either believe that the justice system is biased, or that there are external factors that are emcouraging more blacks to crime. Which is it?

It comes back to culture and the encouragement and glorification of "street culture" whether you called it "ghetto culture" or "barrio culture" or whatever. It's not limited to black people either. It's also pervasive in the Latino/Chicano culture as well. The imagery in this video glorifies the more criminal element of Chicano culture. I grew up with guys like the males portrayed in the video.

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[chair]

Yes, it would be. Those are literally the only important questions when it comes to criminal justice.

Very simple: if those ghetto kids don't commit crimes, they won't end up as criminals. See how easy that is?

If this was merely a problem of criminal justice, then you would be right.

But it is not merely a criminal justice problem. It is an ill of society. The goal is to ensure that there will be less criminals in the next generation. If you don't care what your society looks like, or what it will look like in 50 years, then by all means ignore the causes of the problem, and just prosecute criminals. And- be ashamed of yourself for taking such a narrow view of things.

 

[bybee]

If this was merely a problem of criminal justice, then you would be right.

But it is not merely a criminal justice problem. It is an ill of society. The goal is to ensure that there will be less criminals in the next generation. If you don't care what your society looks like, or what it will look like in 50 years, then by all means ignore the causes of the problem, and just prosecute criminals. And- be ashamed of yourself for taking such a narrow view of things.

If punishment worked there would be no recidivism. I suspect that early childhood training is one key to change?

 

[Alate_One]

If punishment worked there would be no recidivism. I suspect that early childhood training is one key to change?

That is one key change. And while preschool helps to some extent there have been studies showing that what really fixes the problem is getting people out of concentrated poverty when they are young. Current housing segregation is the problem, and that problem was created by government policy.

Make sure that public housing is small, and scattered into middle income neighborhoods and the ills of poverty don't have fertile ground to grow in. A segregated "culture" won't exist because there will be one culture.

That and making sure all school systems are good schools (which would flow naturally from more mixed housing) then after a few generations you would be a long way towards fixing the race problem.

 

[Alate_One]

It comes back to culture and the encouragement and glorification of "street culture" whether you called it "ghetto culture" or "barrio culture" or whatever. It's not limited to black people either. It's alos pervasive in the Latino/Chicano culture as well. The imagery in this video glorifies the more criminal element of Chicano culture. I grew up with guys like the males portrayed in the video.

But there have always been plenty of white kids listening to the same kind of music, some even adopt the same "culture" but they still end up with better outcomes.

 

[TomO]

But there have always been plenty of white kids listening to the same kind of music, some even adopt the same "culture" but they still end up with better outcomes.

There is a difference between mimicking dress and styles and adopting a "culture".

Just sayin' lain:

 

[bybee]

But there have always been plenty of white kids listening to the same kind of music, some even adopt the same "culture" but they still end up with better outcomes.

But, one must consider what is going on in the home?

 

[Quincy]

But there have always been plenty of white kids listening to the same kind of music, some even adopt the same "culture" but they still end up with better outcomes.

Not really... Anyone interested in this issue should read this article.

TheGreatWhiteGhetto

I know that is a conservative publication but I've lived most of my life in the white ghetto and everything reported here is true. It's hard to think about, but I've seen many people (all white) that I grew up with and attended school with end up dead or in jail from being involved with drugs or property crimes.... and I'm only 33. 33, think about that.

It's easy to believe this is a race problem, but it's really a poverty issue and poverty is one thing that is truly colorblind. It really isn't fair to place these issues on any race in particular. I wish I could say there is a fix for the problem, but there isn't. Once you've looked into enough coffins you begin to realize that poverty and suffering are the defacto human experience. There just aren't enough resources to accommodate all people comfortably.

Someone might think that there is, especially people who have plenty or have never truly been without. You always hear people say things like "well, if they just got right with the lord" , " if they weren't lazy they wouldn't need assistance" or "we just need to educate everyone" but that is all lies. Mana doesn't fall out of the sky, you can't cut down trees and transport them without a saw and truck and no matter how smart you are.... if you can't afford to leave your current area but everyone else has... then you're in trouble.

 

[ok doser]

More blacks commit crimes as a percentage? You're racist.

too bad billybob doesn't post here anymore

 

[Arthur Brain]

Neither.

The blame lies with those who deny people groups opportunities by promising them handouts.

That's just ridiculous. Having a welfare system for those out of work isn't denying people the opportunity to find employment or growth. It's simply aid to people who otherwise would have no money for food and bills etc. You take away that safety net and all you'd do is increase poverty which helps nobody.