What is the express image of God?
- Thread starter keypurr
- Start date
I mean He spoke of His judgment being just and that He was not alone in it.
True but that is a different kind of judgment, as he says, "Judge righteous judgment", (John 7:24). However when it comes to condemnation and damnation the man Yeshua says "I judge no one" as was already quoted, (John 8:15). Likewise he says that "Heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall not pass away", (Matthew 24:35 and Mark 13:31).
Therefore this the Judge cannot be the man Yeshua:
Revelation 19:11-13 KJV
11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word [Logos] of God.
Who then does the man Yeshua say this is in the above passage?
Likewise, again, as previously posted:
John 12:47-48
47. And if anyone hear my words and believe not, I judge him not; for I came not to judge the world, but-contrariwise that the world be saved.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the Logos which I have spoken, that one shall judge him in the last day.
keypurr
Well-known member
You have not understood all my posts on the subject for three years friend.
Ask yourself, who is the express image of the Father that God used to create the Universe? It was not Jesus, for he is a man born into the world. God is a spirit, this express image is also a spirit. Jesus was anointed with this very special spirit. Jesus Christ is much more than the man who died on the cross. That express spirit is a created form of God that took the form of man.
You need to study this for yourself. It goes very deep. But is well worth the effort to see. Christ was with God at the beginning of creation, Jesus was not there. Jesus became the Christ when Christ went in him.
What I say is foreign to tradition, not scriptures. God SENT the spiritual son from heaven to manifest himself to mankind. He sent his son, not himself.
Colossians 1:15-19 New International Version (NIV)
The Supremacy of the Son of God
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
So, who is the Son of God Keypurr?
The passage in Hebrews you are referencing IS talking about Jesus, which may be where you are wrong in your thinking. You need Biblical thinking.
Not answering for Keypurr but I find this critical to the answer:
Luke 3:22
22. And the Spirit of the Holy One [Hagion] descended in a bodily [GSN#4984 somatikos] shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
Colossians 2:9
9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily [GSN#4985 somatikos (adverb of GSN#4984)].
All flesh is not the same flesh: if there is a soma psuchikos, a body natural; then there is a soma pneumatikos, a body spiritual, (re: 1 Corinthians 15:39-44).
The "flesh" of the Son of God cannot "see corruption", (soma pneumatikos).
keypurr
Well-known member
I see the express image, the spiritual son of the most high God. This spirit became flesh in the body of the flesh son of the most high God. Jesus Christ is the complete son of God. Christ is a created form of God, yet he became man to die for us.
Why was God pleased that Christ had his fullness?
Did he think that it was impossible for him to do?
Incorrect. If you are following scripture you have erred by misapplying the following verse.
John 1:16 KJV - 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Unless you want to talk about correctly interpreting Colossians 2:9 NASB? Because you are still talking about a spiritual son and a flesh son, and Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is human, that is... man. The man Christ Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.
keypurr
Well-known member
I am speaking of Col 1:15-19
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
If I am wrong, Why did Christ need a body? Heb 10:5
It is not that ("some", or "a") Christ was given a body. It is that Christ Jesus is a man and the only begotten Son of God. You can't have Christ without Jesus.
It would be wrong to say that anointed came to dwell in a man. It is wrong to say that the anointed one came to dwell in a man. It is correct to say that Jesus is the Christ (the anointed, the anointed one). That is that Jesus is the Messiah (the same word as the word Christ but the word Christ comes to us from a different language). Where does the word Messiah come from? The word Christ does not come from the Hebrew language.
John 1:41 NKJV - 41 He first found his own brother Simon, and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which is translated, the Christ).
"Express" image means He is the visibility of the invisible God
Just like scripture reveals:
God created a bodily form for the first of mankind (Adam) after HIS own image and likeness.
This means that God first created a bodily image for his own use ... and then shared that image with Adam.
Scripture also reveals that God the Father's image had super-natural qualities ... while Adam's did not. It was only when God came as his own Son that any descendant of Adam had ever seen the image of God in fleshly form.
This is why John 1:18 says:
No man at any time hath seen God, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he (John the B) hath declared HIM (God the Son).
Selected men and women in ages past had seen the image of God as the Father with super-natural qualities ... but no man had ever seen the image of God manifested in flesh.
Jesus could have not been more clear! My interpretation included in Jesus's words:
When you have seem ME (who is appearing in the image of God in flesh ... you have seen God the Father's image (who sent me.)
Jesus was God spiritually and physically, but I won't deal with the spiritual side in this post.
God created a bodily form for the first of mankind (Adam) after HIS own image and likeness.
This means that God first created a bodily image for his own use ... and then shared that image with Adam.
Scripture also reveals that God the Father's image had super-natural qualities ... while Adam's did not. It was only when God came as his own Son that any descendant of Adam had ever seen the image of God in fleshly form.
This is why John 1:18 says:
No man at any time hath seen God, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he (John the B) hath declared HIM (God the Son).
Selected men and women in ages past had seen the image of God as the Father with super-natural qualities ... but no man had ever seen the image of God manifested in flesh.
Jesus could have not been more clear! My interpretation included in Jesus's words:
When you have seem ME (who is appearing in the image of God in flesh ... you have seen God the Father's image (who sent me.)
Jesus was God spiritually and physically, but I won't deal with the spiritual side in this post.
keypurr
Well-known member
I see Christ as a name as well as a position as in anointed.
Christ existed for many years before Jesus was born. There was Christ without Jesus. Jesus became the Christ when Christ went into him. Let me reword that for you.
Jesus became the Christ when the express image of God went into him.
There is no question that Jesus Christ is the awaited Messiah. What we disagree on is how he became the Messiah.
keypurr
Well-known member
Not so Totton, express image means he is a created clone of the Father. He is a FORM of God, yet not God. Christ is a spiritual being, like his Father, he took the form of man, Jesus, to display the light of God to us and then die on the cross for us.
OCTOBER23
New member
5481 χαρακτήρ charakter khar-ak-tare’
from the same as 5482; n m; TDNT-9:418,1308; { See TDNT 842 }
AV-express image 1; 1
1) the instrument used for engraving or carving
2) the mark stamped upon that instrument or wrought out on it
2a) a mark or figure burned in (#Le 13:28) or stamped on, an impression
2b) the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e facsimile
from the same as 5482; n m; TDNT-9:418,1308; { See TDNT 842 }
AV-express image 1; 1
1) the instrument used for engraving or carving
2) the mark stamped upon that instrument or wrought out on it
2a) a mark or figure burned in (#Le 13:28) or stamped on, an impression
2b) the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e facsimile
You are speculating. The scriptures say Jesus IS the express image of God, not that the express image of God went into him.
Did He become the Messiah or was He the Messiah from birth?
keypurr
Well-known member
My valued sister in Christ, I could not disagree with you more. Man was made in the image of God, but in what way? God is a spirit. His express image would also be a spirit. The same spirit that moved across the face of the waters in Genesis 1. That spirit is God's spiritual son, the son God used to create everything, the son the he sent from heaven. That spiritual son needed a stainless body prepared for him so Mary became with child. Jesus is that body as mentioned in Heb 10:5.
When Jesus was anointed with this spiritual son, God declared that this was his begotten son. His spiritual son joined with his flesh son.
The Father is not the son, the son is not the Father. God did not come to us, he sent his son Christ. Only Christ, the express image of the Father, came down from heaven to teach us about his God.
Listen to the words of our Lord in John 17:3. There is only one true God, the Father.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. (Colossians 1:15 NKJV)
Image is the Greek eikon. Express image refers to character not physical presentation.