What is the express image of God?

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daqq

Well-known member
keypurr said:
Not to be concerned about being off topic. Let the spirit flow.
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keypurr said:
I feel that I among friends right now.
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:thumb: Hey Keypurr! :)

daqq said:
The first anthropos Adam became a nephesh-chayah living soul and was formed of dust from the adamah, that is, soil-like, dusty, choikos-earthy-dusty; and this is clearly the first anthropos-man formed of Elohim in Genesis 2:7. The second anthropos is from the heavens, (Genesis 1:26-27). For a man can receive nothing unless it be given him from the heavens.
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freelight said:
Indeed, 'Man' is the apex of God's creation, the mirror of His own Self. Hence the 'Adam-Kadmon' concept holds. Man is the individual expression of the Universal Father, and such 'image' and 'likeness' is intrinsic to his creation, in both substance and form, - of which Jesus is the perfect representation, in whose image we are also 'conformed' as we are perfected in Spirit.

The first man is 'earthly', the second 'spiritual', of the Lord from heaven, the immortal man. Paul understood these mysteries, even to showing that the resurrection is really 'spiritual',...but that's another subject, lest we digress ;)
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I noticed you said "of the Lord from heaven" in that previous post but did not want to go into it at the time. However, now that the Spirit is free to flow with the blessing of the OP I would suggest the following:

The Textus Receptus indeed says that the second man is "the Lord from heaven", (at least that is how the AV-KJV renders it without the "of" which you had rendered and is forever debateable anyways as you probably know) but the Majority GNT-Morph Texts do not contain "the Lord" in that same statement:

1 Corinthians 15:45-47 KJV
45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; [Gen 2:7] the last Adam was made a quickening spirit [Messiah Yeshua].
46. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47. The first man is of the earth, earthy: [Gen 2:7] the second man is the Lord from heaven [?].

1 Corinthians 15:45-47 ASV
45. So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul [Gen 2:7]. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit [Messiah Yeshua].
46. Howbeit that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; then that which is spiritual.
47. The first man is of the earth, earthy: [Gen 2:7] the second man is of heaven [Gen 1:26-27].

I would strongly suggest that Paul does not use "the Lord" which is found in the TR version of 1 Cor 15:47 for several reasons. First reason is that the Torah and all the Prophets prophesied until Yochanan, (Matthew 11:13) and this includes Genesis and the creation account. Second reason is that the first man Adam which Paul speaks of was clearly formed in Genesis 2:7, (choikos, earthy, dust-like). However, when we read that account, we see that the first anthropon Adam was formed of dust from the adamah BEFORE there was any plant of the field in the earth, and BEFORE any herb of the field had sprouted or grown. This means the first Adam was taken from the dust of the adamah in qedem - olam past, that is, before time because it is before the fourth day creation of the greater light, the lesser light, and the stars, (which were created for signs, seasons, times, appointed times, days, and years, according to the Word spoken therein). The second man is therefore the one given dominion over the fish of the sea, fowls of the heavens, and all the beasts of the earth, and everything that moves upon the earth. That one is from the heavens, and is cut down in the image of Elohim in Genesis 1:26-27. It is not that the second man is not the Master from the heavens but that if that statement is included in 1 Cor 15:47 then most will not likely ever even begin to think that Paul speaks of the creation account in that statement. In other words to truly understand what is being said one must understand that Golgotha is the Sixth Day prophesied in Genesis 1, (hehe). Therefore likewise Yeshua says, "My Father works UNTIL NOW, and I work", (when he was accused of breaking their version of Shabbat, John 5:16-17). :)
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
daqq said:
:thumb: Hey Keypurr! :)





I noticed you said "of the Lord from heaven" in that previous post but did not want to go into it at the time. However, now that the Spirit is free to flow with the blessing of the OP I would suggest the following:

The Textus Receptus indeed says that the second man is "the Lord from heaven", (at least that is how the AV-KJV renders it without the "of" which you had rendered and is forever debateable anyways as you probably know) but the Majority GNT-Morph Texts do not contain "the Lord" in that same statement:

1 Corinthians 15:45-47 KJV
45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; [Gen 2:7] the last Adam was made a quickening spirit [Messiah Yeshua].
46. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47. The first man is of the earth, earthy: [Gen 2:7] the second man is the Lord from heaven [?].

1 Corinthians 15:45-47 ASV
45. So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul [Gen 2:7]. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit [Messiah Yeshua].
46. Howbeit that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; then that which is spiritual.
47. The first man is of the earth, earthy: [Gen 2:7] the second man is of heaven [Gen 1:26-27].

I would strongly suggest that Paul does not use "the Lord" which is found in the TR version of 1 Cor 15:47 for several reasons. First reason is that the Torah and all the Prophets prophesied until Yochanan, (Matthew 11:13) and this includes Genesis and the creation account. Second reason is that the first man Adam which Paul speaks of was clearly formed in Genesis 2:7, (choikos, earthy, dust-like). However, when we read that account, we see that the first anthropon Adam was formed of dust from the adamah BEFORE there was any plant of the field in the earth, and BEFORE any herb of the field had sprouted or grown. This means the first Adam was taken from the dust of the adamah in qedem - olam past, that is, before time because it is before the fourth day creation of the greater light, the lesser light, and the stars, (which were created for signs, seasons, times, appointed times, days, and years, according to the Word spoken therein). The second man is therefore the one given dominion over the fish of the sea, fowls of the heavens, and all the beasts of the earth, and everything that moves upon the earth. That one is from the heavens, and is cut down in the image of Elohim in Genesis 1:26-27. It is not that the second man is not the Master from the heavens but that if that statement is included in 1 Cor 15:47 then most will not likely ever even begin to think that Paul speaks of the creation account in that statement. In other words to truly understand what is being said one must understand that Golgotha is the Sixth Day prophesied in Genesis 1, (hehe). Therefore likewise Yeshua says, "My Father works UNTIL NOW, and I work", (when he was accused of breaking their version of Shabbat, John 5:16-17). :)
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Yes, I been seein' that too. :cheers:
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
patrick jane said:
to describe something is in excess, like too much; it's 2 o's

like too many times - not: to many times

so it's too high, too fast, too furious

stop smearin' MAD Ian !!
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1Mind1Spirit said:
But I floo 2OO high.:shocked:
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1Mind1Spirit said:
Yes, I been seein' that too. :cheers:
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Ya'll are just two funny! :crackup: :crackup:

RBBI said:
How about this for a resurrection? The soul stays trapped in whatever it did not overcome while still in the body (the garment spotted by the flesh), but the spirit returns to the One that sent it. The resurrection is the RE-union of the soul and spirit, which can happen while still in the body. It's the superior of the resurrections Paul spoke of.

So failing to understand this, what has Christendom wrought, but a bunch of people who want to die and "go to heaven", not realizing that they will not get past the gates of the city. Paul could not have made it any plainer by stating that he did not want to be UNCLOTHED, but clothed upon, mortality swallowed up of immortality, yet they create their own doctrine.

Hoping amiss, means your hope has no chance of materializing. Christ IN US, is the only hope of glory, ie. a glorified body. There is nothing in death in and of itself to bring glory.
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RBBI said:
I understand. I guess I didn't see it as throwing off the topic, since it's actually describing the finished product of the Seed becoming much fruit. Peace
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I guess it is on-topic after all, eh friend? So Adam died, as he was warned, but YHWH had a plan all along and clothed him from on High, (second man from the heavens typology). :)
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
daqq said:
Ya'll are just two funny! :crackup: :crackup:





I guess it is on-topic after all, eh friend? So Adam died, as he was warned, but YHWH had a plan all along and clothed him from on High, (second man from the heavens typology). :)
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Romans 5:14 KJV


14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come .
 
freelight

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
image of the heavenly..............

image of the heavenly..............

daqq said:
{ speaking to freelight:}

I noticed you said "of the Lord from heaven" in that previous post but did not want to go into it at the time. However, now that the Spirit is free to flow with the blessing of the OP I would suggest the following:

The Textus Receptus indeed says that the second man is "the Lord from heaven", (at least that is how the AV-KJV renders it without the "of" which you had rendered and is forever debateable anyways as you probably know) but the Majority GNT-Morph Texts do not contain "the Lord" in that same statement:

1 Corinthians 15:45-47 KJV
45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; [Gen 2:7] the last Adam was made a quickening spirit [Messiah Yeshua].
46. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47. The first man is of the earth, earthy: [Gen 2:7] the second man is the Lord from heaven [?].

1 Corinthians 15:45-47 ASV
45. So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul [Gen 2:7]. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit [Messiah Yeshua].
46. Howbeit that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; then that which is spiritual.
47. The first man is of the earth, earthy: [Gen 2:7] the second man is of heaven [Gen 1:26-27].

I would strongly suggest that Paul does not use "the Lord" which is found in the TR version of 1 Cor 15:47 for several reasons. First reason is that the Torah and all the Prophets prophesied until Yochanan, (Matthew 11:13) and this includes Genesis and the creation account. Second reason is that the first man Adam which Paul speaks of was clearly formed in Genesis 2:7, (choikos, earthy, dust-like). However, when we read that account, we see that the first anthropon Adam was formed of dust from the adamah BEFORE there was any plant of the field in the earth, and BEFORE any herb of the field had sprouted or grown. This means the first Adam was taken from the dust of the adamah in qedem - olam past, that is, before time because it is before the fourth day creation of the greater light, the lesser light, and the stars, (which were created for signs, seasons, times, appointed times, days, and years, according to the Word spoken therein). The second man is therefore the one given dominion over the fish of the sea, fowls of the heavens, and all the beasts of the earth, and everything that moves upon the earth. That one is from the heavens, and is cut down in the image of Elohim in Genesis 1:26-27. It is not that the second man is not the Master from the heavens but that if that statement is included in 1 Cor 15:47 then most will not likely ever even begin to think that Paul speaks of the creation account in that statement. In other words to truly understand what is being said one must understand that Golgotha is the Sixth Day prophesied in Genesis 1, (hehe). Therefore likewise Yeshua says, "My Father works UNTIL NOW, and I work", (when he was accused of breaking their version of Shabbat, John 5:16-17). :)
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I concur that the TR's rendition of the second man being "the Lord from heaven" may not be the most accurate translation here, since we see that Paul's description of the 'heavenly man' is not necessarily about Jesus only (who no doubt serves as the prototype of the resurrected man) but is the universal archetype of resurrected man (all mankind who qualify and undergo this transformation).

We see this better in the full context of this passage which further affirms that we will bear the "image" of the heavenly man (essentially 'God' himself, of whom the Lord Jesus is the express image, and we ourselves AS we put on the heavenly form).

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.


-NASB
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Just to meditate upon the image of the heavenly, (Christ in us, the hope of glory) is a wondrous thing :) As the image of divinity is further unfolded in us, the greater glory to God.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
1Mind1Spirit said:
Romans 5:14 KJV


14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come .
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Amen, figures, shadows, and types, but one thing about that passage:

Romans 5:14 YLT (Young's Literal Bible)
14. but the death did reign from Adam till Moses, even upon those not having sinned in the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a type of him who is coming.

The Son of man is he who is coming: "ho erchomenos" is a title within a Title, (in the book of the Revelation of Messiah Yeshua) but unfortunately not generally recognized as such. It is not used in the above passage but what is employed there is mellontos, ("about to be" or "about to come"). This one has the hair of his head white like wool, as white as snow, and when Daniel sees him in his night vision he is coming with the clouds of the heavens, that is, the one like unto a Son of man. Messiah confirms this title to Yochanan while he is yet in the prison of Herod, (this is the Son of man who descends from the heavens). The title is also found in the Matthew companion passage, (Matthew 11:3) but I quote Luke because when Yeshua commands the two talmidim of Yochanan they suddenly become Angelon-Messengers, for at that point they are sent ones, having been sent from the Master:

Luke 7:19-24
19. And Yochanan calling unto him a certain duo of his disciples sent them to Yeshua, saying, Are you "ho erchomenos" or look we for another?
20. When the andres-men were come unto him, they said, Yochanan the Immerser has sent us unto you, saying, Are you "ho erchomenos" or look we for another?
21. And in that same hour many were cured of their infirmities, and plagues, and of evil spirits; and many that were blind received sight.
22. Then Yeshua answering commanded them, Go forth, and tell Yochanan what things you have seen and heard: the blind see, [1] the lame walk, [2] the lepers are cleansed, [3] the deaf hear, [4] the dead are raised, [5] to the poor the good news is proclaimed [6].
23. And blessed is he whosoever shall not be offended in me! [7]
24. And when the Angelon of Yochanan departed, he began to speak unto the people concerning Yochanan, What went you out into the desert for to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

Therefore I side with Young's in Romans 5:14. :)
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
freelight said:
I concur that the TR's rendition of the second man being "the Lord from heaven" may not be the most accurate translation here, since we see that Paul's description of the 'heavenly man' is not necessarily about Jesus only (who no doubt serves as the prototype of the resurrected man) but is the universal archetype of resurrected man (all mankind who qualify and undergo this transformation).

We see this better in the full context of this passage which further affirms that we will bear the "image" of the heavenly man (essentially 'God' himself, of whom the Lord Jesus is the express image, and we ourselves AS we put on the heavenly form).



Just to meditate upon the image of the heavenly, (Christ in us, the hope of glory) is a wondrous thing :) As the image of divinity is further unfolded in us, the greater glory to God.
Click to expand...

Amen, amen. :)
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
freelight said:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.


-NASB
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But how do we get there according to the strictest sense and order of the words and doctrine of Messiah which words he says will not pass away? :)

Yeshua Says: Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Herod, (Mark 8:15).

Yeshua Says: Take heed, beware the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees, (Matthew 16:6).

Yeshua Says: Beware of the anthropon man-faced, (for he knew what is in the anthropon, the fierce `Az-paniym-countenance, Deut 28:50, Dan 8:23) for they will deliver you up to the sanhedrins, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; and you shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the heathen, (Matthew 10:17).

Yeshua Says: Whoso eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day, (for the Testimony of Yeshua is the blood of the pure grape of our Covenant which drink offering cleanses the inside of the man, and the flesh of Messiah Yeshua is Torah the Manna-Word quail-dove from the heavens). For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him. As the Living Father has sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eats of me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from the heavens; not as your fathers did eat manna and are dead: he that eats of this bread shall live for ever! Many therefore of his talmidim, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? Yeshua says to them: Does this offend you? What then if you shall see the Son of man ascend up to where he was before? It is the Spirit that quickens: the flesh profits nothing, the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are Life, (John 6:54-63).

Yeshua issues forth and departs from the temple; and his talmidim come to him for to show him the magnificent stones and workmanship of the temple. Yeshua Says: Take no heed of all these things! verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down! But having been seated upon the mount of Olives, then Petros, and Yakobos, and Yohannes, and Andreas, come to him privately, saying, Foretell to us when these things shall come to pass, and what is the sign of your parousia and the consummation of the age? And Yeshua answers them:

Yeshua Says: Take heed that no one deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, "I am Messiah!", and "I am of Messiah!", and they shall deceive many, (beware the anthropon man-faced countenances which are false testimony spirits gone out into the world and which creep in unawares while you feast in the Word). And you shall hear of spiritual wars and reports of spiritual warfare: see that you be not troubled, for all these things must come to pass; but the end is not yet, (for it is yet for the mo`ed appointment, Daniel 11:27). For there shall rise up ethnos upon ethnos, and dominion upon dominion, (for every man has his own fourfold dominion-empire, Daniel 2, [O ye kings]) and there shall be famines and earth-tremors according to those places. All these are the beginning of odin-birth-pang-throes. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and you shall be hated of all the heathen for the sake of my name. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise and shall deceive many. And because lawlessness shall be increased the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end; the same shall be delivered. And this Good News Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all of the habitable land for a witness to all the heathen: and then shall the end come, (Matthew 24, Mark 13).

And this is the perfect order given through the Testimony of the Master:

1) Many false Messiah spirits claiming to be "of Messiah" shall deceive many.
2) Spiritual warfare and rumors-reports of spiritual warfare but the end is not yet.
3) Babylon, Maday-Medes, Paras-Persia: Sar Yavan over Sar Paras.
4) Famines and fastings, tremors of the land of the man, birth pangs, woes, and throes.
5) THEN SHALL THEY DELIVER YOU UP TO THEIR SANHEDRINS AND SHALL KILL YOU.
6) Many shall be offended, many more false prophets, Torahlessness abounding, no love.
7) BUT HE THAT ENDURES UNTO THE END SHALL BE DELIVERED.

Each in his or her own appointed times; and none shall be alone in his appointed times. :chuckle:
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Yeshua Says: I am the Resurrection, and the Life: he that is faithfully-trusting into me, though he dies, he shall Live: and all who Live and are faithfully-trusting into me shall absolutely not die into the age! Believe you this? :)
 
R

RBBI

New member
keypurr said:
The AENT is putting a rubber stamp on my thoughts. But I am still learning about the real me. Why have I put limits on myself when I can fly?
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Because the Jezebel spirit that sits upon the mountains of men, seeks to keep us bound up in religious works and mindsets instead of allowing the Spirit to work through us and finally consume us. Once that yoke is broken off our necks where she sits, nothing is impossible with HaShem. Peace
 
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