What is a Christian fundamentalist?

Cyrus of Persia

New member
Clete,

to point out your last message, you are still speaking about CHRISTIAN fundamentalism. If you talk about pure fundamentalism, then PureX is right - almost any religion contains fundys, liberals, etc. So we are not speaking about "fundamentalism", but "Christian fundamentalism".

Just a note. Probably unnessessary, but i thought that i will point it out.
 

beanieboy

New member
Uh, I believe you are constantly accusing me for arguing that exact thing - discussing meaning, definition, context, translation...
 

On Fire

New member
Originally posted by beanieboy

Uh, I believe you are constantly accusing me for arguing that exact thing - discussing meaning, definition, context, translation...

But not "that". It's beyond your experience.
 

beanieboy

New member
1 John 4: 7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

I have seen no fruit come from you.
Some nastiness.
Some vomitting icons.
But generally, you are angry, snide and self-righteous.

I question whether you know God.
Whoever does not love does not know God.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Originally posted by Swordsman

But I think you would have to agree that open theism broke off from Arminianism. They saw the flaws with the conditional election piece among other things and came up with this ideology known as the "open view."
No that's how Arminianism came into being but not Open Theism.
Open Theism is a logical extension of Dispensationalism (or perhaps it’s the other way around :think: ).
Both Arminians and Calvinists both think that God exist outside of time and the He cannot change. The one simply figures out a way of stressing man's responsibility and the other God's sovereignty. Open Theism stresses both equally because of a different and more logically (and Biblically) consistent understanding of the nature of reality.

How can you say "Arminians are way to Calvinistic"??? Maybe you do not understand TULIP compared to the 5 points of Arminism....

I understand the TULIP better than you do most likely. I'm not saying that Arminians ARE Calvinists, I'm just saying that they are Calvinistic in that they believe in the absolute immutability of God and that time is something that God exists outside of. Since these are two foundational issues of Open Theism, I would say that neither Calvinism or Arminianism are related to it at all.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Originally posted by beanieboy

1 John 4: 7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

I have seen no fruit come from you.
Some nastiness.
Some vomitting icons.
But generally, you are angry, snide and self-righteous.

I question whether you know God.
Whoever does not love does not know God.

Rom. 12:9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil.
 

On Fire

New member
Originally posted by beanieboy

1 John 4: 7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

I have seen no fruit come from you.
Some nastiness.
Some vomitting icons.
But generally, you are angry, snide and self-righteous.

I question whether you know God.
Whoever does not love does not know God.

Stop worrying about me (and others). Worry about you and God.
 

beanieboy

New member
Originally posted by Clete Pfeiffer

Rom. 12:9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil.

Can you explain this in contrast to what I posted?

It seems that you are suggesting that "For God so loved the world" should say, "For God so love the world, except for the evil people..."

God loved everyone, and came for the lost, not the saved.

In the context that I used, I pointed out that AS show no love, and therefore, may not know God at all.

Imagine watching a dad with his kid. The kid punches some other kid, and the dad say, "You make puke! You disgusting pile of crap! I told you to stop hitting kids! Lev. says that I should kill you, and I would jump up and down on your grave and Praise God!"

Is that love? Because it is abhorring what is evil.
Or is the "love" evil itself?

This is why I am constantly backing away from Christianity.
The call love hate, and hate love.
 

PureX

Well-known member
Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

Clete,

to point out your last message, you are still speaking about CHRISTIAN fundamentalism. If you talk about pure fundamentalism, then PureX is right - almost any religion contains fundys, liberals, etc. So we are not speaking about "fundamentalism", but "Christian fundamentalism".

Just a note. Probably unnessessary, but i thought that i will point it out.
Even if we are just looking at Christian fundamentalism, it's still an obsession with righteousness. Why do you think the "inerrant" bible concept is so essential to Christian fundamentalists? I think it's because they believe that through the bible they can have access to "absolute righteousness". They know that as a human being, they can't claim to be absolutely right about God, or life, or death, or justice, or any of the other important issues that we humans worry over because we are not omniscient. But if the fundamentalist can claim that the bible was "written by God" and therefor must be absolutely right in all ways, then by "owning" that bible they can "own" the absolute righteousness within it. They can have the "answers" to these troubling questions AND the certainty that their "answers" are absolutely right. And this is why the bible is the center of everything to the fundamentalist: because it's their source of "righteousness" and it's this idea of righteousness (of certainty) that they crave - that is their "god".

Why is fear of hell and the desire for heavenly reward such a primary motive for fundamentalist doctrines? I think it's because it's the reason they become fundamentalists to begin with - they are desperately afraid of not knowing the answers to those important human questions. They are desperately afraid of "God", and of not measuring up in life, and of what will happen to them when they die. Fundamentalism is how they deal with this fear. This is why being "right" is so important to a fundamentalist. Being "right" is the antidote to his ignorance and fear.

Fundamentalism is not about God, and it's not about religious doctrines, per se. It's about being "right" at almost any cost. It's completely driven by fear and ignorance and a desperate desire to deny it's own fear and ignorance rather than facing it. I think this is basically the definition of an addiction, and that fundamentalism is essentially the manifestation of addiction.
 
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On Fire

New member
Originally posted by PureX

Even if we are just looking at Christian fundamentalism, it's still an obsession with righteousness. Why do you think the "inerrant" bible concept is so essential to Christian fundamentalists? I think it's because they believe that through the bible that they can have access to "absolute righteousness". They know that as a human being, they can't claim to be absolutely right about God, or life, or death, or justice, or any of the other important issues that men worry over because they are not omniscient. But if they claim that the bible was "written by God" and therefor must be absolutely right in all ways, then by "owning" that bible they can "own" the absolute righteousness within it. They can have "answers" AND the certainty that their "answers" are absolutely right. And this is why the bible is the center of everything to the fundamentalist: because it's their source of "righteousness" and it's this idea of righteousness (certainty) that they crave - that is their "god".

You were on a roll until that last sentence. Nice try. Come again.
 

On Fire

New member
Originally posted by beanieboy

I agree with you, PureX.

AS, go back and play with your PS2. The grownups are trying to talk.

Oh, look...the two Hell-bound atheists agree with eachother. Isn't that CUTE!
 

On Fire

New member
Beanieboy, consider this a quiz:

You may be a fundy atheist if....

You became an atheist when you were 10 years old, based on ideas of God that you learned in Sunday School. Your ideas about God haven't changed since.
You think that the primary aim of an omnibenevolent God is for people to have FUN.
You believe that extra drippy ice-cream is a logical proof against the existence of God, because an omniscient God would know how to stop the ice-cream from being extra drippy, an omnipotent God would have the ability to stop the ice-cream from being extra drippy, and by golly, an omnibenevolent God wouldn't want your ice-cream to be extra drippy.
Although you've memorized a half a dozen proofs that He doesn't exist, you still think you're God's gift to the ignorant masses.
You believe the astronomical size of the universe somehow disproves God, as if God needed a tiny universe in order to exist.
You think questions like, "Can God create a rock so big that He cannot lift it?" and, "Can God will Himself out of existence?" are perfect examples of how to disprove God's omnipotence and ultimately how to disprove God. When someone proves to you the false logic behind the questions (i.e. pitting God's omnipotence against itself), you desperately try to defend the questions, but then give up and go to a different Christian site to ask them.
Related to the above, you spend a great deal of your spare time writing to Christian websites asking them these very questions.
You declare on a public forum that you are "furious at God for not existing."
You spend hours arguing that a-theism actually means "without a belief in God " and not just " belief that there is no god" as if this is a meaningful distinction in real life.
You consistently deny the existence of God because you personally have never seen him but you reject out of hand personal testimony from theists who claim to have experienced God as a reality in their lives.
You can make the existence of pink unicorns the centre-piece of a philosophical critique.
You insist that "the burden of proof is on he that alleges/accuses", and "it's impossible to prove a negative",then state "That's what Christians do. They lie. Their most common lie is that they were once atheists." When reminded about the burden of proof bit,you reply with, "Well,prove Christians don't lie!"
You adamantly believe that the "God of the gaps" idea is an essential tenet of orthodox Christian faith espoused by all the great Christian thinkers throughout history.
When you were a child, someone came down with a deadly disease and prayed and prayed for God to take it away. God did not remove the disease and your friend died. You ask other Christians why they had to die when they were such a nice person and never harmed anyone. Dissatisfied with their answers, you suddenly decide that there is no God and that all Christians are nothing but lying, conniving con artists and hypocrites....all that is except for your friend who died.
You call a view held by less than ten percent of the American public "common sense".
You're a spoiled fifteen year old boy who lives in the suburbs and you go into a chat room to declare that, "I know there is no God because no loving God would allow anyone to suffer as much as I...hold on. My cell phone's ringing."
You attack your fellow atheists, who hold the "belief that there is no god", calling them "liars," and state that, "I do not deny the existence of any god. I just don't believe in any." Then you tell someone that their God is "made up." When someone calls you on this,you state, "I never made such a claim."
Going with the definition of "without a belief in God",you insist that all people are born atheists, and that dogs, cats, rocks, and trees are as well. You make statements like, "My dog is an atheist. Ask him about his lack of belief."
You believe that if something cannot be touched, seen, heard, or measured in some way, then it must not exist, yet you fail to see the irony of your calling Christians "narrow-minded".


Origins
You may be a fundy atheist if....

You believe that planes, computers, calculators, compasses, etc, were "all obviously designed," yet the human body, being intricately more complex was "obviously a product of biological evolution." It seems the more complex the apparatus, the more obvious the "fact" that it was not designed.
You claim that evolution and the big bang are two entirely seperate theories that explain different aspects of the universe, yet, in what school of learning can you find any real separation or distinction between the two?
As a member of the Skeptic's Society you pride yourself on being skeptical of extraordinary claims. You also pride yourself on silencing everyone who is skeptical of the extraordinary claims of evolution.
Isaac Newton does not count as an example of a great scientist who believed in the Bible since he died before the Origin of Species was published.
When you watch a punt returner run a 93 yard touchdown, you marvel at what evolution has done for the human race. But when someone gets cancer, you blame God for it.
When you're discussing the origin of the world, the phrase "uncaused cause(God)" is a stupid, meaningless thing to say. You will, however, settle for "uncaused effect(the world without God)".
You descended from apes.(Think about it.)
You think that humans are products of chance but when it comes to human reason we can believe in logic! (Think about it !)
You think you arrived at your position because you are a free-thinker who rationally weighed the evidence, and then freely chose atheism over theism. YET, you also believe that your thinking and actions are nothing more than the FIXED reactions of the atoms in your brain that are governed by the Laws of Chemistry and Physics.
You love to castigate Christians for being "anti-science" if they deny evolution from goo to you via the zoo, and to preach that they should adapt their thinking to the "science" of our day. But you also castigate the Church of 400 years ago for being anti-science, when it DID adapt its thinking to the science of ITS day, i.e. Ptolemaic cosmology, then joined with the Aristotelian scientists of the universities in rejecting Galileo!
You think that some guy named "Dr Dino" with no scientific credentials represents mainstream Evangelical thinking and scholarship about evolution and creation, and thus by spending inordinate amounts of time attacking him you are somehow dismantling the arguments of scholarly dissenters from evolution, creationists with earned Ph. D.s in science, and of advocates of intelligent design.
You claim poker-faced that "social Darwinism" and its spawn of eugenics have absolutely no connection to the biological theories propounded by Charles Darwin in "On The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or The Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life"
You have recently stuck a Darwin fish on your car in the hopes the people with the Jesus fish on theirs will be offended.
You also claim that not only is there no connection between Darwin's theories and the doctrines of social Darwinism and eugenics (despite the fact that the term eugenics was coined and advocated by Darwin’s cousin Francis Galton, who acknowledged his debt to Origin), but that none of these philosophical positions have any connection to the modern fields of sociobiology and evolutionary psychology.
You can claim with as straight face on sites like Talk Origins that "Evolution does not have moral consequences" despite the fact that prominent evolutionary advocates like Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett vehemently assert that evolution does transcend biology in a way that has a profound effects upon ethics.
When the Pope says that God may have used evolution, he is an enlightened religious leader whom Christians should listen to. When the Pope preaches on the sanctity of human life from conception, and thus denounces abortion, he's just a senile religious bigot who should keep his opinions to himself.
Concerning the origins of life, you feel that though the chances of life forming without an intelligent creator are small it DID indeed happen that way. And yet you don't believe me when a rock, coming from my direction, hits you in the back of the head and I tell you, "I didn't throw it. There was a sudden shift in the earth's gravitational pull and the rock levitated into your head...Sure the chances are small but it DID happen that way."
When you're shown that your view of origins is silly, you can only respond, "Well...at least it's better than believing in some invisible SKY DADDY!"
When a Christian points out the impossibility of a biological system (or feature) forming by pure chance you accuse them of invoking a "God of the gaps". YET, when you are asked how a particular feature could come about solely by chance you invoke "Evolution of the gaps" (i.e., we don't know HOW but we do know that Evolution MUST have done it!)
You claim antibiotic-resistant bacteria is proof protozoa evolved into a person.
You insist that science is completely partial to all ideas, is not dogmatic and researches all possibilities -- except creationism and/or intelligent design.
You claim Creationists don't research on evolution websites before debating against it. Luckily you caught this useful weapon against Christians at the evolution site you learned all about creation doctrine from.
You think that every scientist who believes in Creationism and doesn't mindlessly accept evolution as a fact is a "kook," but you believe that Francis Crick (Nobel Prize winning co-discoverer of DNA), who reached into his nether regions and pulled out the "theory" of Directed Panspermia (which states with absolutely no support that aliens seeded the earth with life - see the movie "Mission to Mars"), is a great evolutionist scientist.
When a creationist points out problems with the evolutionist model you claim that the whole point of science is to answer problems like these. But if you can point out even one problem in the creationist model it should instantly be abandoned as absurd.
You are a person who absolutely believes that life came from nonlife, yet absolutely deny the possibility of anyone rising from the dead.
You won't bet $10 on the football game because a 50/50 chance isn't good enough, but you have no problem gambling with your life on the nearly impossible odds of a cell randomly generating from nothing.
Engaging the "slippery slope" fallacy, you think you can invalidate the whole bible by discrediting Genesis, since 'the whole bible either stands together or falls apart'. However, when a Creationist tries to invalidate the whole doctrine of naturalistic evolution by exposing the sheer improbability and lack of evidence of abiogenesis, you note this point as 'irrelevant'.
You think the movie “Inherit the Wind” best describes the eternal struggle of how an evolutionist is being treated by creationists in this religious society. And you can personally relate your life to the Scopes Monkey Trial.
You ignore “Time Magazine’s” poll, which states that only 28% of Americans believe in evolution. But of course, “Time Magazine” must been run by creationists.
You teach a belief only held by 28% of a nation, as truth beyond any shadow of a doubt because only educated people believe in evolution. Yet of course, you ignore that fully educated scientists in most other nations have proven against Darwinian theory. Like the Chinese paleontologist who reportedly says: "In China we can criticize Darwin but not the government. In America you can criticize the government but not Darwin."


History
You may be a fundy atheist if....

Any scholar who believes in a historical Jesus must be a theist. If they are an atheist, then they must secretly want to be a theist.
You insist that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", then claim that Jesus never existed.
You contend that no war in history has ever been created by non-belief. Yet, when you are told that 176 million people lost their lives in wars during the last century, created by non-believers like Stalin, Lenin, Mao and Hitler, to name only a few, you reply that those wars fought were fought in the name of ideology and not ‘atheism’ as atheists “…don’t fly planes into buildings or start wars.”
You accept (and quote back to Christians) any number of works that say Jesus wasn't the Son of God and call them "honest", "thought-provoking" and 'scholarly" proof, even when they completely contradict each other and come to completely different conclusions.
You believe that when our forefathers are framing the Constitution, they're staunch deists, but when they're beating their slaves, they're Bible-believing Christians.
You think that the Declaration of Independence is unconstitutional because it mentions "the creator".
On, that basis, You think that the Declaration is therefore void and the United States should return to British rule.
When it is returned to British rule, you plan to go straight to London and tell those Brits that having the Anglican church as a state church violates the constitutional separation of church and state.
When you use a historical point to prove Christianity is false (i.e., pagan parallel to Christianity), history is objective truth. When a Christian uses real historical scholarship to prove you false, history was written by subjective men and therefore cannot be trusted.
You reject what Cornelius Tacitus wrote about Jesus, dismissing it as "too late",but you readily accept what he wrote about Tiberius and Augustus.
100+ year old scholarship is good enough for you.
You always refer to C.S. Lewis as "that traitor."
You desperately wish that Stalin and Mao hadn't been atheists.
You absolutely insist a Christian recognize your nonscholar as an expert (G. A. Wells) but refuse to recognize his legimate scholar as expert (Colin Hemer).
You not only spell "God" with a lower case "g," but you also add an "E" to "B.C.," and replace the word "Christ" with an "x." Yet, when asked to name the planets you have no problem with spouting out the appropriate list of Roman Gods. Heck, you'll even spell them with capital letters! Not only that, you can even spell and pronounce the name of the 800-mile-diameter Trans-Neptunian Object ‘Quaoar’, and are delighted that it comes from the creation mythology of the Tongva people (aka the San Gabrielino Native Americans).
You think that religious wars have killed more people than any other kind of war, even though the largest wars of the last 200 years (World War I and II, Civil War, etc.) had no discernable religious causes.
You think that the Spanish Inquisition killed millions (or at least hundreds of thousands), even though the population of all of Spain at the time of the Inquisition was only about five million, and the actual total killed numbers about 2000. When informed of this, you accuse the informer of belittling or being insensitive to the deaths of 2000 individuals.
You bring up the alleged 'horrors' of the Spanish Inquisition to show how evil the church is. When shown that the SI was not the horror that it was painted to be, you switch gears and ask if the believer notes this because they think people are justified to feel moral revulsion with the Spanish Inquisition as it is commonly understood.
In a coffee table conversation you hear religion represented in a positive light. You immediately start preaching about the Inquisition and the Crusades to put things back on track. After all, "we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door".
You believe that Christians burned down the Great Library of Alexandria. When you learn that this was impossible, you assert that it is obvious that Christians did burn a lot of ancient books. When you are shown that this too is false, you wait a while, then make the same claim again, hoping that the person who corrected you with the facts won't notice.
You desperately confer with other skeptics to try and refute the evidence that Hitler's Holocaust was evolution-inspired, because, darn it, you just GOTTA prove that Hitler was a Christian.
You're convinced, despite evidence to the contrary, that Christianity was responsible for the Jewish holocaust because, dang it, that just SEEMS like something Christians would do.
You believe that Hitler claiming to be a Christian is undeniable proof that he was a Christian, while George Washington only claimed to be a Christian in order to win the people's favor.
You adamantly refuse to recognise the historical fact that "scientific atheism" was both a foundational philosophical position and an actual policy of the Soviet Union from the time of Lenin on, responsible for untold persecution, torture, suffering, humiliation and death far in excess of the numbers of the "victims" of Christianity.
On the other hand you further show your ignorance of history by constantly repeating "whoppers" about the numbers of victims of Christian Inquisitions, crusades and witchhunts dredged up from various unscholarly hate sites and passed off as historical fact.
For example...you can claim with a poker face that 9 MILLION women were put to death as witches by Christian fanatics in pre-Enlightenment Europe.
You assert that the 300 Protestants put to death under the reign of "Bloody Mary" in 16th century England stand as absolute proof of the inherent evil of Christianity but the tens upon tens of millions killed by Marxist regimes under Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot in the 20th century have absolutely NOTHING to do with the profound atheism inherent in these regimes.
You really believe that the Enlightenment made people more enlightened.
You think that Robert Green Ingersoll and Joseph McCabe are two of the greatest philosophers of religion ever to have lived - certainly far superior to nobodies like Thomas Aquinas or Blaise Pascal.
Indeed you believe that McCabe is "One of the giants of not only English Atheism, but world Atheism". [which could be construed as a slight on the intellectual quality of atheism].
You adhere to a false and fictionalised version of history gained from watching Hollywood movies such as Inherit the Wind so that you can (for example) conclude: "the controversy over creation and evolution was settled way back in 1925, when Clarence Darrow eviscerated William Jennings Bryan in a country courtroom in Dayton, Tennessee."
You continually argue that Hitler was a "real Christian" even when he and his fellow Nazis were slaughtering millions of people (and you "conveniently" ignore the very obvious distinction between someone claiming to be a Christian and someone actually living as a Christian, and the fact that the Nuremberg prosecutors denounced Nazism as fanatically ANTI-Christian!), but you deny that the scientists who rejected Galileo's work were real scientists.


Christians
You may be a fundy atheist if....

You think if a Christian won't address your arguments, they are too frightened to do so, or know they can't answer them; but if they do address your arguments, you think it is because they are "threatened" by them.
Missionaries who give up their personal comfort to aid starving, impoverished and persecuted third-world people are actually "corrupting ancient tribal cultures with western religious dogma", while you sit at home and complain about the price of KFC.
You believe that any Christian who claims to have once been an atheist is either lying or was never a "true atheist."
You think that John Shelby Spong is a reputable theologian but that Ben Witherington is merely an ignorant biblicist.
You assert that the crimes and failings of some Christians (acting inconsistently with the teachings of Christ at that!) disproves the whole edifice of Christianity but that the crimes and failings of some atheists (acting consistently with the fact that atheism can provide no basis for objective morality!) should on no account be held against the philosophy of atheism.
You assert that there is no absolute categories of good and evil, that all morals are merely personal, social and evolutionary constructs but then you can still describe Christians and Christianity as absolutely immoral, repugnant and evil and a danger to humanity and not feel even a twinge of hypocrisy at the monumental illogic of your position.
You think that Josh McDowell represents the apex of Christian scholarly apologetical thinking.
You lump all Christians in with whatever religious fruitcake is the flavour of the month, while living with the delusion that there are no atheistic weirdos out there.
You KNOW that religion causes violence and repeatedly tell this to everyone, hoping to save the world, but you don't believe that TV violence causes any real life violence. In fact, you are offended by this objection, and you have already started to figure out how to refute it. To increase your fundy factor, you have decided not to study social sciences. (Once you heard about Rodney Stark's For the Glory of God - you certainly would not bother reading it - you thought that sociologists were Christian fundamentalists in stealth mode, trying to push religious worldviews.
You think that taking the Bible seriously is the obsession of a fanatical fringe group of right-wing, extremist Christians who do not represent the views of the historic Church or of contemporary enlightened, liberal, skeptical "Christians" who according to you supposedly "fill" the mainstream churches and who on close inspection pretty much reflect your own politically correct views and values - and skepticism - about God. [Sort of like former Bishop Spong].
You claim that the theories and opinions of certain liberal scholars are absolute facts although you shy away from debating such issues with someone equally or better informed than you are.
You get angry when Christians tell you you're going to a place that you don't think exists.
You're convinced that people only believe in God because they're afraid of going to hell...despite the fact that if there is no God, then there's probably no hell either.
You consistently decry Christians for soliciting financial support yet find no problem in atheistic 'missionaries' doing the same thing."
You think that 'mission statements' on Christian websites proves the authors are biased which automatically renders the material on those sites weak and unscholarly yet you see no problem with 'mission statements' glorifying naturalism found on atheistic websites.
When a group of Sydney University (Australia) academics, including a historian, sign a public statement saying the Jesus Christ is "one of the great figures of history" and that his claims to be Son of God "bear up under closest scrutiny", this is a gross abuse of their position. But when Richard Dawkins uses his position as an Oxford professor to pontificate on his atheistic religion and related philosophical matters outside HIS field (animal behavior), that is a responsible use of academic freedom.
Further to the above, you're paranoid that these Christian academics will disciminate against you, even though their statement hasn't the remotest hint of that. But you applaud Michael Dini, a professor at Texas Tech, who refuses to recommend students for Medical School, even if they got "A"s in their courses, unless they not only understand but BELIEVE in goo-to-you evolution. And you're disgusted that creationist medical doctors have the gall to think they know more about medicine than Dini (who never practised medicine or even went to medical school), because by definition an evolutionist is more knowledgeable than a creationist on ANY subject!
You think Christians are narrow-minded for believing in only one religion, but atheists are open-minded for believing in absolutely none.
You believe that Christianity discriminates, because you have to join their religion in order to be a member of their religion.
You feel that Christians who go into atheist chat rooms are "shoving their beliefs down people's throats", and that atheists who go into Christian chat rooms are only trying to educate.
You think it is a "slam dunk" proof against God when you ask why He doesn't stop horrible things like, i.e., child rape, but evade the reply that you obviously don't want God stopping your own sins by pointing out that it isn't your problem because you don't believe in God in the first place.
You are disgusted with Doctor Paul Vitz’s book “Faith of the Fatherless: The Psychology of Atheism” because an educated person with a degree has linked atheism as a psychological condition. Yet, you have no remorse when you tell believers that they are a product of brainwashing, psycho conditioning and wishful thinking.
You believe Freud’s theory that all religious experiences are delusions, as the most revolutionary and truthful thought of all times. Yet, you overlook his heavy use of cocaine because “it can’t be proven.”
You recommend Michael Shermer’s book “How We Believe” to all of your friends who are believers and believe that somehow his opinion will give insight into how we actually think. Yet of course, you ignore that Shermer doesn’t have any education in Anthropology. Must be a coincidence.
You’re stupid enough to think atheists are treated like second-class citizens. Yet of course, you spend most of your day belittling Christians and other religious people.
You're convinced that all Christians are idiots. But when you meet the "rare" Christian who's clearly intelligent, you can only conclude that he was fooled into believing...by the idiots.


Contemporary events
You may be a fundy atheist if....

You demand that theists explain news items where bad things have happened to theists, even though no theists on the board have claimed that belief in God is some kind of a lucky charm that wards off bad luck.
You demand that theists explain news items where theists do bad things, even though no theists on the board have claimed that it is impossible for theists to do bad things.
The only Commandments you know are the ones that are unconstitutional.
You can't remember if she was Mother or Sister Teresa, but you can name every pedophile priest listed in the media over the last seven years.
You feel that Marilyn Manson is really, really profound.
You think the song "Dear God" by XTC is really, really, really................really meaningful.
You are funding or filming a movie called “Heart of the Beholder” a Secular Humanist movie telling a true story of a video store renting out the movie “The Last Temptation of Christ.” The fundamentalist Christian community is in protest of this store renting this movie out. Of course, you also create the image that all Christians were not only opposed to this movie but the fact that with less then 10% of your nation who actually believes in secular philosophy, this movie is actually going to make money. The filmmakers might be suffering from the same kind of false hope they think believers are.
You believe that emotional response interferes with rational thinking. Yet, you think George Carlin is the greatest comedian of all times, because he makes you laugh.
You're saving up to move to some more enlightened place, like Sweden.
You feel that the separation of church and state is a much more important issue than abortion, euthanasia, or infanticide.
You label any change whatsoever in Christian theology or behavior as 'secularization.'
You were too sophisticated to be afraid of (very real) "Reds under the bed" but you nevertheless see Christians behind every act of "evil" in the western world.
You deface money by scribbling God off of dollar bills.
You think God was cruel for killing all of those innocent babies in the flood, and that Christians are cruel for opposing a woman's right to abort her baby.
You think that Reverend Fred Phelps does what he does because of his Christianity, but Reverend Fred Rogers did what he did in spite of his Christianity.


Bible criticism
You may be a fundy atheist if....

You become upset when a Christian says that not everything in the Bible should be taken literally.
You dislike how liberal theists try to interpret the Bible for themselves, while you create your own interpretations of the Bible for yourself: (a) Exodus 34 contains a new set of 10 Commandments; (b) Jesus asked His disciples to slay all His enemies.
You have actually calculated, for purposes of "argument by outrage," an estimate of the number of people drowned in The Flood.
You can quote from the bible better than most missionaries...at least the parts where someone dies.
You label all scholars that actually believe the Bible as "biased fundies" while those who don't believe it are known as "honest" and "accepted scholarship."
You insist that the Bible cannot possibly say anything about homosexuality being a sin, because they did not even have a concept of homosexuality at the the Bible was written...then insist that the Bible says that David and Jonathan were married.
......AND you produce a long list of verses containing the words "children","touching",and "bowels".
You think you have refuted the whole Trilemma because you've added another alternative to it.
You dismiss any attempt to harmonize the resurrection accounts by saying "one says A, the other says B, but none say A+B", then go on to offer your own elaborate conspiracy theory of what happened to the Jesus' body, describing A+B+C+D, none of which are said ANYWHERE let alone together.
You think that Isaac Asimov was a world-class authority in Biblical Studies.
You make a point of referring to Jesus as "Yeshua" and to God as "Yahveh" in order to hint that they are no different from Molech or Baal.
You use one,or more,of the following alternate spellings: GOD-"gawd" JESUS-"jeeezus" "jayzus" "jebus" "jeebers" BIBLE-"bibble" "babble" "wholly babble" "buy-bull"
You refer to the crucifixion of Jesus as the "cruci-fiction".
When a Christian's interpretation of a passage (based on the social/literary context) solves one of your favorite contradictions, it is only their personal interpretation, and can be dismissed as such. But your interpretation (based on a "plain" reading of the text) to arrive at the contradiction in the first place is entirely objective, and is obviously THE correct interpretation.
Your only knowledge of The Bible comes from searching 'bible contradictions' in Google.
Everytime you don't understand a passage in The Bible, instead of trying to figure it out you blame God for not writting it better.
You think that God would have made things a lot clearer for everyone, ranging from the medieval knight to the Chinese peasant, had He inspired His Word in modern English in words and concepts you could understand. You also ask, when told of the scarceness of paper in the ancient world, why God didn't provide enough paper to write a longer story.
You adamantly believe that "the Bible says pi equals 3" in 1 Kings 7:23 even though: (1) the verse does not make the slightest reference to the calculation of pi, (2) there are more measurements of the bowl from that verse in subsequent verses, (3) the bowl in question could very likely not have been a "perfect" circle with "perfect" measurements, (4) it's not unusual for ancient peoples using ancient tools (or even modern peoples using modern tools) to use round, easy to remember numbers, (5) asking an online math forum results in a refutation of your belief but you ignore what professional mathematicians plainly say (including that the Bible is not in error in this place) and twist their words to make it appear as if they are backing your assertion in order to continue to justify your belief (not that you ever had any intention of doing otherwise in the first place).
You consistently appear on discussion lists demanding that Christians accept your literal interpretation of various scriptural passages just so you can then launch into the usual "argument by outrage" - despite being told over and over that no Bible scholar or school of Christianity shares your particular bizarre literal interpretation.
You pontificate about the Bible as if you are an expert in theology, textual criticism, ancient languages & cultures and much more besides, when your knowledge of the Bible is just cut and paste from atheist discussion lists which cut and paste it from atheist websites which cut and paste it from embarrassingly unscholarly rantings by the likes of Messer's Freke & Gandy and Acharya S., etc.
You can quote Acharya S, Kersey Graves, John Remsburg,and Earl Doherty more fluently than Laurence Olivier could quote Shakespeare.
You create a web site: http://www.EvilBible.com,and post an Evil Bible Quote of the Day on usenet. The quotes always end with: "What kind of person would get their moral guidance from an ancient book of myths and magic that says it is OK to murder, rape, pillage, and plunder?"
You decry Christian missionaries for denying cultural relativism; denouncing their efforts to reform cannibalism, slavery and fear of animist spirits as judgmental intolerance. But your attacks on the Bible merely comprise anguished cries of "how barbaric" rather than reasoned arguments; and ignore all considerations of ritual cleanness, the evils of the Canaanites and the fact that ancient society was always one step from anarchy.
You think Secular Humanism actually promotes religious tolerance. Secular Humanism only tolerates religion; it doesn’t accept it.
You claim to hold no Dogma. Yet, you’re just as rigid and stubborn with your beliefs as any Dogmatists.
Archaeology continually frustrates your attempts to find errors and contradictions in the Bible, but you continually use the same outdated accusations anyway since you're running out of material.
The only reason you go to hear a concert pianist play Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata is to complain to him afterwards about the name. Obviously it was chosen as part of a conspiracy to hide the fact that the Bible's mentions of the moon giving light were errors rather than phenomenological language.
You visit a planetarium, but afterwards complain bitterly to the director that it uses the Earth as a convenient reference frame, and portrays the Earth as the center of a celestial sphere with the heavenly bodies revolving around it. This, and his use of the words "sunset" and "sunrise", is another part of the conspiracy to legitimize the Bible's use of such language.
When you go to bookstores, you move all the Bibles to the "fiction" section.
You insist on capitalizing "atheist".
You take the lack of evidence for the Jesus story being a hoax as evidence that Christians got rid of all the evidence.
You claim that there is no way a book thousands of years old can be relevant today, but refuse to do the necessary homework to see how it could apply in modern situations, preferring instead to argue that God should have provided an updated version.
You respond to arguments about the different points of view in the society of the ancient world by calling ancient people and their way of thinking "stupid".
You once heard something about some document in the Catholic Church which says the resurrection never happened. And despite your never having seen it or even met anyone who claims to have seen it (and despite having no idea who wrote it, when they wrote it, or what exactly it says), you're convinced that this document is far more reliable than the Gospels and thus disproves Christianity, and that the church is hiding it so that they can keep the money rolling in.
You believe that priests are only in it for the money, despite the fact that they make less than almost anyone else with their level of education.


General atheism vs. theism
You may be a fundy atheist if....

You find you have a grudging respect for fundy theists for 'sticking to their guns' even while complaining they don't think for themselves.
'Thinking for yourself' means adopting an atheist viewpoint.
When you say "I don't know" you are being brave and honest. When a theist says "I don't know" they are being dishonest and are trying to dodge the question.
When your thoughts on any complex matter are sensible and clear, and a theist's thoughts on any complex matter are mental gymnastics.
You leave 'freethought' tracts lying around, like the littering missionaries.
If someone says 'God Bless' when you sneeze, you make them 'take it back!'
Although you are a 'free-thinker' and 'rational' person, you lose all reason when reading The Bible.
It is OK for atheists to express their godless opinions but the moment Christians do the same you email the ACLU.
You think religious tolerence does not applies to Christians.
You debate (argue, vilify, etc.) as if every theist was a Jack Chick fan, and as if every Biblical inerrantist was a Ruckmanite who believes that the KJV was specially inspired.
You think that Christianity is a 'virulent memeplex' and that atheism is the 'cure.'
You're infuriated by the term "village atheist." You prefer "right-thinking urban humanist."
You can gladly believe any number of conflicting philosophical positions, as long as they're atheistic!
You start a local Atheists and Agnostics Society, the goal of which is to prove through good deeds that atheists and agnostics can be just as generous and caring as some Christians are. When nobody joins, and the club eventually unfolds, you are flustered. You have no idea why a group of people who by definition do not base their morality on anything greater than their own ideas wouldn't jump at the chance to be self-sacrificing for no logical reason.
You get a big kick out of either spamming online Christian forums with offensive material or posing as a grossly over-the-top parody of a Christian on such websites.
You don't realize that Landmark Baptist Church's website is a parody.
Even when you do realize it is a parody, you think that it's implied arguments are suitable for use as a reply rather than Biblical scholarship.
You call God "she" in the presence of Christians simply out of sheer spite.
You create an Atheist Missionary organization and then call it a thinktank, in a small town in virginia. Then you heap scorn on Christians for "proselytizing" (Just think about if for a minute, hypocrites!).
You are part of a non-belief organization such as American Atheists, Church of Freethought, Humanist Association of Canada, Student Freethought Alliance and/or the Council of Secular Humanism. You claim these organizations have absolutely no creeds and that the people involved independently think of different things from one another. Yet of course, on your organization's website they define the commonalities that all non-believers follow. Is that not the definition of creed?
You think that spamming Christian chatgroups and discussion lists with expletives and insults demonstrates superior free-thinking, rational, atheistic logic.
You think that it is possible to talk meaningfully about "good and evil" "right and wrong" when decrying the sins of the Church while simultaneously subscribing to the notion that neither sin nor good and evil exist as ultimate categories but only as personal and social constructs.
You have never pondered the question: why does a smart guy like Richard Dawkins regularly give atheists a bad name by putting his foot in his mouth with his inane and ridiculous pronouncements about God and religion?
You have never pondered the question: why did a really smart guy like Bertrand Russell write such a pathetically limp, uninformed and adolescent critique of Christianity in "Why I Am Not A Christian"?
You assert that "faith is believing things which you know aren't true".
You really "believe" that many human beings actually believe things they know aren't true.
You believe the movie Dogma gives the most accurate portrayal of Christian theology.
You feel that prefacing your responses to Christians with the word bull$#@! somehow makes your argument a little more valid.
You take a self-righteous pedantic "stand on principle" against Christian apologists writing under pseudonyms, but always refer to the "Endarkenment" French infidel writer François Marie Arouet by HIS pseudonym "Voltaire".
You find the term 'fundy atheist' meaningless, baffling, illogical and just plain oxymoronic/self-contradictory even though the two terms are not exclusive of each other (except in the minds of fundy atheists, of course).

You've ever called a Christian a "Paulian".
You deny that someone can possibly know they know the truth ('It's just belief, not knowledge,") while at the same time claiming to know the truth.
You write books like Warren Allen Smith’s “Who’s Who In Hell: A Handbook and International Directory for Humanists, Freethinkers, Naturalists, Rationalists and Non-Theists.” You label 10,000 of these famous non-believers, as good, peaceful people who will be rotting in hell because they are or were infidels. While of course you also fail to realize that for every 10,000 of the world’s peaceful non-believers, anyone can come up with a book that lists 10,000 peaceful, loving and famous historical believers. Of course, you also fail to realize that you’ve wasted your time researching 10,000 historical and modern names just because you want people to think ‘peaceful’ people will be rotting in an afterlife that you don’t believe exists.


You may be a fundy atheist if....

You have your own list of how to tell who is a Christian that itself runs on Fundy Atheist principles.
You get apoplectic about being called a Fundy Atheist for believing all those self-evidently true propositions above. And you label all theists as "fundies".
Last of all -- you write this website a letter which includes a rebuttal to the above listing!
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
The record of humans fighting with one another goes back to the day that Cain slew his brother, Abel. We'll be fighting until The Lord returns to this earth to take command of it, and bring peace, finally, under His Perfect Rule. You don't have to be a fundamentalist to be self-righteous, but it does seem to magnify the, "I'm holier than you are," attitude to it's most evident form. Each of us tries to stand taller than his brother by standing on his back, instead of trying to lift one another up, as we have been instructed. We are supposed to be "our brother's keeper," not our brother's accuser. Every single one of us (humans), except for Jesus, has been disobedient and sinned, and fall short of The Glory of God, daily.
 
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