What if climate change is real and human caused--what should Christians do about it?

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian suggests:
Check out what's happened to insurance rates for homes on the Gulf Coast.

That's what they get for living on the edge of the ocean. Natives warned us about that.

The natives knew that we'd be messing with the climate?

 

[genuineoriginal]

The Little Ice Age; was it big enough to be global?
Determining the reasons for the Little Ice Age is quite a challenge.
http://jrscience.wcp.muohio.edu/Weather/PaperProposalArticles/TheLittleIceAgewasitbigen.html

I am sure it is a challenge to find ways to deny the causes of the Little Ice Age when they do not match predictions based on tiny fluctuations of the amount of a trace gas in the atmosphere.

Stronger hurricanes are a prediction of global warming. And the drier conditions in the west are also.

There are no "Stronger hurricanes" nor "drier conditions in the west"

There is plenty of real evidence of catastrophic events in the past that exceed what we are seeing now.
Hurricanes were both stronger and weaker in the past.
Conditions in the west were both drier and wetter in the past.
And, the exciting thing about that real evidence is that it does not have any correlation to tiny fluctuations in the amount of a trace gas in the atmosphere.

 

[The Barbarian]

I am sure it is a challenge to find ways to deny the causes of the Little Ice Age when they do not match predictions based on tiny fluctuations of the amount of a trace gas in the atmosphere.

It's just a fact. The "Little Ice Age" was arguably not a world-wide phenomenon, and seems to have been a consequence of changes in the Gulf Stream. On the other hand, it was associated with a sunspot minimum which does cause cooling. Incidentally, we are now in a minimum, but instead of cooling off, as such minima historically have been shown to do, we are getting record high temperatures for the Earth each year.

There are no "Stronger hurricanes"

We are now seeing a pattern of larger and more destructive hurricanes. No point in denying the fact. That's why insurance rates are climbing on the Gulf Coast.

The intensity of North Atlantic hurricanes and the number of Category 4 and 5 hurricanes have increased since the 1980s.These increases are due in part to warmer sea surface temperatures in the areas where Atlantic hurricanes form and pass through.

https://www.neefusa.org/nature/water/increased-hurricane-intensity

nor "drier conditions in the west"

You're wrong on that, too...
http://nca2014.globalchange.gov/report/regions/great-plains

And, the exciting thing about that real evidence is that it does not have any correlation to tiny fluctuations in the amount of a trace gas in the atmosphere.

This just isn't your day, I guess...

 

[Derf]

This is a rather interesting video. It allows for the possibility that nature will deal with our trash in some cases, but suggests that we can minimize our use of non-biodegradable materials. Look at 10:17.

It also talks about whole islands that have been constructed from trash and made beautiful using those skills God gave us in the garden.

I apologize for the reference to trees that nothing knew how to decompose 400 million years ago.

 

[gcthomas]

Okay.


Here is a Biblical for-instance:
Let's say that one of the problems causing catastrophic climate change is God wrath against mankind's sin. If we outlaw or severely limit such sin, we run the risk of upsetting a lot of people who want to continue sinning, but we fulfill loving our neighbor by trying to save them from their sins. On the other hand, if we do nothing, God's wrath will only increase and many people will be destroyed and He will hold their sin against us because we didn't try to save them from their sins. The correct response should be obvious.


Since we coming out of an ice age, it would make sense to think there is a warming trend.
We haven't reached climate optimum yet, so a warming trend is a good thing.

The climate optimum was reached 5000 years ago. We are not "coming out" of an ice age that ended 12 000 years ago.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Yes, He can. But will He?

Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. [Gen 2:15 NKJV]

God didn't need Adam to tend and keep the garden, since He could just supernaturally prune and rake and whatever else Adam was supposed to do.

Neither does God need any help to judge, but Paul said we will judge the world and angels. 1Co 6:2-3

Neither did Jesus need 12 legions of angels to rescue Him from the cross (Mat 26:53). But they were there, ready to do so.

Neither does He need 144,000...

Why? Why would God ever want men or angels to do what He could do in an instant, by His mere word?

Well actually the 144,000 who will reign with Jesus on Earth in the Millennial reign will have resurrected bodies like Jesus' and like Adam and Eve had and will also be able to preform miracles as well, such as restoring the Earth. A bit like when Adam tended the garden, although that didn't last very long.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The intensity of North Atlantic hurricanes and the number of Category 4 and 5 hurricanes have increased since the 1980s.
https://www.neefusa.org/nature/water/increased-hurricane-intensity

Global warming hoaxers love to pretend that climate began in the 1980s.

This just isn't your day, I guess...

Your image is based on the distortion of temperature that was done by Mann in order to create his famous "hockey stick" graph.
One major part of the graph that is wrong is changing the data source of the base temperatures in the 1980s.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The climate optimum was reached 5000 years ago. We are not "coming out" of an ice age that ended 12 000 years ago.

Wrong ice age. Try again.

 

[The Barbarian]

(Barbarian notes that increasing ocean temperatures have led to an increase in hurricane severity)

Global warming hoaxers love to pretend that climate began in the 1980s.

Someone suckered you on that story. Anthropogenic warming goes back to the beginning of the industrial revolution. Would you like to learn about that?

Your image is based on...

...actual data from temperature stations. And it is very closely matched by several other sources of data. Would you like to learn about those?

One major part of the graph that is wrong is changing the data source of the base temperatures in the 1980s.

Well, let's see how much of a correction there was...

They didn't tell you that, um?

 

[Stripe]

Let's say we spread all 11 billion people out evenly across the surface of the earth. Each person would get approximately 3.35 acres of land. If you subtract out the uninhabitable land, it's more like 1.5 acres per person. Is that enough for each person to feed themselves? I don't know--it might be, as long as it isn't mostly concrete.

I'm sure they'll work something out. :idunno:

And 1.5 acres per person sounds like an awful lot of space.

You mentioned that regulations are the reason you don't want to talk about polar bears and plastic bags. But saying we can't talk about polar bears and plastic bags is a regulation you want to impose. Why do you get to impose regulations, but don't want anyone to impose them on you?

I think you misunderstand. You spoke about the Biblical history of the planet. I regard that as a worthwhile thing to discuss. However, the discussion is almost always centered around the liberals' idea of what is wrong and how to fix it. Their solution is always to impose regulations.

I'm not against regulations; I just know they never solve any problems.

If you want to do away with regulations.

I don't want to do away with regulations.

 

[The Barbarian]

And 1.5 acres per person sounds like an awful lot of space.

Think of a square about 100 meters on a side. This to provide housing, crops for food and animals to eat and graze (assuming you don't want to be a vegetarian), and water. Streets, utility easements, etc. would have to come out of that as well, not to mention hospitals, stores, and the like. Sounds pretty cramped to me.

 

[Stripe]

Sounds pretty cramped to me.

:rotfl:

You've obviously never lived in a city.

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[Stripe]

Think of a square about 100 meters on a side.

Think of a square about 120m on a side.

That's what we have today*.

*Using your number, which is not overly accurate.

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[gcthomas]

:rotfl:

You've obviously never lived in a city.

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Cities are surrounded by farmland for a reason, numpty.

 

[gcthomas]

Wrong ice age. Try again.

There hasn't been one since. There was a cold spell in the Northern latitudes often called the Little Ice Age, but it wasn't actually an ice age of course. Which ice age were you thinking of?

 

[Jonahdog]

:rotfl:

You've obviously never lived in a city.

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You obviously cannot think beyond the next 5 seconds.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Think of a square about 120m on a side.

Stipe writes:

That's what we have today. Using your number, which is not overly accurate.

There's a principle in science, Stipe. It's used by anyone for whom precision matters. Goes like this:

"Measure with a micrometer. Mark with a pencil. Cut with an axe."

If that puzzles you, let me know and I'll explain it to you.

Keep in mind, what we have today, involves massive famine in numberous areas, social upheaval caused by crowding and lack of resources, and so on.

Those of us who are lucky enough to have a disproportionate amount of resources don't represent the norm. If we all shared equally, there's be enough.

But socialism has its own issues. Might be easier to take control of our own fates, and not let nature decide how to reduce populations.

 

[Stripe]

Cities are surrounded by farmland for a reason, numpty.

Then go live on a farm, dumpty.

Barbarian observes: Think of a square about 120m on a side.

:rotfl:

There's no helping you, is there?

There's a principle in science, Stipe. It's used by anyone for whom precision matters. Goes like this:Measure with a micrometer. Mark with a pencil. Cut with an axe.If that puzzles you, let me know and I'll explain it to you.

So why did you estimate 1.5 acres to be 10,000m²?

Did you forget your own nonsense mantra?

If we all shared equally, there's be enough. But socialism has its own issues. Might be easier to take control of our own fates, and not let nature decide how to reduce populations.

You're a bundle of contradictions, aren't you?

Guess where population control was practiced most aggressively?

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[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
If we all shared equally, there's be enough. But socialism has its own issues. Might be easier to take control of our own fates, and not let nature decide how to reduce populations.

You're a bundle of contradictions, aren't you?

Sounds like Stipe realized the argument isn't going his way. Let's see what he comes up with.

Guess where population control was practiced most aggressively?

By nature. Malthus pointed out that all populations will tend to grow faster than the ability to feed them. So overpopulation will come to an end, either by nature killing people off through famine, disease or war (which is almost always over limited resources), or by humans taking charge of their own fates by keeping population in check.

The good news is that as a population prospers, the fertility rate drops and approaches equilibrium. The bad news is that prosperity is not the norm in the world today.

So there you are. One or the other, Stipe.

 

[Stripe]

One or the other.

What ultimatum are you pushing now?

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