Were Early Church Fathers Young Earth Creationists?

[Crucifer]

As stated in the Op... The point is to refute theistic evolutionists who claim the early church fathers believed in an old earth... they didn't.

Except theistic evolutionists don't make that claim.
The early church fathers are not the final authority on the matter either, especially concerning science.
Modern science didn't exist in their time- just because they had theological insight doesn't mean they knew all about the physical world.

Would you trust them medically over modern medicine? they believed illness and aging were due to an imbalance of bile and that disease spread through putrid smells and demonic presence- and the reason being is because, again, they kept trying to use scriptures as a basis for science.

 

[Stripe]

Theistic evolutionists don't make that claim.

Only all the time.

 

[Crucifer]

Only all the time.

According to what, something you read once or heard someone say? Seems very anecdotal to me because it doesn't even make sense that theistic evolutionists would be turning to early church fathers when there's no way they could know the difference anyhow.

You all talk about the supposed importance of a young earth to the Bible, but what about the importance of evolution and physical science that has led to medical advances and technology? Do they not have a basis for how they work?
The way I see it you're just abusing scripture to make cheap shots at human discoveries- which is unfair and ridiculous. It's not theistic evolutionists that are harming belief but rather you trying to create problems where there are none.

 

[Stripe]

According to what?

Plenty of discussions on this site have involved Darwinists declaring that so-and-so was anti-YEC.

Also: http://spch.uksw.edu.pl/index.php?o...lucjonist&catid=70:artykuy&Itemid=265&lang=en

It doesn't even make sense that theistic evolutionists would be turning to early church fathers when there's no way they could know the difference anyhow.

Have you ever heard us accuse Darwinists of making sense?

You all talk about the supposed importance of a young earth to the Bible, but what about the importance of evolution and physical science that has led to medical advances and technology?

There's no advantage for science in people holding to belief in a theory as fact. In fact, it's disadvantageous.

The way I see it you're just abusing scripture to make cheap shots at human discoveries- which is unfair and ridiculous. It's not theistic evolutionists that are harming belief but rather you trying to create problems where there are none.

What problems? :idunno:

 

[Crucifer]

What problems? :idunno:

Try to create a modern computer or vaccine without knowledge of evolution or physics.
Use nothing but scriptures and see how far it gets you.

 

[Stripe]

Try to create a modern computer ... without knowledge of evolution.

:rotfl:

Use nothing but scriptures and see how far it gets you.

Try to stick with rational challenges. This sort of nonsense only undermines your credibility.

 

[6days]

Except theistic evolutionists don't make that claim.

Sure they do...all the time.

The early church fathers are not the final authority on the matter either, especially concerning science.

It has nothing to do with science. They were defending the gospel against old earth beliefs.... Contrary to the claims of many theistic evolutionists.

 

[Stripe]

It has nothing to do with science.

Wait. I'm still trying to get Facebook working by randomly attaching wires and lights.

 

[6days]

... what about the importance of evolution and physical science that has led to medical advances and technology?

Common ancestry beliefs have NEVER lead to a single medical advancement nor any new technology.
* That false belief system has hindered science declaring organs useless that weren't...declaring DNA to be junk, that is functional...that false belief system has hindered science by labelling genes as useless relics ('psuedogenes'). Common ancestry beliefs have harmed people with beliefs that led to Scientific racism and even genocides.
* Common ancestry has never led to any new technology.

What does lead to new technology and medical advancements is science. (Studying mutation rates, genetic drift, DNA etc).

Furthermore... Common ancestry beliefs have led millions of youth from Christian families, away from relationship with our Savior. When kids are taught that they don't need to believe Genesis, they also then feel free to reject virgin birth, the resurrection, the flood and more. (PEW Research). Darwinism is toxic to our faith in Jesus.

 

[Stripe]

Try to create a modern computer or vaccine without knowledge of evolution or physics.
Use nothing but scriptures and see how far it gets you.

Also, why is this a "problem"?

 

[Crucifer]

Common ancestry beliefs have NEVER lead to a single medical advancement nor any new technology.

According to people who know nothing about it.

Furthermore... Common ancestry beliefs have led millions of youth from Christian families, away from relationship with our Savior. When kids are taught that they don't need to believe Genesis, they also then feel free to reject virgin birth, the resurrection, the flood and more. (PEW Research). Darwinism is toxic to our faith in Jesus.

It's led millions of people who didn't really believe in anything in the first place. You would understand that if you stopped judging who and who isn't a Christian based on how much of a boy scout they are.

 

[Crucifer]

:rotfl:


Try to stick with rational challenges. This sort of nonsense only undermines your credibility.

Dude, you just flat out beat a straw man and purposefully edited what I stated.

Don't talk about 'rational'- in fact I think I found my first subject on here not to get involved with. You're all in extreme denial.

 

[Stripe]

According to people who know nothing about it.

That's right. Anyone who doesn't buy into Darwinism wholesale must be ignorant.

 

[Stripe]

Dude, you just flat out beat a straw man and purposefully edited what I stated.

Would you prefer I accidentally edited it?

Don't talk about 'rational'- in fact I think I found my first subject on here not to get involved with. You're all in extreme denial.

Bye. :wave:

 

[JudgeRightly]

Common ancestry beliefs have NEVER lead to a single medical advancement nor any new technology.
* That false belief system has hindered science declaring organs useless that weren't...declaring DNA to be junk, that is functional...that false belief system has hindered science by labelling genes as useless relics ('psuedogenes').

*cough cough* Eugenie Scott *cough*

:mock:

Common ancestry beliefs have harmed people with beliefs that led to Scientific racism and even genocides.
* Common ancestry has never led to any new technology.

What does lead to new technology and medical advancements is science. (Studying mutation rates, genetic drift, DNA etc).

Furthermore... Common ancestry beliefs have led millions of youth from Christian families, away from relationship with our Savior. When kids are taught that they don't need to believe Genesis, they also then feel free to reject virgin birth, the resurrection, the flood and more. (PEW Research). Darwinism is toxic to our faith in Jesus.

:thumb:

 

[JudgeRightly]

According to people who know nothing about it.



It's led millions of people who didn't really believe in anything in the first place. You would understand that if you stopped judging who and who isn't a Christian based on how much of a boy scout they are.

Name one medical advancement that came about as a result of darwinistic beliefs.

I'll wait.

In the meantime...

The first thing off the top of my head that pops up when I think of medical advancements that came out of an understanding that there IS A CREATOR God who made us is...

Drumroll please...

...

The MRI, and even more recently, the upright version of it.

 

[Apple7]

You have been decieved by Hugh Ross it seems. As shown in the OP, the early church fathers almost universally argued for a young earth. Ross wants you to believe Genesis is peripheral, yet it it is the foundation to the Gospel and virtually every Christian doctrine.
Apple... You need do a wee bit of research. Many of the names you use are young earth creationists. Perhaps read the OP where quotes are provided.

Clearly, you have not done your research in this area.

Ross takes Genesis literally, and he shows that most of the early church fathers believed in something LARGER than '24 hr' creation days.

For example Augustine said "Unbelievers are also deceived by false documents which ascribe to history many thousand years, although we can calculate from Sacred Scripture that not 6,000 years have passed since the creation of man."

No where in scripture does it command the reader to sum dates to arrive at a creation date.

People who do this are also likely to be 'predicting' the end times as well.

Waste of time..

 

[JudgeRightly]

Clearly, you have not done your research in this area.

Ross takes Genesis literally, and he shows that most of the early church fathers believed in something LARGER than '24 hr' creation days.

And yet, we can know that Genesis 1 is speaking of a literal 24-hour day just by the context.

No where in scripture does it command the reader to sum dates to arrive at a creation date.

Straw man/red herring. No one claims such.

Yet...

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter. - Proverbs 25:2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs25:2&version=NKJV

People who do this are also likely to be 'predicting' the end times as well.

Waste of time..

Red herring.
Hasty generalization.
Poisoning the well.

Take your pick.

As for how old the universe is... We can know that it is around 7000 years old.

We know the Flood of Noah happened around 3290 B.C. (±100)*. Doing the math on the genealogies provided in Genesis gets us the rest of the way.

*See In the Beginning by Dr. Walt Brown, or go to http://kgov.com/hydroplate-theory

 

[Apple7]

And yet, we can know that Genesis 1 is speaking of a literal 24-hour day just by the context.

The Hebrew day is marked from evening to evening.

The Gen 'days' mention evening and morning...which is 12hrs, at best...

As for how old the universe is... We can know that it is around 7000 years old.

Got a smartphone?

The same physics that goes into making it work states that the Universe is billions of years old.

We know the Flood of Noah happened around 3290 B.C. (±100)*. Doing the math on the genealogies provided in Genesis gets us the rest of the way.

*See In the Beginning by Dr. Walt Brown, or go to http://kgov.com/hydroplate-theory

Where does the OT mention 'doing the math'...?

 

[SabathMoon]

The same physics that goes into making it [the smartphone] work states that the Universe is billions of years old.

This is not true at all.