nikolai_42
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That's not the way I read John 1:
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:14
ECT Was the man Jesus God before He was Glorified . . .
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That's not the way I read John 1:
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:14
genuineoriginal
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Not quite.
God is not under Jesus.
1 Corinthians 15:27 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. |
King James Version (KJV)
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
This is the answer to your OP.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
This is the answer to your OP.
Cross Reference
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In that day of God's choosing will Jesus become the complete Godhead in glorified Human form. God said that, not me.
Cross Reference
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.
genuineoriginal
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No, God did not say that.
Paul said this about Jesus:
Colossians 2:9 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. |
Paul said this about believers:
1 Corinthians 3:16 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? |
Having the Holy Spirit dwelling in you does not make you the Holy Spirit.
Neither does Jesus having the fullness of divinity dwelling in Him make Him God.
genuineoriginal
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Is that different than the word of God being made light in Genesis 1:3?
genuineoriginal
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It seems to me that many Christians make the mistake of looking in the Bible to see if it says something they want it to say instead of looking in the Bible to find out the many things that it says.
For example:
Some people are looking for the Bible to make statements about the Trinity, they see these verses, and say it is talking about the Trinity.
People that let the verses speak for themselves say it is talking about how God in heaven is sending the Holy Spirit to Jesus, the Son of God.
The verses do not say Jesus is the Spirit, the verses say the Spirit came down from the heavens and touched down upon Jesus.
The verses do not say Jesus is God, the verses say that the voice from heaven, implied to be God, said that Jesus was His son and He was pleased with Jesus.
The verses do not say the Spirit is God, the verses say that the Spirit of God came down from the heavens, followed by a voice from heaven, which is implied to be God's voice.
If we are not handling the Word of God with an emphasis on the actual words written in the Bible, then we are mishandling God's Word, which leads directly to heresy.
For example:
Matthew 3:16-17 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. |
Some people are looking for the Bible to make statements about the Trinity, they see these verses, and say it is talking about the Trinity.
People that let the verses speak for themselves say it is talking about how God in heaven is sending the Holy Spirit to Jesus, the Son of God.
The verses do not say Jesus is the Spirit, the verses say the Spirit came down from the heavens and touched down upon Jesus.
The verses do not say Jesus is God, the verses say that the voice from heaven, implied to be God, said that Jesus was His son and He was pleased with Jesus.
The verses do not say the Spirit is God, the verses say that the Spirit of God came down from the heavens, followed by a voice from heaven, which is implied to be God's voice.
If we are not handling the Word of God with an emphasis on the actual words written in the Bible, then we are mishandling God's Word, which leads directly to heresy.
nikolai_42
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Yes. In Creation, the Word brought light into being. In the Advent, the Word was actually made flesh.
Cross Reference
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I fully agree with that, Nick. The Word was made flesh and Jesus, the man, the body "prepared for the Word" went on His 'mission' for the approval of God that in the end of being proven worthy the summing up of the Godhead in Jesus is to be finalized. Everything of the Godhead will be summed up in Jesus, the man "approved of God":
"For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool." Mark 12:36 (KJV)
"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know" Acts 2:22 (KJV)
Cross Reference
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Cross Reference
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You might want to consider that upon the new birth is the "Word made flesh" deposited in that one but in measure. . . a relationship to be "worked out in fear and trembling".
Cross Reference
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Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
In that day of God's choosing will Jesus become the complete Godhead in glorified Human form. God said that, not me.
Written after all the facts were in.
Paul said this about believers:
Written to all born again believers after ALL the facts were in.
At what time of His life are you referring to?
In that day of God's choosing will Jesus become the complete Godhead in glorified Human form. God said that, not me.
Written after all the facts were in.
Paul said this about believers:
Written to all born again believers after ALL the facts were in.
But it does make one "born again" per John 1:12 KJV.
At what time of His life are you referring to?
genuineoriginal
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In Genesis 1-2, God's spoken Word became light, but God formed man from the dust of the earth.
In John 1, God's spoken Word became flesh in the form of the Son of God.
The spoken Word that became flesh is recorded here:
Psalm 2:7 7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. |
genuineoriginal
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At what time in eternity do you consider Jesus became God?
Do you consider "God" to be the name of a type of being, where multiple beings of the same type are "gods"?
Or do you consider that "God" is a singular being who is the only representative of the "God" type in all eternity?
Cross Reference
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_________________________________________________________
I am open for adjustment in my attempt at explaining this, what I believe I see. An attempt is all it can be. Please feel free:
Your question is ambiguous at best especially when all else fails if our understanding Jesus as being, "Uncaused LOVE" in Flesh and Blood is not considered. cf John 1:1 KJV. His eternal conception making His origin just that, eternal. Jesus Christ was, "I AM LOVE" Who entered Adam's race from the outside in the "fullness of time".
Love was before all things. Though motivations for believing may differ, LOVE is singular and remains so. So when we say Jesus is God both in His flesh and in His Spirit, I believe we cover all the bases when pondering the record of Him for our lives as our example IF we sort things out in that light, i.e., LOVE is a Person. LOVE is God. "When" can now be understood to be a nonsequitor if we see LOVE from the beginning and later in Flesh and Blood and not being altered/affected by the circumstances in which "He" found "Himself" when the proving of Jesus whose testimony of God FROM Himself was made manifest sans the Presence of God. There was no compromise in Jesus. Jesus' "proven victory" sans God won Him the Glory of His Father which secured Him to the foreknowledge of Him "when", in the beginning of all things He was the "Word of God", the "Word of Himself"; the LOVE which came down to a dying world.
The "Son of Man" is coming again in "clouds of Glory". Mark 13:26 KJV. In that day Jesus will not be "Son of God" but, God in Glorified Human Flesh as purposed by Him from Himself FROM the beginning! This will be the fulfilling of "His Pleasure" for having created Adam. In the most fullness of time will Jesus answer to the Name, "Everlasting Father throughout eternity"
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nikolai_42
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It was never said of Jesus Christ that He was God's epistle - His letter to men. But that is what Paul says of those who are His.
Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2 Cor 3:1-6
It is certain that those who are His have His Spirit. And that is reiterated more fully here :
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Colossians 1:27
Christ in you certainly speaks of the Holy Spirit and of the Son. But one is the testimony of the other in the sense that Jesus Christ is at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us (Romans 8:34 and Hebrews 7:25). But that does not negate Him being in us. Just as He prayed to the Father :
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
John 17:21-23
And as close a relationship as Jesus here delineates (the Father in the Son and the Son in the Father and the disciples all being one in both of them) there is still - as in the Godhead - not an indication that one IS the other. We may bear the Word of God, we may bear the Spirit of God, but it is never said that we ARE that word made flesh. You say that of us, you necessarly collapse the Godhead into Unitarianism (or some variant thereof) and the distinctions in John 17 (and elsewhere) lose their clarity.
nikolai_42
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If that is true, then God's spoken word IS God. God's Word IS God. We should, then, worship the scriptures, right?
Cross Reference
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Cross Reference
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What's your problem? Why the sarcastic ending line?