You can *try*.
I wish to go back to a not so distance past before people decided to get sue happy or have people criminally prosecuted for hurting their tender little feelings.
WA State Judge Explains Ruling Against Christian Florist
- Thread starter Jose Fly
- Start date
You can *try*.
I wish to go back to a not so distance past before people decided to get sue happy or have people criminally prosecuted for hurting their tender little feelings.
Jose Fly
New member
What would stop me? And if my business was denied, isn't that an infringement on my rights?
How would you do that?
PureX
Well-known member
Well, first you'll have to stop being deliberately stupid.
Without equality under the law, the wealthy and powerful will be free to abuse and oppress those who are not as wealthy and powerful. Which is why equality under the law was an essential principal in the founding of our nation. Sadly, though, we did not live up to that principle from the beginning, and we allowed men of color, and women, to be considered less than equal to a white man. And the result was the very abuse and oppression this the nation was founded to try and stop.
Finally, after many years of suffering, abuse, and strife, we have altered most of our laws so that women and men of color are treated as equals to white men, but we still have a ways to go in eliminating our prejudices from law, so that ALL HUMAN BEINGS are treated as equal in the eyes of the law. And until we do so, we will still have people of wealth and power abusing and oppressing people of lesser wealth and power.
It is ESSENTIAL that we uphold and maintain the principal of equality under the law so that all citizens can be equally free, equally safe, and held equally responsible for respecting the freedoms of everyone else. Without this basic ideal, abuse and oppression will inevitably result, as it has always done throughout all of human history. And maintaining this principal is FAR, FAR, FAR, more important than some prejudiced Christian's desire to abuse and insult gay people by refusing to serve them as they would serve everyone else just because they want to get married.
Of course you aren't, because you want to ignore the disastrous consequences of allowing some citizens to abuse and oppress the rights of other citizens in the name of religious prejudice. You don't want to see the terrible harm and suffering that allowing such abuse leads to. You want to pretend this is just about flowers. But it's not about the flowers, or the cakes, and the photos. It's about people abusing and insulting the rights of other people and expecting the law to allow them to do it because they're "Christians".
Oh. This is a serious question. You wish to compare opening up adult businesses in the area of children to a bakery.
By giving you and those like you your own state.
Oh. Great comeback. Thanks! :thumb: I always appreciate the insults of those who hide behind the banner of the politically correct.
Jose Fly
New member
The concept is the same. You're claiming there's a right to open and run a business any way I see fit. So is that universal? Any business can open anywhere and conduct its business in any way it wants?
Well, we don't need that because the one we're living in now is trending in my direction.
But granting your scenario, what would be different about the judicial system in your state after the rest of us are kicked out? Would you have a judicial system? If so, how would it differ from what we have today?
PureX
Well-known member
Well, I think it was deliberately stupid of you to try and claim this issue is just about flowers. Don't you?
Lon
Well-known member
One day someone is going to ask a Christian baker to write "there is no God" on a cake and the horrible Government is going to 'try' and make him/her do it. Without the mark of the beast, Christians will no longer be able to buy or sell.
shagster01
New member
Nobody is arguing city zoning laws here, are they?
Lon
Well-known member
Er, the mark isn't a stamp on your wrist or a chip in your forehead, I'm pretty sure. A mark is a blight, like when I have to print "there is no God" on a cake to 'avoid bigotry/inequity.' "The good (used loosely) of the few, or the one, outweighs the good of the many."
Christian Liberty
Well-known member
PureX, you are a repulsive blasphemer and I'm disgusted at the fact that you call yourself a Christian. And for all the fascistic moralists who want to criminalize every sin on the sun, people like PureX are more disgusting than homosexuals or even abortionists who do not claim the name of Jesus Christ, the savior of the world.
You worship the State and its laws, and you think it is completely acceptable to arbitrarily violate the rights of Christians solely on the basis of secularist law. You have no understanding of rights or of morality. You are a traitor to the faith you claim to hold and you are repulsive. I am righteously repulsed by you, as should be every Christian. You should be excommunicated from whatever denomination you are in...
Well, I would, but then, I've always been pretty radical
Christian Liberty
Well-known member
I think you're right. I'm not so sure its a literal mark or a "one-time" eshatological event, but a pattern that repeats itself throughout history. Refuse to participate in the godless world system, and you won't be able to sell goods. Explicitly, knowingly participate in theologically treasonous ways, as will sometimes be required by law, and you show yourself to not be one of God's.
PureX
Well-known member
It's completely absurd to imagine that God will reject you because you sold flowers to a homosexual. Comments like this show how wildly irrational people become when trying to justify their own hateful thoughts and behavior.
Ardima
New member
Which is the sin?
Not selling flowers for a gay wedding because of your "religious beliefs" and closing all possible future opportunities to share the Love of God through the Gospel; or, selling flowers despite your "religious beliefs" which may allow future opportunities to share the Love of God through the Gospel?
Unbelieving sinners will continue to sin whether or not you sell them flowers for their wedding. But i guess it is more righteous to possibly destroy the opportunity for any Christian to share the gospel to them.
Jesus not only ate with publicans and sinners, he lovingly fed them and healed them... more than once. Where would any believer be if Jesus would have withheld His services simply because it went against His religious beliefs. (i.e. was on the Sabbath)
Those validating the practice of the florist sound like the pharisees.
Not selling flowers for a gay wedding because of your "religious beliefs" and closing all possible future opportunities to share the Love of God through the Gospel; or, selling flowers despite your "religious beliefs" which may allow future opportunities to share the Love of God through the Gospel?
Unbelieving sinners will continue to sin whether or not you sell them flowers for their wedding. But i guess it is more righteous to possibly destroy the opportunity for any Christian to share the gospel to them.
Jesus not only ate with publicans and sinners, he lovingly fed them and healed them... more than once. Where would any believer be if Jesus would have withheld His services simply because it went against His religious beliefs. (i.e. was on the Sabbath)
Those validating the practice of the florist sound like the pharisees.
Well, Lon, as someone who believes that there is no God, and also someone completely committed to civil rights legislation, if you are ever forced to do so, I will be among the first to protest on your behalf. I also don't think it's gonna happen.
Civil rights aren't a mechanism for compelled speech.
Jose Fly
New member
Aren't zoning laws a restriction of a business owner's freedom to conduct his business when and where he sees fit?
shagster01
New member
I'm not a huge fan of most zoning laws, however I am more tolerant of them being that they are usually done on a city level rather than a federal level. They tend to be a closer reflection of what the community wants rather than what politicians in Washington want.
For example, my city does not allow marijuana dispensaries but the town next to mine does. So, while I wish our city would for the tax dollars, I only have to drive an extra mile or so for access. No big deal.
See, I should teach this gay couple how to drive an extra mile to get to a place that wants my business. I get what I want with no lawsuits needed. Amazing!