Unless You Believe That I Am "HE" (GOD) You Will Die In Your Sins, John 8:24

[OCTOBER23]

Dagg the JEWISH GUY said,

Once again you have taken something out of its context and added your own imagination into your interpretation to suit what you prefer to believe. The "I am he" statement is explained within the context and it is not a reference to "equality with the Father" status, (and if it was then even Paul would be a liar because Yeshua would be exalting himself to equality with the Father). John 8:12 is the beginning of this passage spoken to the Pharisees and Yeshua references the commencement of the discourse later in the same passage,
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Once again he has forgotten his Major Scriptures that every Christian should know.

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God,

thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

 

[steko]

Over and over again...in lots of different ways. I like these.

2 Timothy 1:10
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

1 Timothy 2:3
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Titus 3:6
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;​

The word "firstborn" here is used as Preeminent or MOST HIGH.

Colossians 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:​

I don't know who you are Mister, but I'm glad to see that someone has sound logic and......can read.

 

[glorydaz]

WAIT A MINUTE. Jesus didn't say "unless you believe that I am God".... No, if you actually READ the scripture, you won't get the gist of what he's saying.

Nowhere in the passages you are referring to does Jesus say he is God! He said, "If you do not believe that I am the one, you will die in your sins." (John 8:24) "I am the one." What "one"? The one sent from God from the realms above. (See verse 23.) Not "God." He then said, "The One who sent me is true, and the very things I heard from him I am speaking in the world....After you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me, I speak these things." (John 8:26b, 28)

Not only did Jesus NOT say that he was God, but he tore up any notion that he was even on a par with God! He said he could do NOTHING of his own initiative but only what the Father taught him to say!

Does that sound like he was claiming to be God???


:think:

It says, I am (he). The Jews knew exactly what He was saying...which is why they fell backwards when He made such statements.

They knew what He was saying with every single I AM....I AM the way, I AM the life, I AM the truth, I AM the bread of life, I AM the true vine, I AM good shepherd ....since you're not a Jew, you may not know what Jesus was saying. Actually, it's clear you don't have a clue.

It wasn't that He could do nothing by His own initiative, it's that He was God and could only do what God does. duh

 

[glorydaz]

I don't know who you are Mister, but I'm glad to see that someone has sound logic and......can read.

:e4e: (Do you like my hat?)

 

[patrick jane]

No, John 8:58 does not say what you are saying. What Jesus was saying was: "Before Abraham even existed, I have been." He would not have mixed together a PAST participle with a PRESENT verb. That's even against rules of grammar. And Exodus 3:14 does not absolutely say "I Am." Depending on the translator, it has been rendered "I will become what I choose to become," or "I will be what I will be," so....do you still say that Jesus was quoting Exodus 3:14?

"Before Abraham was, I will be what I choose to become"??? That makes just as much sense as what you are trying to pawn off on people. It is silly! Jesus never said "I am I Am." He could have said it just like that, but he didn't. He NEVER claimed to be God!


:kookoo:

John 10:30 KJV -

 

[steko]

:e4e: (Do you like my hat?)

I love your hat!


:e4e:

 

[steko]

John 10:30 KJV -

Yeah, and:

Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Those Jews understood exactly what Christ was claiming.
It's amazing that some of the folks in this forum aren't nearly as astute as those stiff-necked Jews.

 

[Krsto]

Context Robert Pate, context. The chapter starts out by Jesus saying he is the Light of the World. Jesus was talking to people who actually heard his good words and saw his good deeds. They rejected him as evil. It was to them he said they must believe that he is (the light of the world). He never said, "Believe I am God." That's not in the context of the narrative. People who see his works and hear his words and reject him are the ones that will die in their sins, because they are the same ones who refuse to repent of their wicked ways. Once again, this proves "justification by not being evil."

 

[patrick jane]

Yeah, and:

Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Those Jews understood exactly what Christ was claiming.
It's amazing that some of the folks in this forum aren't nearly as astute as those stiff-necked Jews.

Yep, they wanted to stone Jesus right on the spot when He said that.

Jeremiah 17:23 KJV - Acts 7:51 KJV -

 

[6days]

Yeah, and:

Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Those Jews understood exactly what Christ was claiming.
It's amazing that some of the folks in this forum aren't nearly as astute as those stiff-necked Jews.

Totally agree......... BUT.....
I'm curious about something. I'm not sure if I totally agree with the OP, and interested in your thoughts.
Don't you think a person can be saved without a good theological understanding of who Christ is? I would think a person can trust in Christ as their Savior without understanding He is also creator God.
I understand both sides of the argument, but I'm sure that people must have come to Christ, being convicted of sin...yet perhaps not understanding our triune God??

 

[steko]

Totally agree......... BUT.....
I'm curious about something. I'm not sure if I totally agree with the OP, and interested in your thoughts.
Don't you think a person can be saved without a good theological understanding of who Christ is? I would think a person can trust in Christ as their Savior without understanding He is also creator God.
I understand both sides of the argument, but I'm sure that people must have come to Christ, being convicted of sin...yet perhaps not understanding our triune God??

I agree with you.
I came to Christ straight out of a smorgasbord of eastern mysticism and I didn't come to an understanding that Christ was creator and in essence....GOD for some time after I was saved. I remember distinctly the moment and place when I came to that realization.
But...I also believe that if one is truly saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit, that they will soon come humbly to the realization that Christ is full Deity through revelation of the Word by the Spirit.

 

[daqq]

Dagg the JEWISH GUY said,

Once again you have taken something out of its context and added your own imagination into your interpretation to suit what you prefer to believe. The "I am he" statement is explained within the context and it is not a reference to "equality with the Father" status, (and if it was then even Paul would be a liar because Yeshua would be exalting himself to equality with the Father). John 8:12 is the beginning of this passage spoken to the Pharisees and Yeshua references the commencement of the discourse later in the same passage,
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Once again he has forgotten his Major Scriptures that every Christian should know.

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God,

thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Well at least you understood the passage I was referencing. However Paul actually says that Yeshua emptied himself and thought not to ROB-STEAL-SEIZE UPON the glory and honor which belongs only to the Father. This means exactly what I stated, that is, that if indeed Yeshua claims to be God or equal with the Father anywhere in the Gospel accounts, (as most here claim) then Paul is made to be a liar because he does not agree with the theology being presented herein, (nor with most of modern mainstream Christianity).

Philippians 2:5-10a The Scriptures ISR
5 or, let this mind be in you which was also in Messiah יהושע,
6 who, being in the form of Elohim, did not regard equality with Elohim a matter to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, and came to be in the likeness of men.
8 And having been found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, death even of a stake.
9 Elohim, therefore, has highly exalted Him and given Him the Name which is above every name,
10a that at the Name of יהושע every knee should bow,
http://biblehub.com/isr/philippians/2.htm

This also tells you which name of the Father was given to him in John 17:11, and it is not YHWH, (the Father) but Yeshua, (Salvation) from the same passage therein stated also, (John 17:3). In addition how is it that Yeshua needed to empty himself if he was already "God in the flesh" as many here claim? And when was it that he emptied himself? Did he empty himself in the womb? And if he did not empty himself then why does he himself quote Isaiah 61:1-2a in the statement from the Luke 4:18-21 passage and proclaim it as having been fulfilled AFTER his immersion at the Jordan river where the Holy Spirit and Spirit of Elohim descended upon him out of heaven like a dove?

Isaiah 61:1-2a
1 The Spirit of the Master [Adonai] YHWH is upon me; because YHWH has anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound:
2a To proclaim the acceptable year of YHWH,

The man Yeshua emptied himself and the Father poured out His Holy Spirit upon him without measure, (John 3:34). Yeshua was thus, according to his own words, ANOINTED with the Holy Spirit given him from the Father above, for even according to the testimony of Yochanan, a man can receive nothing unless it be given him from heaven, (John 3:27-29).

 

[jamie]

Over and over again...in lots of different ways. I like these.

These are all good verses but what I was looking for from KingdomRose was this one.

But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom." (Hebrews 1:8 NKJV)​

However, the Rose didn't answer.

 

[glorydaz]

These are all good verses but what I was looking for from KingdomRose was this one.

But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom." (Hebrews 1:8 NKJV)​

However, the Rose didn't answer.

Oh, sorry about that. I do get confused at times with all these threads.

 

[beloved57]

Vs.

Romans 4:5 KJV But to him that worketh not,but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Contrasts, between what Clavinist/Calvinist bedeviled666's father the devil tells him to keep repeating, and what the bible asserts.

Believing is the opposite of working-"but."

Watch him deny it, and just spam, "Believing is something that a person does, so it is a work ...Calvinism/Clavinism is the gospel................."


Watch.

Being "zapped," in order to be "able to believe," is a work.


So there.

bedeviled666: I am zapped, regenerated, thus having no need to believe......Wait..."justifieth the ungodly"means regenerated, already saved, you see, well, uh, urr.....Believing is something that a person does, so it is a work ...Calvinism/Clavinism is the gospel.................


Cricket....cricket.....

Nothing about believing not being a work! A work is something that a person does, so it is a work!

 

[keypurr]

It is very important to know who Jesus is. If you believe that he was just a good man you will probably not be saved. Jesus claimed to be divine. He said to the Jews, "You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you do not believe that I am he, you shall die in your sins" John 8:23, 24.

Once again this scripture proves that we are justified by faith. Faith in a man is not going to save you. We must believe that Jesus was God in the flesh if we are going to be saved. Only God can defeat sin, death and the devil and reconcile the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:19. I also believe that you must believe that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 4:14. To not believe that Jesus is the savior of the whole world is to not believe that Jesus is God.

Many will be lost because they do not believe that Jesus was able to abolish sin, death and the devil and in doing so reconcile the world unto God. They just simply do not have faith in him. When you add anything to the Gospel such as works or whatever, you have dimnished the saving work of Christ and have made Jesus less than what he is.

I don't think you understand what you read.

If God was in Jesus how can he be God?

The Son of Man came down from heaven, not God. The Son of Man is a spirit.

 

[keypurr]

Dagg the JEWISH GUY said,

Once again you have taken something out of its context and added your own imagination into your interpretation to suit what you prefer to believe. The "I am he" statement is explained within the context and it is not a reference to "equality with the Father" status, (and if it was then even Paul would be a liar because Yeshua would be exalting himself to equality with the Father). John 8:12 is the beginning of this passage spoken to the Pharisees and Yeshua references the commencement of the discourse later in the same passage,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once again he has forgotten his Major Scriptures that every Christian should know.

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God,

thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Being in a form of God does not make him God.

He also said he Father is greated than ALL.

 

[keypurr]

These are all good verses but what I was looking for from KingdomRose was this one.

But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom." (Hebrews 1:8 NKJV)​

However, the Rose didn't answer.

You overlooked the part about "God, your God"

 

[Bright Raven]

Being in a form of God does not make him God.

He also said he Father is greated than ALL.

He also said this;

John 17:4-5 American Standard Version (ASV)

4 I glorified thee on the earth, having accomplished the work which thou hast given me to do.

5 And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[jamie]

You overlooked the part about "God, your God"

Nope, that's verse 9 and there is nothing that prohibits God from having a higher God. In fact, in Luke 1 Jesus is referred to as the Son of the Highest. Like Father, like Son.

The Highest is also referred to as the Most High.