United States vs. United Nations

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
States and nations were synonyms in the 1700s. The United States might as well have been called the United Nations. The United States works (strong federalist constitution with anti-federalist bill of rights baked into it), and the United Nations doesn't, and never will, for the same reason the US didn't work under a similar loose confederation (Articles of Confederation, 1776-1789).

The US should annex countries as new states. State number 51? France? Israel? Canada? Russia?

They'd get two senate seats, and congressmen proportional to their population, and the number of congressmen plus two, electoral votes in presidential elections.

Maybe North Korea should be the 51st state. The United States is going to absorb all the other countries in time. The whole world will be America.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
States and nations were synonyms in the 1700s. The United States might as well have been called the United Nations. The United States works (strong federalist constitution with anti-federalist bill of rights baked into it), and the United Nations doesn't, and never will, for the same reason the US didn't work under a similar loose confederation (Articles of Confederation, 1776-1789).

The US should annex countries as new states. State number 51? France? Israel? Canada? Russia?

They'd get two senate seats, and congressmen proportional to their population, and the number of congressmen plus two, electoral votes in presidential elections.

Maybe North Korea should be the 51st state. The United States is going to absorb all the other countries in time. The whole world will be America.
:chuckle: :thumb:
 

gcthomas

New member
States and nations were synonyms in the 1700s. The United States might as well have been called the United Nations. The United States works (strong federalist constitution with anti-federalist bill of rights baked into it), and the United Nations doesn't, and never will, for the same reason the US didn't work under a similar loose confederation (Articles of Confederation, 1776-1789).

The US should annex countries as new states. State number 51? France? Israel? Canada? Russia?

They'd get two senate seats, and congressmen proportional to their population, and the number of congressmen plus two, electoral votes in presidential elections.

Maybe North Korea should be the 51st state. The United States is going to absorb all the other countries in time. The whole world will be America.

So, um. How would this annexing work? Would you ask first? How would you get 100% agreement from the 50 states to do this, given your famously federal structure?
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
So, um. How would this annexing work? Would you ask first? How would you get 100% agreement from the 50 states to do this, given your famously federal structure?
It starts, by letting countries know that we're open for business.
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
:chuckle: :thumb:
I'm just interpreting history, Patrick. All loose confederations have failed, as the US did under the Articles of Confederation, as the Confederacy did, and as the EU, NATO, and UN are doing now. Loose confederations never work. The Constitution of the United States(/Nations) is the civil answer to all mankind's civil problems.
 

gcthomas

New member
It starts, by letting countries know that we're open for business.
I don't think you'll have any takers to join.

The Constitution of the United States(/Nations) is the civil answer to all mankind's civil problems.
It is the constitution that is rigidly tying the 21st century US to 18th century political opinion, and giving little flexibility to deal with modern issues and mores. I think there are better ways to handle constitutional issues than the US constitution.
 
Can you show, from the standpoint of God, where He ordained one world government by a man or a body of men? Rather, have all empires even been characterized as beasts in scripture, not even dignified as having human qualities, rather the qualities of carnivorous animals? What was the lesson of Nimrod, of the tower of Babel? Didn't God, in fact, do the opposite, breakup that one world structure with corrupt man at the head? In the Bible, what is the only one world structure that is referred to, prior to the Lord Jesus ruling? Is that not the whole world under the thumb of the antichrist, finally global government, and, what do you know, a world also gone to hell in the proverbial hand basket?

Can you site one instance of any nation with designs on empire in all of recorded history that was not murderous and warmongering, achieving its ends by violence, by sin? It seems what you're proposing is like saying you wish rain were orange juice. Nice idea, to somebody who loves oranges, but don't hold your breath it's going to happen, or should happen, in the first place. For example, what are you going to do about the orange juice haters, who, in their land, don't want your juice falling from the sky? Or your bombs? Get the picture?

First, America is never going to rule the world. Second, you couldn't achieve this pipe dream, absent squashing all dissent. And who goes around saying everybody needs to be like me, myself and I? Unless you're Holy God, with an absolute lock on all things right in creation that sinful man, as a whole, has always refused to consider and abide by, that's a pathological, proud and evil mentality. Hence, you have human history, bestial carnage, plunder, genocide and oppression, by those who felt they had the right to dictate. You're just proposing a new Babylon, when there's, in fact, nothing new under the sun.

You might find Habakkuk 2 an interesting treatise on empire. Such so-called patriotism can, indeed, be the last vestige of scoundrels.

Habakkuk 2

1 I will stand my watch And set myself on the rampart, And watch to see what He will say to me, And what I will answer when I am corrected.
2 Then the LORD answered me and said: Write the vision And make it plain on tablets, That he may run who reads it.
3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time; But at the end it will speak, and it will not lie. Though it tarries, wait for it; Because it will surely come, It will not tarry.
4 Behold the proud, His soul is not upright in him; But the just shall live by his faith.
5 Indeed, because he transgresses by wine, He is a proud man, And he does not stay at home. Because he enlarges his desire as hell, And he is like death, and cannot be satisfied, He gathers to himself all nations And heaps up for himself all peoples.
6 Will not all these take up a proverb against him, And a taunting riddle against him, and say, ' Woe to him who increases What is not his --- how long? And to him who loads himself with many pledges'?
7 Will not your creditors rise up suddenly? Will they not awaken who oppress you? And you will become their booty.
8 Because you have plundered many nations, All the remnant of the people shall plunder you, Because of men's blood And the violence of the land and the city, And of all who dwell in it.
9 Woe to him who covets evil gain for his house, That he may set his nest on high, That he may be delivered from the power of disaster!
10 You give shameful counsel to your house, Cutting off many peoples, And sin against your soul.
11 For the stone will cry out from the wall, And the beam from the timbers will answer it.
12 Woe to him who builds a town with bloodshed, Who establishes a city by iniquity!
13 Behold, is it not of the LORD of hosts That the peoples labor to feed the fire, And nations weary themselves in vain?
14 For the earth will be filled With the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, As the waters cover the sea.
15 Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor, Pressing him to your bottle, Even to make him drunk, That you may look on his nakedness!
16 You are filled with shame instead of glory. You also --- drink! And be exposed as uncircumcised! The cup of the LORD's right hand will be turned against you, And utter shame will be on your glory.
17 For the violence done to Lebanon will cover you, And the plunder of beasts which made them afraid, Because of men's blood And the violence of the land and the city, And of all who dwell in it.
18 What profit is the image, that its maker should carve it, The molded image, a teacher of lies, That the maker of its mold should trust in it, To make mute idols?
19 Woe to him who says to wood, 'Awake!' To silent stone, 'Arise! It shall teach!' Behold, it is overlaid with gold and silver, Yet in it there is no breath at all.
20 But the LORD is in His holy temple. Let all the earth keep silence before Him.


You've got a lot of the old "Manifest Destiny" going on there. How well did that work for Native American souls, that neither shared or wanted your destiny? Was that a righteous episode in American history? You think? You think that same Constitution like scripture, that once relegated the black man to be a fraction of a man and was penned by these great men of freedom of mankind, who, themselves, owned slaves?

Just lots of luck with anything that has men of empire at the helm. Myself, I don't even believe in luck. Sorry, but is one supposed to read such claptrap and wave a flag, made of plastic and imported from Communist China? Maybe made by prisoners, before they're shot and have their organs harvested for some rich "patriot" on Wall Street that, by all means, thinks it needs be he rules the world?
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
I don't think you'll have any takers to join.
There have been 37 takers so far. It's a (for us today) new idea. It will take some time to process.
It is the constitution that is rigidly tying the 21st century US to 18th century political opinion, and giving little flexibility to deal with modern issues and mores. I think there are better ways to handle constitutional issues than the US constitution.
Vs. Europe's record over the past 100 years wrt starting World Wars. :rolleyes:

:chuckle:
 

gcthomas

New member
Vs. Europe's record over the past 100 years wrt starting World Wars. :rolleyes:

:chuckle:

That's a different issue. I like the idea of nations joining together and building new larger nations. But that really doesn't mean that the US Constitution would be a good thing for any of these groupings. Not even the US.
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
Can you show, from the standpoint of God, where He ordained one world government by a man or a body of men?
America is not the Church or a religious body at all.
Rather, have all empires even been characterized as beasts in scripture, not even dignified as having human qualities, rather the qualities of carnivorous animals?
The empires that persecuted the people of God? Of course. America is not those empires.
What was the lesson of Nimrod, of the tower of Babel? Didn't God, in fact, do the opposite, breakup that one world structure with corrupt man at the head?
BC (before Christ).
In the Bible, what is the only one world structure that is referred to, prior to the Lord Jesus ruling? Is that not the whole world under the thumb of the antichrist, finally global government, and, what do you know, a world also gone to hell in the proverbial hand basket?
There is no opportunity for "the antichrist" in America.
Can you site one instance of any nation with designs on empire in all of recorded history that was not murderous and warmongering, achieving its ends by violence, by sin?
Not one of them is America.
It seems what you're proposing is like saying you wish rain were orange juice. Nice idea, to somebody who loves oranges, but don't hold your breath it's going to happen, or should happen, in the first place.
I'm not holding my breath. I'm floating a notion.
For example, what are you going to do about the orange juice haters, who, in their land, don't want your juice falling from the sky? Or your bombs? Get the picture?
Of course many people today hate the idea of America. This will not be done in a day. It will take time, if for nothing else, the people who hate America to die off.
First, America is never going to rule the world.
The whole idea of America is "We the People" ruling.
Second, you couldn't achieve this pipe dream, absent squashing all dissent.
Time. Supra.
And who goes around saying everybody needs to be like me, myself and I?
The idea of America is against the idea that "everybody needs to be like me."
Unless you're Holy God, with an absolute lock on all things right in creation that sinful man, as a whole, has always refused to consider and abide by, that's a pathological, proud and evil mentality.
America is the best idea going.
Hence, you have human history, bestial carnage, plunder, genocide and oppression, by those who felt they had the right to dictate.
America is not about dictating. Supra.
You're just proposing a new Babylon, when there's, in fact, nothing new under the sun.
America is not Babylon. Apples and oranges.
You might find Habakkuk 2 an interesting treatise on empire.
There's never been an empire like what I'm proposing.
Such so-called patriotism can, indeed, be the last vestige of scoundrels.
Nothing stops any of the United States from being patriotic about their own home state/nation. Witness America today.
Habakkuk 2
Spoiler

1 I will stand my watch And set myself on the rampart, And watch to see what He will say to me, And what I will answer when I am corrected.
2 Then the LORD answered me and said: Write the vision And make it plain on tablets, That he may run who reads it.
3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time; But at the end it will speak, and it will not lie. Though it tarries, wait for it; Because it will surely come, It will not tarry.
4 Behold the proud, His soul is not upright in him; But the just shall live by his faith.
5 Indeed, because he transgresses by wine, He is a proud man, And he does not stay at home. Because he enlarges his desire as hell, And he is like death, and cannot be satisfied, He gathers to himself all nations And heaps up for himself all peoples.
6 Will not all these take up a proverb against him, And a taunting riddle against him, and say, ' Woe to him who increases What is not his --- how long? And to him who loads himself with many pledges'?
7 Will not your creditors rise up suddenly? Will they not awaken who oppress you? And you will become their booty.
8 Because you have plundered many nations, All the remnant of the people shall plunder you, Because of men's blood And the violence of the land and the city, And of all who dwell in it.
9 Woe to him who covets evil gain for his house, That he may set his nest on high, That he may be delivered from the power of disaster!
10 You give shameful counsel to your house, Cutting off many peoples, And sin against your soul.
11 For the stone will cry out from the wall, And the beam from the timbers will answer it.
12 Woe to him who builds a town with bloodshed, Who establishes a city by iniquity!
13 Behold, is it not of the LORD of hosts That the peoples labor to feed the fire, And nations weary themselves in vain?
14 For the earth will be filled With the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, As the waters cover the sea.
15 Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor, Pressing him to your bottle, Even to make him drunk, That you may look on his nakedness!
16 You are filled with shame instead of glory. You also --- drink! And be exposed as uncircumcised! The cup of the LORD's right hand will be turned against you, And utter shame will be on your glory.
17 For the violence done to Lebanon will cover you, And the plunder of beasts which made them afraid, Because of men's blood And the violence of the land and the city, And of all who dwell in it.
18 What profit is the image, that its maker should carve it, The molded image, a teacher of lies, That the maker of its mold should trust in it, To make mute idols?
19 Woe to him who says to wood, 'Awake!' To silent stone, 'Arise! It shall teach!' Behold, it is overlaid with gold and silver, Yet in it there is no breath at all.
20 But the LORD is in His holy temple. Let all the earth keep silence before Him.
Spoiler


You've got a lot of the old "Manifest Destiny" going on there.
The idea I'm floating is not Manifest Destiny either.
How well did that work for Native American souls, that neither shared or wanted your destiny?
Again, that's not the idea.
Was that a righteous episode in American history? You think?
'Never said so; no.
You think that same Constitution like scripture, that once relegated the black man to be a fraction of a man and was penned by these great men of freedom of mankind, who, themselves, owned slaves?
The Constitution provided the procedure to manage that great social change, along with many, many other matters since then. The Constitution's stood the test of time.
Just lots of luck with anything that has men of empire at the helm.
America's managed to survive and thrive for over 200 years so far under the same Constitution.
Myself, I don't even believe in luck. Sorry, but is one supposed to read such claptrap and wave a flag, made of plastic and imported from Communist China? Maybe made by prisoners, before they're shot and have their organs harvested for some rich "patriot" on Wall Street that, by all means, thinks it needs be he rules the world?
:confused:

:e4e:
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
That's a different issue.
It's not the whole issue, but it's a very large and very important issue. The American Civil War was primarily about slavery of course, but underneath that was the matter of just how strong a federalism the Constitution describes. There's no exit door, you can't secede; unlike all of our other contractual relationships like business partnerships, marriages, etc.
I like the idea of nations joining together and building new larger nations. But that really doesn't mean that the US Constitution would be a good thing for any of these groupings. Not even the US.
I think it's worth a shot, and I do think that this will happen, just not in the next century, but maybe the process can start in the next century. The United States Constitution is a proven winner IMO.
 

gcthomas

New member
It's not the whole issue, but it's a very large and very important issue. The American Civil War was primarily about slavery of course, but underneath that was the matter of just how strong a federalism the Constitution describes. There's no exit door, you can't secede; unlike all of our other contractual relationships like business partnerships, marriages, etc.
I think it's worth a shot, and I do think that this will happen, just not in the next century, but maybe the process can start in the next century. The United States Constitution is a proven winner IMO.

Secession is not merely a legal idea. The secession of the American colonies from Great Britain in 1775 was certainly illegal under the law of the time, yet it happened. Texas seceded illegally from Mexico in 1836. It seems that the sheer existence of the US affirms the possibility of secession outside the Constitution.

I imagine that if secession became especially popular in any state then a unilateral declaration would have a reasonable chance of being eventually ratified by the US to avoid war and economic damage.
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
Secession is not merely a legal idea. The secession of the American colonies from Great Britain in 1775 was certainly illegal under the law of the time, yet it happened.
The Confederacy seceded also, and as with the United States declaring independence from Great Britain, war was waged to remedy it also. Great Britain just failed. Of course they could have poured more resources into their effort, but they chose not to.
Texas seceded illegally from Mexico in 1836.
I don't know much about this.
It seems that the sheer existence of the US affirms the possibility of secession outside the Constitution.
I don't know how you reason this? The one time it occurred, it was squelched. While it was more than a legal challenge to the strong federalism of the Constitution, it was at least that, and their answer was a definitive, "Oh no you don't."
I imagine that if secession became especially popular in any state then a unilateral declaration would have a reasonable chance of being eventually ratified by the US to avoid war and economic damage.
The US Civil War is evidence against your conclusion.
 

gcthomas

New member
The US Civil War is evidence against your conclusion.

Do you think that the US citizenry would sign up to another civil war to stop California, or Hawaii, for example, seceding? No, I don't either.

And I saw a survey a few months ago that showed that about 2/3 of the population of the US is broadly in favour of the possibility of secession from the US. Congress wouldn't have the support of the population to start another war against fellow Americans.
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
Do you think that the US citizenry would sign up to another civil war to stop California, or Hawaii, for example, seceding? No, I don't either.
Neither of those would pose any problem since they have no military. The Confederacy had a military. Plus, both of those examples have some of the most anti-gun legislation in the Union, so their people are not as well armed as other state/nations could be, if needed.
And I saw a survey a few months ago that showed that about 2/3 of the population of the US is broadly in favour of the possibility of secession from the US.
It would take a super majority like that for a change to the Constitution, so that is significant.
Congress wouldn't have the support of the population to start another war against fellow Americans.
That's one of the reasons America is such a great idea. We need broad popular support for major changes, such as amending the Constitution.
 

gcthomas

New member
Neither of those would pose any problem since they have no military. The Confederacy had a military.

Are you saying there is no military in California? That's silly.

Plus, both of those examples have some of the most anti-gun legislation in the Union, so their people are not as well armed as other state/nations could be, if needed.

Armed citizens would be no match for a modern military, so that is somewhat irrelevent.

It would take a super majority like that for a change to the Constitution, so that is significant.
That's one of the reasons America is such a great idea. We need broad popular support for major changes, such as amending the Constitution.

So there IS a mechanism for secession? That's not quite what you said earlier.

It doesn't really matter what the Constitution says — it can always be overturned if the population turn against it, as has happened throughout history. And The US constitution has a lot of problems that means it will never be adopted by another liberal democratic state. No-one will make the same mistakes as your founders did. They get to make their own mistakes. ;)
 
Nihilo, I apologize for what may appear to be putting words in your mouth? Sorry. No! That’s not the intent, even details not specified we could surely well agree on, no way to know. This is also a reason the post was not a reply, rather meant more to be another view thrown out there, though I would never apologize that both scripture and all human history protest the folly of the empire mentality, believe the opposite, as it stands, there's not enough respect for fence lines in the human community, never has been, and rather the need for different people to live together, bullying and expansionism evils.

Myself, I don’t find fantasies of use, but this is not to say disdain wishful and noble thinking. You’re entirely right the U.S. Constitution, in terms of government of man, is the best we’ve got, but 200 years is not really a long time, and there has been much that has gone on that is not exemplary, under that same Constitution. The Constitution ensuring certain freedoms dooms giving the abuse of those freedoms license, but you’re right that you’d probably ask what better way? Who’s going to determine the limits on protected speech by the Constitution, by what right and authority, for instance, that wouldn’t use that power to squash opposition, for personal, political ends? Decide what the established religion is, that wouldn’t force some so-called Christian cult or the New Age, anymore, down everybody’s throat? We’re left with living with pornography and the occult, Satanism, whatever, the alternative worse. But because that Constitution does not address or actually ensure a civilized society, safe for children, much more than any other form of government, that Constitution only works to a certain limit that, for instance, a truly righteous monarchy would excel beyond, achieving peace and a more civilized society. Of course, this would be at the cost of evildoers, and this, from the likes of man, would be me wishful thinking, like there’s going to be a substitute for God to rule in the affairs of men, that there’s such perfect men who would achieve such power, like your Constitutional world would survive intact. Then there’s the matter of the evildoers insisting their freedoms aren’t trampled on, but as if any of it really stays in Vegas.

Because the world is full of evildoers, nobody other than the Lord can do what’s required, since, even in America, it doesn’t matter what you want to believe, the people by large majority want their evils of the world, many, many where freedom is license to live an evil life, my point that, given this situation, when those same people rise to power that are corrupt in small ways, expect the beast to emerge. It has been said by many, I don’t know myself, not a Russia scholar, but that the Russian Constitution, during the Bolshevik era, was more democratic than the U.S. Constitution. Even what is on paper in law is only as good, in practical terms, as how it is abided by, obviously. That 200 years has not been 200 years of justice, sweetness and light, under the U.S. Constitution, either, men doing as they pleased for the likes of money and corrupting power, now more than ever the best government money can buy.

It seems to me you’re not factoring in just what man and the world of the Bible is, by nature, a creature which, push comes to shove, rejects law for selfish ends, all the time. Don’t kid yourself. Constitution or no Constitution, if a strong man gained a foothold even in America, he could muster up his SS and Hitler Youth, also, right here in these glorious 50 states of the Constitution. Just look at the web, how may fine, upstanding Americans blame everything on the Jews and want to get rid of the Jews, despite history, the devil alive and kicking in their black, freedom loving, Satanic little hearts. In the universe of evil ways, whatever that evil, such people are the majority. Your God fearing, Spirit filled Christian is a smaller minority than many realize, I fear, this not to say world government by Bible, as the faith is not about that, clear this won't ever happen, until the return of the Lord to rule, but to point out the limited extent of those who would agree to a universal morality to be governed this way, and the people governing are going to come from the population at large. You don’t have any shining city on a hill, if what’s shining is a neon sign that says, THE CHICKEN RANCH. Libertas could perhaps be more appropriate in New York harbor, clad in a miniskirt, with some panty showing and a cocktail in her hand?

There’s wishful thinking, then there’s reality. All I’m saying is what you’re proposing won’t work, has never worked, for these reasons, empire of any kind, by man, the flesh and devil that has dominated human history a proven dangerous course. Put it this way: it’s one of those things history proves you’d better watch what you wish for. But, again, I don’t disdain your nice ideas, even if you probably ate too much Mexican food before bedtime for them to dawn on you. (Just joking, and never mind, maybe the devil made me do it...)

Another example, while I also believe, under normal circumstances, there’s no opportunity for antichrists in America, though they already pretty much run everything, under constraint. But all it takes is martial law with the military chops behind it to make the Constitution go away, though would have to agree, with the backlash against that, the nation would go caput in civil war. But, like how all empires crash and burn, this would be a case of the Constitution crashing and burning, if some antichrist had a pretext of disaster or whatever to start making new rules and enforcing them, with the military power available to government. You aren’t going to successfully vanquish a trained army with a deer rifle or pistol, or even a bunch of AK rifles. All you’re going to be able to do is harass them, until they send SWAT guys, an armored vehicle or a shell your way. Also, can you imagine the number of people who thought “can’t happen” in Germany? You think they’d have attended a Hitler speech, if they had a clue? You think German law prescribed a Hitler? What happened to German law, despite German law, that supposedly protected everybody, including Jews? How do you say, “It couldn’t happen!”, in German?

Lastly, an old saying, regarding empires and egos, “The higher they rise, the harder they fall.” But I’d not argue with your intentions, which seem honorable, just have strongly differing ideas, just want you to know you seem like a nice enough and intelligent guy. No disrespect meant. I sometimes say things more strident than I should that aren’t meant personally, or I’d have replied to you, specifically. I also like nice thoughts, though only find those useful that are practical. I wish there were no mosquitoes, but darned it that will help anybody to not get bitten by one.
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
Are you saying there is no military in California? That's silly.



Armed citizens would be no match for a modern military, so that is somewhat irrelevent.



So there IS a mechanism for secession? That's not quite what you said earlier.

It doesn't really matter what the Constitution says — it can always be overturned if the population turn against it, as has happened throughout history. And The US constitution has a lot of problems that means it will never be adopted by another liberal democratic state. No-one will make the same mistakes as your founders did. They get to make their own mistakes. ;)
There are 50 autonomous countries and nations in the Union whose supreme law, is the Constitution of the United States of America.

That's about 20% of all the world's sovereign states.

The first thing, is letting people know that we're open for business. I'm sure we'll hammer out many of the details from there.
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
Nihilo, I apologize for what may appear to be putting words in your mouth? Sorry. No! That’s not the intent, even details not specified we could surely well agree on, no way to know. This is also a reason the post was not a reply, rather meant more to be another view thrown out there, though I would never apologize that both scripture and all human history protest the folly of the empire mentality, believe the opposite, as it stands, there's not enough respect for fence lines in the human community, never has been, and rather the need for different people to live together, bullying and expansionism evils.
The United States is a Union of 50 autonomous countries/nations/states (about 20% of all the world's nations today). You might call it an empire, even if all ~250 countries today were to join our Union, but I would contend that the United States Constitution and the strong federal government that it specifies, along with its baked-in anti-federalist Bill of Rights, is unlike anything the world has ever seen, as a way for people to live peaceably with each other, and I would hesitate to call it anything other than its own neologism: America. If you'd like to qualify it in any way, you could add The. The America. Since there's only one, unlike empires, of which there've been many.
Myself, I don’t find fantasies of use, but this is not to say disdain wishful and noble thinking. You’re entirely right the U.S. Constitution, in terms of government of man, is the best we’ve got, but 200 years is not really a long time, and there has been much that has gone on that is not exemplary, under that same Constitution. The Constitution ensuring certain freedoms dooms giving the abuse of those freedoms license, but you’re right that you’d probably ask what better way? Who’s going to determine the limits on protected speech by the Constitution, by what right and authority, for instance, that wouldn’t use that power to squash opposition, for personal, political ends? Decide what the established religion is, that wouldn’t force some so-called Christian cult or the New Age, anymore, down everybody’s throat? We’re left with living with pornography and the occult, Satanism, whatever, the alternative worse. But because that Constitution does not address or actually ensure a civilized society, safe for children, much more than any other form of government, that Constitution only works to a certain limit that, for instance, a truly righteous monarchy would excel beyond, achieving peace and a more civilized society. Of course, this would be at the cost of evildoers, and this, from the likes of man, would be me wishful thinking, like there’s going to be a substitute for God to rule in the affairs of men, that there’s such perfect men who would achieve such power, like your Constitutional world would survive intact. Then there’s the matter of the evildoers insisting their freedoms aren’t trampled on, but as if any of it really stays in Vegas.
The Constitution itself lays out which organ interprets laws, including itself, the Supreme Court. And as for monarchy, that's been tried, and it's failed in every case, largely because successful succession is impossible to ensure, with the lone exception being the house of Windsor, which does not wield the power that I think you mean by "monarchy."
Because the world is full of evildoers, nobody other than the Lord can do what’s required, since, even in America, it doesn’t matter what you want to believe, the people by large majority want their evils of the world, many, many where freedom is license to live an evil life, my point that, given this situation, when those same people rise to power that are corrupt in small ways, expect the beast to emerge. It has been said by many, I don’t know myself, not a Russia scholar, but that the Russian Constitution, during the Bolshevik era, was more democratic than the U.S. Constitution. Even what is on paper in law is only as good, in practical terms, as how it is abided by, obviously. That 200 years has not been 200 years of justice, sweetness and light, under the U.S. Constitution, either, men doing as they pleased for the likes of money and corrupting power, now more than ever the best government money can buy.
I have little argument with any of this. Firstly, democratic is not the ideal, that was found faulty all the way back in ancient Athens when the Athenians democratically decided to give Socrates the death penalty. Republic is better, but republics have failed also. The proof of the pudding of the Constitution for me, is how it empowers 50 autonomous countries to act as one, with great leverage, quickness, efficiency and effectiveness, all the while recognizing, affirming, and protecting human rights and civil rights, chief among them religious liberty, freedom of speech, and the right to keep and bear arms.
It seems to me you’re not factoring in just what man and the world of the Bible is, by nature, a creature which, push comes to shove, rejects law for selfish ends, all the time. Don’t kid yourself. Constitution or no Constitution, if a strong man gained a foothold even in America, he could muster up his SS and Hitler Youth, also, right here in these glorious 50 states of the Constitution. Just look at the web, how may fine, upstanding Americans blame everything on the Jews and want to get rid of the Jews, despite history, the devil alive and kicking in their black, freedom loving, Satanic little hearts. In the universe of evil ways, whatever that evil, such people are the majority. Your God fearing, Spirit filled Christian is a smaller minority than many realize, I fear, this not to say world government by Bible, as the faith is not about that, clear this won't ever happen, until the return of the Lord to rule, but to point out the limited extent of those who would agree to a universal morality to be governed this way, and the people governing are going to come from the population at large. You don’t have any shining city on a hill, if what’s shining is a neon sign that says, THE CHICKEN RANCH. Libertas could perhaps be more appropriate in New York harbor, clad in a miniskirt, with some panty showing and a cocktail in her hand?
Well as I've said, I think America, with it's strong federalism with strong anti-federalism baked into it, is the most brilliant idea that mankind has ever developed, and on the largest of scales. I don't think that Hitler would have been able to do what he did in Germany here.
There’s wishful thinking, then there’s reality. All I’m saying is what you’re proposing won’t work, has never worked, for these reasons, empire of any kind, by man, the flesh and devil that has dominated human history a proven dangerous course. Put it this way: it’s one of those things history proves you’d better watch what you wish for. But, again, I don’t disdain your nice ideas, even if you probably ate too much Mexican food before bedtime for them to dawn on you. (Just joking, and never mind, maybe the devil made me do it...)

Another example, while I also believe, under normal circumstances, there’s no opportunity for antichrists in America, though they already pretty much run everything, under constraint. But all it takes is martial law with the military chops behind it to make the Constitution go away, though would have to agree, with the backlash against that, the nation would go caput in civil war. But, like how all empires crash and burn, this would be a case of the Constitution crashing and burning, if some antichrist had a pretext of disaster or whatever to start making new rules and enforcing them, with the military power available to government. You aren’t going to successfully vanquish a trained army with a deer rifle or pistol, or even a bunch of AK rifles. All you’re going to be able to do is harass them, until they send SWAT guys, an armored vehicle or a shell your way. Also, can you imagine the number of people who thought “can’t happen” in Germany? You think they’d have attended a Hitler speech, if they had a clue? You think German law prescribed a Hitler? What happened to German law, despite German law, that supposedly protected everybody, including Jews? How do you say, “It couldn’t happen!”, in German?

Lastly, an old saying, regarding empires and egos, “The higher they rise, the harder they fall.” But I’d not argue with your intentions, which seem honorable, just have strongly differing ideas, just want you to know you seem like a nice enough and intelligent guy. No disrespect meant. I sometimes say things more strident than I should that aren’t meant personally, or I’d have replied to you, specifically. I also like nice thoughts, though only find those useful that are practical. I wish there were no mosquitoes, but darned it that will help anybody to not get bitten by one.
I wasn't offended. :)
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
The United Nations is a loose confederation of many countries, and the United States are a strong federal Union of many (50) countries.

Instead of the UN, the US should open for business, offering to annex more countries to the Union. Eventually the UN would dissolve, and the US would replace the UN entirely.
 
Top