God's Truth;4478556]Jesus said they are seeking him NOT because they saw signs, but because they ATE THEIR FILL OF THE LOAVES.
Of course what they
desired was a free buffet but what they wanted to
KNOW was
how to do the “
works” of God...like Jesus had done (the miracle of the loaves)and Moses before Him (the manna). Now what
kind of “works” were these? They were talking about how to perform
miraculous works and,yes, ones that would meet their
carnal needs.
Jesus turned their attention to a more important "work" the important work that needed to be done INSIDE them.
He said,
"
This is the work of God,
that you believe(have faith) in Him whom He has sent."
You are reacting so much to the view that faith is an
involuntary work of God that you are not acknowledging the role the Spirit plays in getting us to believe. His role is convicting us of sin, bearing witness in us of the truth of the gospel and bearing witness to the person and message of Christ.
The Holy Spirit does not make us believe supernaturally.
I do not believe that the Spirit MAKES people believe.
That scripture is about when God HARDENED the Jews who did NOT have FAITH BEFORE JESUS CAME.
MANY people were coming to Jesus. Individual people were hardened but not the nation as a whole. That had not happened yet.
But where exactly does the Bible say “God HARDENED the Jews who did NOT have FAITH BEFORE JESUS CAME.”
Jesus was reaching out to and saving a lot of hardened sinners who had not had faith before He came. Secularized Jews like Matthew and Zachieus who were thieves and cheats could not be said to have faith before Jesus came; neither could many other non-practicing Jews. Among orthodox Jews some like Nicodemus believed while others did not. Every time Jesus called on a group of people to “believe” (i.e.,have faith”)
in Him He was assuming that many or even most of those he was reaching out to
did not yet believe in Him.
The Spirit convicts the world of sin does not mean the Holy Spirit supernaturally makes us have faith.
Again I do not believe the Holy Spirit MAKES anyone have faith. However inasmuch as He has a hand in
leading us to faith you cannot say that the process is purely natural.
Be more careful what you say the scripture is saying. The scripture does not say that at all.
Okay I will make my point with these scriptures:
16 But I say, walk by the
Spirit, and
you will not carry out the desire of the flesh (
Galatians 5:16)
This does not say “if we try very hard NOT to fulfill the lusts of the flesh then we will walk in the Spirit.” Walking by the Spirit is the means whereby we are enabled not to sin.
In order that the
righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not according to the flesh but
according to the Spirit. (
Romans 8:4)
We can only exhibit God’s righteous character by
walking by the Spirit. We do not have the power to do it apart from dependence on Him.
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if
by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. (
Romans 8:13)
Gaining victory over the flesh requires our putting it to death voluntarily but we can only accomplish this
through the Spirit.
Since I speak of the power of the scriptures, why then do you think you have proven me wrong?
Because you seem to be saying the scriptures can save without the Spirit just like you seem to say that we are able to obey perfectly without the assistance of the Holy Spirit.
You repeat what false teachers say. You just contradicted yourself. Read what you wrote right here, and then what you just wrote before about the written word.
Paul is NOT saying that his letters are devoid of the Spirit and KILLS.
Paul is speaking about the old law that said to put people to death for their sins.
To Paul the "scriptures" were not his own letters but the Old Testament writings. In the hands of men who were without the Holy Spirit those words did not give life. When Jesus read them they had power. It is the Holy Spirit that makes the word living.
What? That is not true. They put people to death because they were false teachers without understanding.
You think correct doctrine will prevents a person from falling into error or sin? I assure you does not. I have seen many fall, ministers included. You are extremely naive if you think it does not happen.
That scripture is about OUR NOT HAVING TO CLEAN OURSELVES, just to be able to go to the temple, where God’s Spirit was, and worship Him.
Faith in Jesus’ blood now cleans us.
This verse has nothing to do with the Temple which was not an important issue in this Church which consisted of Gentiles and a much smaller number of Hellenistic Jews (who did not put much stock in the temple anyway). What it does say is that “
faith is the gift of God” You will have to come to terms with what that phrase means.
You sound too worldly, trying to give me some man’s name to say I follow.
So when someone says a word you do not know it means they are worldly? I was just giving you a few words that would help you understand the views of others around here, including me. If you would rather figure them out through conflicts, misunderstandings, statements and restatements then go ahead. The shorter way to learning is reading.
Anyone can come to God, if they can seek Him, they are to seek Him, and they will find Him.
I agree