Trying to understand the liberal mind.

[Jefferson]

Is this quote from Rousas Rushdoony accurate?

"The more a civilization advances, the deeper will its sense of sin become, because the increase of prosperity and cultural advantages will only increase the masochistic desire to pay for progress, which the individuals unconsciously believe requires atonement before enjoyment. As a result, the very liberating forces of civilization themselves call into existence the forces of enslavement. The citizens of the civilization progressively demand political enslavement as their masochistic price for advancement. As a result, the most ruthless totalitarian enslavement is invited, and the culture uses its material liberation to forge a new slavery." (Politics of Guilt and Pity, p. 12.)

 

[Gary K]

I went and found the book online and read a part of it as I'd never heard of this guy before. I don't believe the basis of Rushdoony's ideas are Biblical and here is why.

He bases his entire thesis in the book not on what the Bible teaches us but on modern psychology. That is based in atheism and so leaves both God and the devil completely out of the picture. Thus any ideas built upon that foundation cannot be real as it leads us completely away from truth for Jesus is truth.

Any spiritual ideas that omit God and are built out of atheistic foundations cannot be the truth.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Is this quote from Rousas Rushdoony accurate?

"The more a civilization advances, the deeper will its sense of sin become, because the increase of prosperity and cultural advantages will only increase the masochistic desire to pay for progress, which the individuals unconsciously believe requires atonement before enjoyment. As a result, the very liberating forces of civilization themselves call into existence the forces of enslavement. The citizens of the civilization progressively demand political enslavement as their masochistic price for advancement. As a result, the most ruthless totalitarian enslavement is invited, and the culture uses its material liberation to forge a new slavery." (Politics of Guilt and Pity, p. 12.)

To be honest Jefferson, it sounds like a whole load of self impressed, pseudo intellectual waffle. If you think those on the left of the political spectrum 'invite ruthless totalitarian enslavement' as this person prattles about then - um, nope. Speaking personally as one who is moderate to centre left overall, any form of totalitarianism or tyranny as a form of government is a complete no-no, whatever form it takes.

 

[Red Wave Rising]

Is this quote from Rousas Rushdoony accurate?

"The more a civilization advances, the deeper will its sense of sin become, because the increase of prosperity and cultural advantages will only increase the masochistic desire to pay for progress, which the individuals unconsciously believe requires atonement before enjoyment. As a result, the very liberating forces of civilization themselves call into existence the forces of enslavement. The citizens of the civilization progressively demand political enslavement as their masochistic price for advancement. As a result, the most ruthless totalitarian enslavement is invited, and the culture uses its material liberation to forge a new slavery." (Politics of Guilt and Pity, p. 12.)

First of all, the Democrats are now pushing outright Marxism, and one wonders what sort of mind is attracted to socialism and Marxism. One type would simply be a stupid uninformed person. The other is someone who has decided to embrace evil in their life, and has discarded all traditional Judeo-Christian morals.

To be honest Jefferson, it sounds like a whole load of self impressed, pseudo intellectual waffle

I give you a fine example

 

[Jefferson]

I went and found the book online and read a part of it as I'd never heard of this guy before.

He's actually quite famous. See his Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._J._Rushdoony

I don't believe the basis of Rushdoony's ideas are Biblical and here is why.

He bases his entire thesis in the book not on what the Bible teaches us but on modern psychology.

All of Rushdoony's books are filled with scripture. In fact, the section I quoted from (Section 1, chapter 2 - Scapegoats) contains 15 scripture references in that chapter's 11 pages. I'm not sure which book you were reading.

 

[Jefferson]

Any spiritual ideas that omit God and are built out of atheistic foundations cannot be the truth.

He was the father of Christian Reconstructionism and extended the Christian presuppositionalism of Calvinist philosopher Cornelius Van Til

 

[Derf]

He's actually quite famous. See his Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._J._Rushdoony



All of Rushdoony's books are filled with scripture. In fact, the section I quoted from (Section 1, chapter 2 - Scapegoats) contains 15 scripture references in that chapter's 11 pages. I'm not sure which book you were reading.

I’ve known a few people that like his teachings. I haven’t read much, but the part I have was trying to understand how the Old Testament laws would work today, at least the civil ones, like having a parapet on your roof to keep friends from falling off, and sharing your increase (tithe or wave or other offerings) with the church leaders.

 

[Right Divider]

I’ve known a few people that like his teachings. I haven’t read much, but the part I have was trying to understand how the Old Testament laws would work today, at least the civil ones, like having a parapet on your roof to keep friends from falling off, and sharing your increase (tithe or wave or other offerings) with the church leaders.

Those things simply do not apply today.
Just like water baptism.
They don't apply to the body of Christ.

 

[Derf]

Those things simply do not apply today.
Just like water baptism.
They don't apply to the body of Christ.

They do in a Love your neighbor sense. Like the parapet example. We would apply that today as a deck railing.

 

[Right Divider]

They do in a Love your neighbor sense. Like the parapet example. We would apply that today as a deck railing.

I bolded the things that I was talking about.
I also have now underlined to make it more clear.

 

[Derf]

I bolded the things that I was talking about.
I also have now underlined to make it more clear.

Oh, I see. Sorry I missed that.
The way I understand walking in the Spirit is that we joyfully do the things that we used to need a law to force us to do when we walked in the flesh. So while we don’t do the wave offerings as the law stipulated, we still thank God for what He gives, and we share it with others, especially in the church and especially those that have some authority in the church. Perhaps we don’t need to give them part of our mint and cumin (or wheat or barley or meat or drink) because we live in an affluent society where we can afford to pay our pastors. But other societies today don’t have that affluence.

 

[Right Divider]

Oh, I see. Sorry I missed that.
The way I understand walking in the Spirit is that we joyfully do the things that we used to need a law to force us to do when we walked in the flesh. So while we don’t do the wave offerings as the law stipulated, we still thank God for what He gives, and we share it with others, especially in the church and especially those that have some authority in the church. Perhaps we don’t need to give them part of our mint and cumin (or wheat or barley or meat or drink) because we live in an affluent society where we can afford to pay our pastors. But other societies today don’t have that affluence.

2 Corinthians 9:7 KJV
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

 

[Gary K]

He's actually quite famous. See his Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._J._Rushdoony



All of Rushdoony's books are filled with scripture. In fact, the section I quoted from (Section 1, chapter 2 - Scapegoats) contains 15 scripture references in that chapter's 11 pages. I'm not sure which book you were reading.

I was reading the book you quoted. It's publicly available through Scribd from chalcedon.edu. He has a curious blend psychology and a little Bible.

It's been my experience that just because someone quotes scripture doesn't mean they actually make scriptural arguments, especially when it is blended with other concepts. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

So far I haven't seen a single reference to the influence and deceptiveness of the devil in mankind's love of evil, yet he is at the very heart of sin. If not for him we wouldn't be where we are in our history and Christ would not have had to die on the cross. How he can be left out of any discussion of sin and its consequences is beyond me. It makes any discussion of sin that excludes him greatly lacking in truth.

 

[Jefferson]

I was reading the book you quoted. It's publicly available through Scribd from chalcedon.edu. He has a curious blend psychology and a little Bible.

It's been my experience that just because someone quotes scripture doesn't mean they actually make scriptural arguments, especially when it is blended with other concepts. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

So far I haven't seen a single reference to the influence and deceptiveness of the devil in mankind's love of evil, yet he is at the very heart of sin. If not for him we wouldn't be where we are in our history and Christ would not have had to die on the cross. How he can be left out of any discussion of sin and its consequences is beyond me. It makes any discussion of sin that excludes him greatly lacking in truth.

James 1:14 says, "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed."

That verse shows we don't need any help from the devil to sin.

 

[Gary K]

James 1:14 says, "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed."

That verse shows we don't need any help from the devil to sin.

So that's all there is to sin? People just somehow have lust from some unknown source? Plus they are enticed from some unknown source. The word translated as enticed means, according to Strong's, beguiled. To be beguiled means the following:

The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 (gcide)
Beguile Be*guile", v. t. [imp. & p. p. Beguiled; p. pr. &
vb. n. Beguiling.]
1. To delude by guile, artifice, or craft; to deceive or
impose on, as by a false statement; to lure.
[1913 Webster]

The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. --Gen. iii.

It's what happened in the Garden of Eden and has been happening ever since. To deny that the devil isn't an active participant in luring people into sin is to deny his very nature and role in sin.

 

[marke]

Is this quote from Rousas Rushdoony accurate?

"The more a civilization advances, the deeper will its sense of sin become, because the increase of prosperity and cultural advantages will only increase the masochistic desire to pay for progress, which the individuals unconsciously believe requires atonement before enjoyment. As a result, the very liberating forces of civilization themselves call into existence the forces of enslavement. The citizens of the civilization progressively demand political enslavement as their masochistic price for advancement. As a result, the most ruthless totalitarian enslavement is invited, and the culture uses its material liberation to forge a new slavery." (Politics of Guilt and Pity, p. 12.)

I remember decades ago when Christians in our church were discussing Rushdoony and were favorably impressed by his writings.

 

[marke]

To be honest Jefferson, it sounds like a whole load of self impressed, pseudo intellectual waffle. If you think those on the left of the political spectrum 'invite ruthless totalitarian enslavement' as this person prattles about then - um, nope. Speaking personally as one who is moderate to centre left overall, any form of totalitarianism or tyranny as a form of government is a complete no-no, whatever form it takes.

Humans who seek government control of the processes of life and living must give up personal freedoms and liberties to achieve that government oversight and control. Most Bible-believing Christians are already free and secure in Christ and do not want unsaved bureaucrats controlling them, their thoughts, their lives, their morals, or their activities.

 

[Red Wave Rising]

To deny that the devil isn't an active participant in luring people into sin is to deny his very nature and role in sin.

The Devil made me do it? Nonsense.

To understand the issue one must understand that as a result of original sin, our desires are out of order: They ae Disordered. Our desires are no longer ordered to the good. Therefore, we desire things that are bad.

When we ae baptized and become members of the Family of God (Christians), with the help of God's grace we work to overcome those desires, to shed the old man and "grow" in Christ, as a new born grows and learns.

Sin for the Christian is ultimately giving in to the old man desires. Its not the Devil dangling cheese in front of us!

 

[Right Divider]

James 1:14 says, "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed."

That verse shows we don't need any help from the devil to sin.

Perhaps both are true... There is a reason that Christ calls some peoples father the devil.

John 8:44 (AKJV/PCE)
(8:44) Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Derf]

2 Corinthians 9:7 KJV
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Yes, that’s the standard rejoinder. But it doesn’t apply if you read the context. And if that’s the only one, which is about giving for distressed saints in other churches, does that mean we don’t pay our pastors?

Of course not, and apparently you don’t have to be cheerful about it, though it would behoove us to be.