Trump: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

[1Mind1Spirit]

You have to register when lobbying on behalf of a foreign government. They failed to do so.

You have to pay taxes on money received from said foreign governments. They failed to do so.

They purposely falsified tax documents. They defrauded banks to secure loans.
Did you bother to read the indictment?

Can you prove they actually did any lobbying?

 

[rexlunae]

In my state recordings are only admissible in court if the party being recorded is aware of it.

I'd bet there's an exception in your state for criminal investigations by some means. And that's not the rule in every state, and I believe the rule in DC is that only one party has to consent to the recording.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001

Unconstitutional laws are null and void.

 

[rexlunae]

Can you prove they actually did any lobbying?

Mueller has proven it in front of a grand jury, to the probable cause standard. Hence the indictment.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I'd bet there's an exception in your state for criminal investigations by some means. And that's not the rule in every state, and I believe the rule in DC is that only one party has to consent to the recording.

Nope, only dumb defense lawyers and biased judges would stand for such nonsense.

 

[rexlunae]

Unconstitutional laws are null and void.

What makes you think that's unconstitutional?

 

[WizardofOz]

Can you prove they actually did any lobbying?

I imagine that's what the prosecutors will be doing.

In short, the indictment alleges that under the direction of pro-Russia forces in the Ukrainian government, Manafort and Gates enlisted two powerful American firms to work on behalf of the shady European Centre for a Modern Ukraine, which both men knew was a front for that country's government, in an effort to soften Washington's stance towards Ukraine. Counts ten and eleven in the indictment charge Manafort and Gates with knowingly and willfully acting as foreign agents without filing FARA disclosures and with making "false and misleading" statements in a FARA document. Both men also face charges ranging from money laundering to conspiracy against the U.S. Link

Read the indictment I linked to

 

[rexlunae]

Nope, only dumb defense lawyers and biased judges would stand for such nonsense.

So, you're telling me that you think there's a Constitutional Right to lie to the FBI?

You must be joking.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Mueller has proven it in front of a grand jury, to the probable cause standard. Hence the indictment.

An indictment is probable cause for a trial not proof of wrong doing.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

So, you're telling me that you think there's a Constitutional Right to lie to the FBI?

You must be joking.

What's that about right to privacy?

 

[WizardofOz]

What Are the Consequences of Lying to the FBI?

The authoritative ones are picking and choosing which authorities people should recognize.

 

[WizardofOz]

What's that about right to privacy?

Then remain silent/plead the fifth amendment.

You cannot knowingly make false statements. :duh:

Did you honestly not know that?

 

[WizardofOz]

An indictment is probable cause for a trial not proof of wrong doing.

That's exactly what [MENTION=7390]rexlunae[/MENTION] just said:

Mueller has proven it in front of a grand jury, to the probable cause standard. Hence the indictment.

'Proven' to the probably cause standard

 

[rexlunae]

An indictment is probable cause for a trial not proof of wrong doing.

A trial...for a crime. No crime, no probable cause.

 

[rexlunae]

What's that about right to privacy?

Can you quote the Constitutional language related to privacy? The Fourth Amendment protects against unreasonable searches and seizures. It doesn't spell out what is and isn't reasonable, and I don't think you can make a real easy case that you should be protected from things that you deliberately tell another person.

 

[drbrumley]

Viktor Yanukovych is Ukranian. Beyond that I don't understand your question.

I'm just trying to figure what is so gleeful about here....

Are you upset that the Russians "allegedly" meddled on our election; not wanting that liar Hillary to deal with? That they rather have dealt with Trump?

As you know, I am no supporter of Trump....He is as much of the swamp as Hillary is.

This issue is far greater then "let's find some dirt on Trump."

These laws are here for a purpose.....to protect themselves, not us.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I imagine that's what the prosecutors will be doing.

In short, the indictment alleges that under the direction of pro-Russia forces in the Ukrainian government, Manafort and Gates enlisted two powerful American firms to work on behalf of the shady European Centre for a Modern Ukraine, which both men knew was a front for that country's government, in an effort to soften Washington's stance towards Ukraine. Counts ten and eleven in the indictment charge Manafort and Gates with knowingly and willfully acting as foreign agents without filing FARA disclosures and with making "false and misleading" statements in a FARA document. Both men also face charges ranging from money laundering to conspiracy against the U.S. Link

Read the indictment I linked to

One thing I see wrong with that indictment is that the Ukraine govt was being attacked by Russia.

Therefore in order to be working for them, they sure wouldn't have been lobbying for pro Russians.

 

[WizardofOz]

I'm just trying to figure what is so gleeful about here....

I don't uderstand why people are lining up to defend Manafort and Gates. I am not gleeful but if these guys broke the law, then they are being rightfully prosecuted.

Are you upset that the Russians "allegedly" meddled on our election; not wanting that liar Hillary to deal with? That they rather have dealt with Trump?

I don't think this necessarily has anything to do with Hillary or Trump. I am not upset or emotional about any of it.

As you know, I am no supporter of Trump....He is as much of the swamp as Hillary is.

Agreed. And apparently he employed some of the dredges of the very swamp he claimed he would 'drain'.

This issue is far greater then "let's find some dirt on Trump."

These laws are here for a purpose.....to protect themselves, not us.

Not sure about that in this case.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Can you quote the Constitutional language related to privacy? The Fourth Amendment protects against unreasonable searches and seizures. It doesn't spell out what is and isn't reasonable, and I don't think you can make a real easy case that you should be protected from things that you deliberately tell another person.

One persons word against another.

You get to confront them in court.

Unconstitutional intersection cameras only lasted long enough to be found just that.

 

[WizardofOz]

One thing I see wrong with that indictment is that the Ukraine govt was being attacked by Russia.

Therefore in order to be working for them, they sure wouldn't have been lobbying for pro Russians.

Viktor Yanukovych

...a Ukrainian politician who was elected as the fourth President of Ukraine on February 7, 2010. He served as President from February 2010 until his removal from power in February 2014 as a result of the 2014 Ukrainian revolution. He is currently in exile in Russia and wanted by Ukraine for high treason. ...Yanukovych rejected a pending EU association agreement, choosing instead to pursue a Russian loan bailout and closer ties with Russia. ...Viktor Yanukovych had been granted Russian citizenship by a "secret decree" of Vladimir Putin. ...in foreign affairs, Yanukovych's cabinet was considered to be politically close to Russia, although declaring support for Ukrainian membership in the European Union ...In 2005 the Party of Regions signed a collaboration agreement with the Russian political party United Russia etc etc