Trump sez: Transgenders B gone!

[musterion]

I believe the following should be capital crimes and if they were punished harshly, swiftly and publicly would no longer be the social disasters they are today, and in fact would be incredibly rare, due to the deterrent effect:

adultery
divorce
pornography
abortion
homosexuality
child molestation
rape


i'm dead serious

I think I would agree with that IF the Old Testament Law was not cited as the basis for it. If a nation decided to capitalize each of those offenses simply for the sake of social cohesion, I'd have no problem with it because the wicked would increasingly be done away with (a proper duty Paul says falls to government) and that society would be better off for it.

But as I said to JR, I want no part of anyone forcing anyone else under the Law of Moses, no matter what else they call it.

Of course this whole sub-discussion is moot; the West is so thoroughly degraded and corrupted that nothing even close to your proposal will EVER happen.

 

[musterion]

:doh:

you too?

you don't recognize a distinction between civil law and salvific law? :nono:

Under Moses they were one and the same.

 

[JudgeRightly]

JR, there's no two ways to cut this. If you're going to promote the idea that our civil and criminal law should mirror the Mosaic law, you're seeking to put yourself (and everyone else) under the Law. That's what it amounts to.

Anyone who seeks to be under the Law is under a curse.

I have been advocating that our laws mirror GOD'S laws. The fact that it would be similar to the Mosaic law is because God's law its perfect and doesn't change.

Paul said this:

Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk,desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully,knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust. - 1 Timothy 1:5-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy1:5-11&version=NKJV

The law is a curse if you're trying to keep it to be saved.

But the law is good if used lawfully, for keeping the wicked in check and to slow the decay of society.

I think I would agree with that IF the Old Testament Law was not cited as the basis for it. If a nation decided to capitalize each of those offenses simply for the sake of social cohesion, I'd have no problem with it because the wicked would increasingly be done away with (a proper duty Paul says falls to government) and that society would be better off for it.

That is what we're doing here.

Doser made a list above of what the law is intended to do.

But as I said to JR, I want no part of anyone forcing anyone else under the Law of Moses, no matter what else they call it.

I don't want people under the law of Moses either.

I want them under civil laws that reflect God's law.

Of course this whole sub-discussion is moot; the West is so thoroughly degraded and corrupted that nothing even close to your proposal will EVER happen.

Just because righteousness isn't likely to abound in the near future doesn't mean we don't advocate for it.

Here is the criminal code proposed by Bob Enyart and kgov.

Please tell me if it would be a curse, or if it would be used lawfully.View attachment 26669

 

[ok doser]

Of course this whole sub-discussion is moot; the West is so thoroughly degraded and corrupted that nothing even close to your proposal will EVER happen.

you make the mistake of thinking that our current period of stability is historically the norm

it isn't

 

[Jonahdog]

Just because righteousness isn't likely to abound in the near future doesn't mean we don't advocate for it.

Here is the criminal code proposed by Bob Enyart and kgov.

Please tell me if it would be a curse, or if it would be used lawfully.View attachment 26669

I'll bet you just want to be the one doing the flogging under Pastor Bob's laws, hunh?

 

[ok doser]

I'll bet you just want to be the one doing the flogging under Pastor Bob's laws, hunh?

wow - what a creepy thing to say

the whole point of the discussion is that with just law, swiftly, harshly and publicly enforced, the incidence of transgressions needing punishment would decline precipitously

 

[ok doser]

Under Moses they were one and the same.

gotta get outside, and JR can answer this better than me, but...

I'm not proposing to implement Mosaic law

I'm proposing that Mosaic law should be the basis upon which to change existing law to represent a more effective and just system of law and to create a more stable, moral society

 

[Jonahdog]

wow - what a creepy thing to say

the whole point of the discussion is that with just law, swiftly, harshly and publicly enforced, the incidence of transgressions needing punishment would decline precipitously

Pastor Bob is the one who suggests flogging.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Pastor Bob is the one who suggests flogging.

No. Bob is quoting the Bible, and God. Maybe if you actually read the scripture verses provided in the PDF I provided, you wouldn't make such blatant false accusations.

“If there is a dispute between men, and they come to court, that the judges may judge them, and they justify the righteous and condemn the wicked,then it shall be, if the wicked man deserves to be beaten, that the judge will cause him to lie down and be beaten in his presence, according to his guilt, with a certain number of blows.Forty blows he may give him and no more, lest he should exceed this and beat him with many blows above these, and your brother be humiliated in your sight. - Deuteronomy 25:1-3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy25:1-3&version=NKJV

 

[ok doser]

I'll bet you just want to be the one doing the flogging under Pastor Bob's laws, hunh?

Pastor Bob is the one who suggests flogging.

No. Bob is quoting the Bible, and God. Maybe if you actually read the scripture verses provided in the PDF I provided, you wouldn't make such blatant false accusations.

“If there is a dispute between men, and they come to court, that the judges may judge them, and they justify the righteous and condemn the wicked,then it shall be, if the wicked man deserves to be beaten, that the judge will cause him to lie down and be beaten in his presence, according to his guilt, with a certain number of blows.Forty blows he may give him and no more, lest he should exceed this and beat him with many blows above these, and your brother be humiliated in your sight. - Deuteronomy 25:1-3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy25:1-3&version=NKJV

seems to work pretty well in Singapore :idunno:

 

[Crucifer]

The Law is omitted- Jesus nullified it to his chosen and basically warned that it would remain by the Father as a result of this world's nonetheless decline.

You don't have any business contributing to this world's punishments- Christ was crucified, what makes you think he supports crucifixion_

 

[JudgeRightly]

The Law is omitted

You apparently haven't read your Bible recently.

Jesus says:

[JESUS]For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.[/JESUS] - Matthew 5:18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew5:18&version=NKJV

Not all has been fulfilled, heaven and earth (last I checked, have not passed away.

Jesus nullified it to his chosen and basically warned that it would remain by the Father as a result of this world's nonetheless decline.

Paul says (you don't reject Paul, do you?) that the law is good if one uses it lawfully.

By "chosen," do you mean the Nation of Israel, the Elect Lady?

You don't have any business contributing to this world's punishments-

Sure we do.

Jesus said to "judge with righteous judgment."

That includes using the law.

Christ was crucified, what makes you think he supports crucifixion_

The law says (or, in the case of America's laws, should say or at the very least resemble):

‘Whoever kills any man shall surely be put to death.Whoever kills an animal shall make it good, animal for animal.‘If a man causes disfigurement of his neighbor, as he has done, so shall it be done to him—fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; as he has caused disfigurement of a man, so shall it be done to him.And whoever kills an animal shall restore it; but whoever kills a man shall be put to death.You shall have the same law for the stranger and for one from your own country; for I am the Lord your God.’ ” - Leviticus 24:17-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus24:17-22&version=NKJV

Jesus said:

He answered and said to them, [JESUS]“Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”—then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me.And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”[/JESUS] - Matthew 15:3-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:3-9&version=NKJV

Doesn't sound like He opposes the death penalty to me...

 

[ok doser]

You don't have any business contributing to this world's punishments...

...because...?????

 

[Crucifer]

...because...?????

For one, it's hypocrisy. Did Jesus or his apostles dabble at all into punishing others? It's virtually a non-existent thing in the New Testament, there is never once a calling to support prosecution of anybody.

 

[musterion]

you make the mistake of thinking that our current period of stability is historically the norm

it isn't

Nope, we are (have been...were) a major aberration from the historical norm of life being nasty, brutish and short.

 

[JudgeRightly]

For one, it's hypocrisy. Did Jesus or his apostles dabble at all into punishing others? It's virtually a non-existent thing in the New Testament, there is never once a calling to support prosecution of anybody.

You've apparently never read what happened to Paul nor his reaction to it...

So Paul said, “I stand at Caesar’s judgment seat, where I ought to be judged. To the Jews I have done no wrong, as you very well know.For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving of death, I do not object to dying; but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them. I appeal to Caesar.” - Acts 25:10-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts25:10-11&version=NKJV

:think:

 

[Crucifer]

You've apparently never read what happened to Paul nor his reaction to it...

So Paul said, “I stand at Caesar’s judgment seat, where I ought to be judged. To the Jews I have done no wrong, as you very well know.For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving of death, I do not object to dying; but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them. I appeal to Caesar.” - Acts 25:10-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts25:10-11&version=NKJV

:think:

More like a red herring than anything. It doesn't imply that Christians should be in the business of procuting.

 

[Crucifer]

*prosecuting

 

[JudgeRightly]

More like a red herring than anything. It doesn't imply that Christians should be in the business of procuting.

Jesus said:

[JESUS]Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”[/JESUS] - John 7:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John7:24&version=NKJV

Paul said:

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge?I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? - 1 Corinthians 6:2-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians6:2-5&version=NKJV

You were saying?

 

[Crucifer]

Jesus said:

[JESUS]Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”[/JESUS] - John 7:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John7:24&version=NKJV

Paul said:

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge?I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? - 1 Corinthians 6:2-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians6:2-5&version=NKJV

You were saying?

At what point in time did any of them ever condemn or wish punishment on others?
You take these verses and think that it gives you passage to be sitting around casually talking about putting people to death or prosecuting them for things you find go against your religiosity, which is just abusing the scriptures.