ECT True or False question (Billy Graham)

[Lon]

I do. It's in the context of the verses you put up yet you skipped it. Why is that?

Spoiler

Jesus instructed the apostles on how to make someone a Christian.
Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
And we see the apostles do just that, even Paul.
Acts 19:5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Jesus in the same conversation before his ascension he says:
Mk. 16:15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
You see the order the Lord gives on being saved. If we look at the conversion of Paul, it agrees. His sins were not forgiven until he was made a Christian by being baptized in the name of Jesus.
Acts 22: 16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’




If we look at the context it's obvious. People were claiming to follow the one who baptized them. Although Paul preached to many and many believed he only personally baptized a few. That is the meaning of he was not sent to baptize but to preach. He preaches but he is not under obligation to do the baptizing. As we can see when he actually preached to these Corinthians.
Acts 18:8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.

Paul was thankful because:
15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name.

Notice the "in my name".

Why does Paul ask this question?
Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

1) I didn't skip it. It is unconnected from 'what must I do' else "and" would have been there with a directive.
What was 'done' afterward is incidental to the answer to the question 'what must I do?'
2) Paul asks it, because 'in Christ' is crucial. Being baptized by Paul, was not. He was 'glad' not just concerned. He was glad he hadn't baptized anybody. Why? You asked. Specifically because their relationship was NOT with Paul, but with the Lord Jesus Christ. Especially then, the 'way' one declared they were for the Lord Jesus Christ, was by baptism. If I'm correct, and 'declaration' is the point, then telling people you are a Christian is part of the definition of 'baptism.' Sharing the gospel is part of the definition of 'baptism.' Baptidzo is a transliterated word. I believe context gives us some clarity that 'declaration' is close to its meaning. You are certainly welcome to disagree because context drives the meaning and we are both capable of reading for context. To me, it means declaration. Is water necessary? To me, that's beside the point. In Him -Lon

 

[Tambora]

The righteousness of Christ has to be in us

His righteousness (what HE did, not you) is accounted to you.
Be glad for that good news because your righteousness would have never measured up.

, and we too have to be obedient to God as he was.

Jesus said that even if one rose from the dead it would not persuade anyone, therefore they were to listen to Moses and the prophets.
What do Moses and prophets tell you to do? (It's a pretty long list.)

Jesus wasn't our perfect example for nothing.

A ludicrous thing for you to say in this conversation, as no one has suggested He was our perfect sacrifice for nothing.

Those who truly follow Jesus, will be those who love God with all their hearts and they are those who obey God and live by his will

Only Christ has fully and 100% done that.

and they will receive the Holy Spirit in God's time, and they will then start to produce the fruits of the Spirit in their lives, love faith, mercy, forgiveness, gentleness etc and they all come from love. You will know Gods people by their fruits, they won't just be speaking it, they will be living it out. Those born of God will be filled with the love of God and others will see the love of God and life of Christ in their lives.

Again, I ask, ...... who is in control when you sin , you or the Holy Spirit?

 

[marhig]

Nope.
I'm saying that if you have given the Holy Spirit control of your flesh and spirit, then neither your flesh or your spirit could sin because if the Holy Spirit were IN CONTROL there would be no sin committed.
Since we do still commit sin at times, how can the Holy Spirit be IN CONTROL of us?

What do you think that the Holy Spirit is doing in the hearts of those who belong to Christ?

 

[Tambora]

that means you will have will to strive to obey Jesus' teachings.

If we don't have spirit of obedience, we stay sinful because without spirit of obedience, the HS is not in you.

it is that simple, friend.

So, because you still sin, the Holy Spirit is not in you controlling your actions and choices.

 

[turbosixx]

To me, it means declaration. Is water necessary? To me, that's beside the point. In Him -Lon

To challenge your thinking. When Paul asks "or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" He's singling out the Corinthians who were baptized in the name of Jesus, being water baptism, Acts 10:47-48. And we can see from the context that it's obvious others had baptized the Corinthians such as Peter and Apollos.
The believers were baptized, some by Paul.
Acts 18:8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.

So, when Paul gives them an example of "not desiring evil" as those who left Egypt, he tries to show the commonality between the two. I suggest he starts with baptism since they were added to Christ by being baptized in his name and he confirms water baptism by mentioning the cloud and the sea twice.

Anyway, Paul traveled the world converting people to Christianity by baptizing the believers.

 

[meshak]

So, because you still sin, the Holy Spirit is not in you controlling your actions and choices.

Nope, I still sin because I am not perfect. Jesus' standard is perfection and sinless and pure.

I already explained tons of times that if we have will to follow Jesus with all our might, the HS will wipe away all our unrighteousness or sinfulness, so we will be perfect in God's eye.

Jesus says nothing is impossible, meaning the HS will wipe away all our sinfulness or imperfect faith.

But we have to have the will to follow Him whole heartedly.

Jesus does not approve of lip service. Faith comes with actions, not believing you don't have to do anything because Jesus is doing all the work for you.

why is it so difficult to understand?

 

[meshak]

Salvation is life long endeavor.

Jesus says to be faithful until the end.

it is not one time confession.

 

[Tambora]

What do you think that the Holy Spirit is doing in the hearts of those who belong to Christ?

I ask again, since you brought up the notion of the Holy Spirit's control ........ WHO is in control when you sin, you or the Holy Spirit?
Either the Holy Spirit controls your actions or He does not.

People seem to have the notion that the Holy Spirit is some sort of entity sitting on your shoulder whispering over and over in your ear "Try harder. Try harder. Try harder."
But what I hear the Holy Spirit saying is that the Son has already completed what needed to be done, paid in full.
And I rejoice.

 

[Tambora]

Salvation is life long endeavor.

Jesus says to be faithful until the end.

it is not one time confession.

Christ died once to pay the debt.
It's a done deal.
It's been paid in full, you own nothing.

But if you want to keep relying on your own deeds, you will be sorely disappointed in how far below the correct amount of measurement is required .... 100%.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Christ died once to pay the debt.
It's a done deal.
It's been paid in full, you own nothing.

But if you want to keep relying on your own deeds, you will be sorely disappointed in how far below the correct amount of measurement is required .... 100%.

Meshaks stubbornness is her downfall.

 

[marhig]

His righteousness (what HE did, not you) is accounted to you.
Be glad for that good news because your righteousness would have never measured up.

Jesus said that even if one rose from the dead it would not persuade anyone, therefore they were to listen to Moses and the prophets.
What do Moses and prophets tell you to do? (It's a pretty long list.)

A ludicrous thing for you to say in this conversation, as no one has suggested He was our perfect sacrifice for nothing.


Only Christ has fully and 100% done that.


Again, I ask, ...... who is in control when you sin , you or the Holy Spirit?

Perfect example, means that Jesus lived a perfect life being an example for us, and we are to follow his example.

1 Peter 2

For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Also, what do you think of these verses? Here's Jesus, Peter and Paul telling us to turn from sin. So I believe that we are to turn from sin and obey God.

Matthew 16

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

1 Peter 4

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

And this one

Acts 5

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

And this

Colossians 3:5

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

 

[marhig]

I ask again, since you brought up the notion of the Holy Spirit's control ........ WHO is in control when you sin, you or the Holy Spirit?
Either the Holy Spirit controls your actions or He does not.

People seem to have the notion that the Holy Spirit is some sort of entity sitting on your shoulder whispering over and over in your ear "Try harder. Try harder. Try harder."
But what I hear the Holy Spirit saying is that the Son has already completed what needed to be done, paid in full.
And I rejoice.

What? So you don't believe that the Holy Spirit helps you to overcome sin?

 

[Derf]

I would disagree, this is a conversion of Christians. How did Jesus instruct the apostles to make Christians?

Question 1 of 2.

If someone knows he/she is a sinner, what do they need to know to be saved? Tell me exactly what you think.

I don't think the continuance of a Christian life is really any different than the start of a Christian life, do you?

If we are to be repenting and believing as we continue to follow Christ, then it seems that beginning to repent and believe is necessary to begin to follow Christ.

Is the moment of salvation a magic moment, where we only do that thing one time?

Aren't we to cling to the Rock of our salvation at every moment, once we start to cling?

 

[God's Truth]

Billy Graham is right when he says we have to have faith and repent of sins.

However, he did say some things that were not accurate; such as saying God loves everyone.

But the truth is that God loves those who love Him by obeying Him.

God loves His creation, which is 'us' and 'everyone' in general.

God does not even know you personally if you do not obey Him.

People are going to hell for a reason.

Billy Graham also gave a false message for ecumenical reasons...so much for God's Truth.

 

[God's Truth]

I don't think the continuance of a Christian life is really any different than the start of a Christian life, do you?

If we are to be repenting and believing as we continue to follow Christ, then it seems that beginning to repent and believe is necessary to begin to follow Christ.

Is the moment of salvation a magic moment, where we only do that thing one time?

Aren't we to cling to the Rock of our salvation at every moment, once we start to cling?

There should be a time where you have your eyes of your heart opened.

 

[Derf]

Have you given the Holy Spirit control of your flesh?
If 'yes', then how is your flesh still sinning?
If 'no', then why haven't you?

That good work has not been completed in me. My flesh still wants its own way. My mind/heart wants to follow Christ.

There are quite a few fleshly things I've learned to control with the Spirit's help, by walking in the Spirit.

But my flesh is not sinning now as much as it used to. The Spirit, praise the Lord, is making progress in me!

Have you not given the Holy Spirit ANY control over your flesh? When are you going to? Do you really sin just as much today as when you first believed? Do you not believe that Jesus Christ has the power to save us from sin?

 

[Derf]

There should be a time where you have your eyes of your heart opened.

What does that mean? Did Jesus or Paul talk about the eyes of our hearts being opened?

 

[God's Truth]

What does that mean? Did Jesus or Paul talk about the eyes of our hearts being opened?

Ephesians 1:18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people,

Acts 26:18
to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those sanctified by faith in Me.'

...and more.

 

[Lon]

To challenge your thinking. When Paul asks "or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" He's singling out the Corinthians who were baptized in the name of Jesus, being water baptism, Acts 10:47-48. And we can see from the context that it's obvious others had baptized the Corinthians such as Peter and Apollos.
The believers were baptized, some by Paul.
Acts 18:8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.

So, when Paul gives them an example of "not desiring evil" as those who left Egypt, he tries to show the commonality between the two. I suggest he starts with baptism since they were added to Christ by being baptized in his name and he confirms water baptism by mentioning the cloud and the sea twice.

Anyway, Paul traveled the world converting people to Christianity by baptizing the believers.

In your sig "wretched man that I am...." Did baptism or repentance stop you from being wretched? How about the work of Christ?

On Baptism, remember I'd said that it was a transliteration and have a hard time explaining exactly what it is. We do know from history, that people who changed religion did so to show a clean break. It was a declaration. For you and I, in Christ, that change is wrought by Him. We are new creations. There is nothing you can do to help Jesus with that. John 15:5 1 Corinthians 4:7 (had that last one memorized, need to work on it again. It's important).

 

[Derf]

For me:

2) He is therefore 'Lord' whether I recognize this or not. There is no making the head of the family, 'the head of the family.' He already is.

No, you're right. Just as He is Lord of even those going to hell.