Trinity Belief Is A Delusion

[jzeidler]

I said

Jesus made it very clear, that He wasn't God when He said the Father is the ONLY true God.



John 17:3

3"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

(NKJ)





Jesus backed it up many times like this one. Jesus said He had the very same God and the very same Father that we do.



John 20:17

17Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"

(NKJ)

You do realize that Jesus says this because Jesus is flesh right?

Jer 32:27 "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me?

Jesus is God. Jesus is flesh. God is his God both because Jesus is flesh and because Jesus is showing us a way to live. Therefore your argument of saying that since Jesus calls God his God that makes Jesus not God invalid because he is saying this because God is the God of all flesh and Jesus is in a flesh body.

Also, Jesus is God!
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

 

[Caino]

You do realize that Jesus says this because Jesus is flesh right?

Jer 32:27 "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me?

Jesus is God. Jesus is flesh. God is his God both because Jesus is flesh and because Jesus is showing us a way to live. Therefore your argument of saying that since Jesus calls God his God that makes Jesus not God invalid because he is saying this because God is the God of all flesh and Jesus is in a flesh body.

Also, Jesus is God!
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

Considering that Jesus is, was and will always be a divine Son, then while incarnate this miraculous human/divine personality would then be expected to speak from a duel nature; at times as man subject to the will of the Father, at other times by divine right.

Jesus is God the Son who came down from glory to take on the flesh of man not only for our benefit but so that he might come closer to an understanding of what man experiences.

 

[Squeaky]

So Jesus willingly and knowingly mislead them knowing that they and billions of other people would interpret as him clearly claiming to be God? That would make Jesus the most seditious person in history.

I said
Jesus never mislead them. Jesus said He was the Son of God, not God. Their reasoning and understanding was where the deception comes in.

 

[Squeaky]

You do realize that Jesus says this because Jesus is flesh right?

Jer 32:27 "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me?

Jesus is God. Jesus is flesh. God is his God both because Jesus is flesh and because Jesus is showing us a way to live. Therefore your argument of saying that since Jesus calls God his God that makes Jesus not God invalid because he is saying this because God is the God of all flesh and Jesus is in a flesh body.

Also, Jesus is God!
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

I said
You have a misunderstanding here. Jesus wasn't in the old testament. And if you will notice in the old testament LORD was all capital letters. Which is referring to the LORD God the Father.
In the new testament after Jesus proved Himself to God the Father. The Father gave Jesus the title of "Lord" not LORD.

You are perverting them verses.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NKJ)

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
(NKJ)

John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
(NKJ)

 

[Squeaky]

Considering that Jesus is, was and will always be a divine Son, then while incarnate this miraculous human/divine personality would then be expected to speak from a duel nature; at times as man subject to the will of the Father, at other times by divine right.

Jesus is God the Son who came down from glory to take on the flesh of man not only for our benefit but so that he might come closer to an understanding of what man experiences.

I said
To many assume to much. When Everything that Jesus spoke could have been from the Father and in parables.

John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)

Matt 13:34-35
34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world."
(NKJ)

 

[Caino]

I said
To many assume to much. When Everything that Jesus spoke could have been from the Father and in parables.

John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)

Matt 13:34-35
34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world."
(NKJ)

You may not get it but that doesn't mean others don't.

 

[Danoh]

Trinity Is A Strong Delusion

So I might just as well show it to you. God said if you dont have a love of the truth He would put strong delusions in scripture that you would fall for. He did. Now there are verses that can be taken out of context to form a deceiving belief. The trinity has done this. Trinity isnt in the bible, deity isnt in the bible. I refuted all the evidence they could come up with in the ninties. So now they step outside of the scriptures to explain something that isnt in scripture the trinity. They explain the trinity with eggs, water, door nobs, human families. They break every rule that a believer must follow to find the truth. Dont think beyond what is written, and dont add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses.

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

xxx Once they get you hooked, they start telling you no one can truly understand the trinity, and no one will truly understand it until after we leave this world. That is not what scripture teaches. Scripture teaches us there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. The trinity plants all these doubts in your mind so you won't go looking for the truth.

Mark 4:22-23
22 "For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light.
23 "If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."
(NKJ)

xxx They want you to worship God through your imagination. And if you want to find the Holy Spirit you must get rid of your imagination. The only power we have against deception is the Word of God. The trinitarians dont want you in the Word.

2 Cor 10:4-5
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
(KJV)

xxx Trinitarians are the blind leading the blind.

Luke 6:39
39 And He spoke a parable to them: "Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into the ditch?
(NKJ)

II Th 2:10-12
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(NKJ)


2 Pet 3:16
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
(NKJ)

All "beliefs" are a "delusion."

The question is, is the particular delusion sound?

Case in point my statement All "beliefs" are a "delusion" is itself a delusion.

The issue is the question is - is the particular delusion sound?

Of course that goes hand in hand with the particular "delusion" as to what constitutes "sound."

 

[Squeaky]

You may not get it but that doesn't mean others don't.

I said
Oh I get it. I used to be in the milk understanding also. Then I went through the meat and I came to the revelations of Jesus Christ. That is when I learned all about the deceptions of the devil.

 

[Squeaky]

All "beliefs" are a "delusion."

The question is, is the particular delusion sound?

Case in point my statement All "beliefs" are a "delusion" is itself a delusion.

The issue is the question is - is the particular delusion sound?

Of course that goes hand in hand with the particular "delusion" as to what constitutes "sound."

I said
Your an intellectual idiot if you think that makes any sense. You must be a kid.

 

[Caino]

I said
Oh I get it. I used to be in the milk understanding also. Then I went through the meat and I came to the revelations of Jesus Christ. That is when I learned all about the deceptions of the devil.

Not really, you just take yourself to seriously. I listen to what Jesus said and take the want-to-be prophets with a grain of salt.

Jesus is in heaven with all power and authority, he is present along with the Father in spirit right now, right here.

 

[Squeaky]

Not really, you just take yourself to seriously. I listen to what Jesus said and take the want-to-be prophets with a grain of salt.

Jesus is in heaven with all power and authority, he is present along with the Father in spirit right now, right here.

I said
You sound like your still in the milk understanding.

 

[jzeidler]

I said

Jesus never mislead them. Jesus said He was the Son of God, not God. Their reasoning and understanding was where the deception comes in.

So then Jesus was completely stupid and ignorant? Any semi to even non-intelligent Jew would have viewed what he said as as nothing more than calling himself God. First because he calls himself eternal. Second he clearly uses the name for God, I AM. This was so clear to the people they were going to stone him there. So if he didn't know they would react like that he was completely retarded. Or he did know how they would react because he knew they would take it as him calling himself God and said it anyway this misleading ultimately billions of people thus making him maniacal and malevolent. Or he actually meant what he said because he actually is God.

Ps. Jesus is God. Isaiah in Isaiah 6 says that he is MIGHTY GOD and EVERLASTING FATHER. All pointing to Jesus being God.

 

[jzeidler]

I said

You have a misunderstanding here. Jesus wasn't in the old testament. And if you will notice in the old testament LORD was all capital letters. Which is referring to the LORD God the Father.

In the new testament after Jesus proved Himself to God the Father. The Father gave Jesus the title of "Lord" not LORD.



You are perverting them verses.



John 1:1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(NKJ)



John 1:14

14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

(NKJ)



John 1:18

18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

(NKJ)

Actually Jesus was in the Old Testament it's called prophecy. Also, Jesus never had to prove himself to God. Jesus was accepted and loved because of who he is, God the son. When he was baptized God the father said for all to hear that Jesus is his beloved son and he is well pleased with him. At that time Jesus had done nothing. No miracles or anything. Jesus never proved himself to God, neither do we. We accept Jesus and know that he did great work in our behalf.

Go on, explain how I'm "perverting" those verses.

 

[Danoh]

I said
Your an intellectual idiot if you think that makes any sense. You must be a kid.

Of course you are right... that is your delusion.

Its beyond you to see that, at this point, though.

 

[Caino]

 

[Squeaky]

So then Jesus was completely stupid and ignorant? Any semi to even non-intelligent Jew would have viewed what he said as as nothing more than calling himself God. First because he calls himself eternal. Second he clearly uses the name for God, I AM. This was so clear to the people they were going to stone him there. So if he didn't know they would react like that he was completely retarded. Or he did know how they would react because he knew they would take it as him calling himself God and said it anyway this misleading ultimately billions of people thus making him maniacal and malevolent. Or he actually meant what he said because he actually is God.

Ps. Jesus is God. Isaiah in Isaiah 6 says that he is MIGHTY GOD and EVERLASTING FATHER. All pointing to Jesus being God.

I said
You really have along ways to go.

Isa 9-6
I seen Billy Grahames son preach on this.
He gave a good understanding. Like it says the government will be upon His shoulders. That hasnt happened yet.
Upon His government and peace there will be no end. That hasnt happened yet.
And over His kingdom. He hasnt got a kingdom yet.
This is a prophesy of Jesus Christs second coming. Which hasnt happened yet.

Isa 9:6-7
6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, to order it and establish it with judgment and justice from that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
(NKJ)

Dont forget about the old testament

2 Cor 3:13-15
13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
(NKJ)

 

[Squeaky]

Actually Jesus was in the Old Testament it's called prophecy. Also, Jesus never had to prove himself to God. Jesus was accepted and loved because of who he is, God the son. When he was baptized God the father said for all to hear that Jesus is his beloved son and he is well pleased with him. At that time Jesus had done nothing. No miracles or anything. Jesus never proved himself to God, neither do we. We accept Jesus and know that he did great work in our behalf.

Go on, explain how I'm "perverting" those verses.

I said

Heb 5:8-10
8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
10 called by God as High Priest "according to the order of Melchizedek,"
(NKJ)

 

[Squeaky]

Of course you are right... that is your delusion.

Its beyond you to see that, at this point, though.

I said
lol How old are you?

 

[jzeidler]

I said

You really have along ways to go.



Isa 9-6

I seen Billy Grahames son preach on this.

He gave a good understanding. Like it says the government will be upon His shoulders. That hasnt happened yet.

Upon His government and peace there will be no end. That hasnt happened yet.

And over His kingdom. He hasnt got a kingdom yet.

This is a prophesy of Jesus Christs second coming. Which hasnt happened yet.



Isa 9:6-7

6For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

7Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, to order it and establish it with judgment and justice from that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

(NKJ)



Dont forget about the old testament



2 Cor 3:13-15

13unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.

14But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.

15But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

(NKJ)

I admit I have a lot to learn about Jesus since he's God I'll never stop learning. But you need to start hearing the Holy Spirit and stop fighting against him.

And what you said had nothing to do with Isaiah obviously believing and proclaiming that Jesus is God when he said that he is mighty God and everlasting father. So I'll simply ask it in a question. Did Isaiah lie to billions of people when he blatantly calls Jesus God by calling him mighty God and everlasting father?

 

[Squeaky]

I admit I have a lot to learn about Jesus since he's God I'll never stop learning. But you need to start hearing the Holy Spirit and stop fighting against him.

And what you said had nothing to do with Isaiah obviously believing and proclaiming that Jesus is God when he said that he is mighty God and everlasting father. So I'll simply ask it in a question. Did Isaiah lie to billions of people when he blatantly calls Jesus God by calling him mighty God and everlasting father?

I said
Your under some sort of carnal delusion that you can understand the old testament. What you think you see is covered by the veil.
What I said still stands. Deal with it.

2 Cor 3:13-15
13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
(NKJ)