Trinity Belief Is A Delusion

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JFish123

New member
10 QUESTIONS for any JEHOVAHS WITNESS here on this thread:

1. If the Watchtower organization rejects others calling them "inspired" yet the Watchtower organization does call themselves "God's Spirit-directed Prophet" what is the difference? Is there such a thing as an "uninspired prophet"?

2. Since the Organization has received "new light" regarding the 1914 generation, and completely changed their view on this, does this mean that all the former Jehovah's witnesses who were disfellowshipped years ago for the same view the organization is now teaching will automatically be accepted into fellowship again? Were these Ex-Jw's in fact disfellowshipped for truth and knew things that the governing body did not?

3. If the name "Jehovah" is so important, then why does Acts 4:12 say, "There is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name [v10 Jesus Christ] under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved"? Would this not have been the logical place for God to have used the name "YHWH"?

4. Since the Jehovah's Witness organization currently rejects most of the teachings of its founder Charles Taze Russell (who was president of the organization from 1879-1916), and since they also reject "Judge" Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president from 1916 - 1942, how can we be sure that in 25 more years, Jehovah's Witnesses won't also reject the current president, Milton G. Henschel (1992 - present), as they did Russell and Rutherford?
What kind of confidence can anyone have in an organization that rejected its founder and first two presidents for the first 63 years of its existence? This represents about 53% of the time they have existed?

5. Jn 1:3 says that Jesus created "all things", but in Isa 44:24, God says that he "by myself" created the heavens and the earth and asks the question "Who was with me?" when the heavens and the earth were created. How can this be since if Jesus was created by God, then he would have been with God when everything else was created?

6. The NWT translates Jn 1:1 as "... and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was a god". How can the Word (Jesus) be "a god" if God says in Deut 32:39, "See now that I-I am he, and there are NO gods together WITH me ..."?

7. If the spirit of a man has no existence apart from the body, why does Stephen just before his death in Acts 7:59, pray to Jesus to "receive my spirit"? How could Jesus receive Stephen's spirit if a man's spirit ceases to exist when the body dies?

8. If Christians are persecuted for the sake of Jehovah's name, why did Christ tell the first Christians that they would be persecuted for the sake of his (Jesus') name instead of Jehovah's (Mt 24:9, Mk 13:13, Lk 21:12, 17, Jn 15:21, and Acts 9:16)?

9. The Bible says that ONLY God is our savior (Hos 13:4, Isa 43:11,45:21, etc.). How can it be then, that the Bible repeatedly says that Jesus Christ is our savior (Lk 2:11, Phil 3:20, Tit 2:13, 3:6, 2Pet 1:1, 2:20, 3:18, etc.)?

10. If the human soul IS the person, how could the soul go out of a person (Gen 35:18) or come back into a person (1Kings 17:21)?
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
Caino said:
When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,…​
Click to expand...

If Jesus was God, would he not already have all authority?

Who gave Jesus all authority?

If God gave Jesus all authority, then God would not have any left, now would He?

All authority to do what? To usurp the authority of the one who gave him authority?
 
S

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
JFish123 said:
10 QUESTIONS for any JEHOVAHS WITNESS here on this thread:

1. If the Watchtower organization rejects others calling them "inspired" yet the Watchtower organization does call themselves "God's Spirit-directed Prophet" what is the difference? Is there such a thing as an "uninspired prophet"?

2. Since the Organization has received "new light" regarding the 1914 generation, and completely changed their view on this, does this mean that all the former Jehovah's witnesses who were disfellowshipped years ago for the same view the organization is now teaching will automatically be accepted into fellowship again? Were these Ex-Jw's in fact disfellowshipped for truth and knew things that the governing body did not?

3. If the name "Jehovah" is so important, then why does Acts 4:12 say, "There is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name [v10 Jesus Christ] under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved"? Would this not have been the logical place for God to have used the name "YHWH"?

4. Since the Jehovah's Witness organization currently rejects most of the teachings of its founder Charles Taze Russell (who was president of the organization from 1879-1916), and since they also reject "Judge" Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president from 1916 - 1942, how can we be sure that in 25 more years, Jehovah's Witnesses won't also reject the current president, Milton G. Henschel (1992 - present), as they did Russell and Rutherford?
What kind of confidence can anyone have in an organization that rejected its founder and first two presidents for the first 63 years of its existence? This represents about 53% of the time they have existed?

5. Jn 1:3 says that Jesus created "all things", but in Isa 44:24, God says that he "by myself" created the heavens and the earth and asks the question "Who was with me?" when the heavens and the earth were created. How can this be since if Jesus was created by God, then he would have been with God when everything else was created?

6. The NWT translates Jn 1:1 as "... and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was a god". How can the Word (Jesus) be "a god" if God says in Deut 32:39, "See now that I-I am he, and there are NO gods together WITH me ..."?

7. If the spirit of a man has no existence apart from the body, why does Stephen just before his death in Acts 7:59, pray to Jesus to "receive my spirit"? How could Jesus receive Stephen's spirit if a man's spirit ceases to exist when the body dies?

8. If Christians are persecuted for the sake of Jehovah's name, why did Christ tell the first Christians that they would be persecuted for the sake of his (Jesus') name instead of Jehovah's (Mt 24:9, Mk 13:13, Lk 21:12, 17, Jn 15:21, and Acts 9:16)?

9. The Bible says that ONLY God is our savior (Hos 13:4, Isa 43:11,45:21, etc.). How can it be then, that the Bible repeatedly says that Jesus Christ is our savior (Lk 2:11, Phil 3:20, Tit 2:13, 3:6, 2Pet 1:1, 2:20, 3:18, etc.)?

10. If the human soul IS the person, how could the soul go out of a person (Gen 35:18) or come back into a person (1Kings 17:21)?
Click to expand...

I said
Well I'm not a Jehovah's Witness so I cant answer any of your questions. But you are venting loudly on them. Are you an XJehovah's Witness ? I have never been enfluenced by any denomination.
 
J

JFish123

New member
Squeaky said:
I said

Well I'm not a Jehovah's Witness so I cant answer any of your questions. But you are venting loudly on them. Are you an XJehovah's Witness ? I have never been enfluenced by any denomination.
Click to expand...


Nope not an ex-JW but you just use wordings of verses and hold beliefs that are like there's. Jesus is a created being, there's no trinity, are all docterine a of the Jehovahs Witnesses
 
drbrumley

drbrumley

Well-known member
Squeaky said:
I said
Well then help me out, what do you think it says?
Click to expand...

COL 1:15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

How exactly are you reading this?
 
S

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
JFish123 said:
Nope not an ex-JW but you just use wordings of verses and hold beliefs that are like there's. Jesus is a created being, there's no trinity, are all docterine a of the Jehovahs Witnesses
Click to expand...

I said
lol well I would have to figure they got some of it right then.
 
J

JFish123

New member
Trinity Belief Is A Delusion

Some people like to interpret the word "firstborn" here to mean "first created" because it is consistent with their theological presupposition that Jesus is a created thing. Of course, Jesus, the Word become flesh (John 1:1, 14) is not a created thing but that hasn't stopped people from claiming He is.
Nevertheless, there is a Greek word for "first created," and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the Colossians. He did not use it here. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn" and that is what we find here in Colossians 1:15. The Greek for "first created" would be proto with ktizo, and it is not used here.
Second, the Biblical use of the word "firstborn" can mean the first born child in a family (Luke 2:7), but it can also mean "pre-eminence." In Psalm 89:20, 27 it says, "I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him . . . I also shall make him My first-born," (NASB). As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family, was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence.
Third, firstborn is also a title that is transferable:
Gen. 41:51-52, "And Joseph called the name of the first-born Manasseh: For, said he, God hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house. And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath made me fruitful in the land of my affliction."
Jer. 31:9, " . . . for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn."
Scripture best interprets Scripture. Firstborn does not require a meaning of first created as some people says it means here. "Firstborn" can mean the first born person in a family, and it can also be a title of preeminence which is transferable. That is obvious since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14) and is also the first born son of Mary. In addition, He is the pre-eminent one in all of creation. People should consider this when they examine Col. 1:15.
 
S

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
Bright Raven said:
Where does it say that Jesus is created? Book, Chapter, and verse.
Click to expand...

I said
Ok. Everything that was born was on earth. But even before anything was created Jesus was.

Col 1:15
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJ)
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Squeaky said:
I said
Ok. Everything that was born was on earth. But even before anything was created Jesus was.

Col 1:15
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJ)
Click to expand...

That is a quote on position not physical birth. Try again.
 
S

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
JFish123 said:
Some people like to interpret the word "firstborn" here to mean "first created" because it is consistent with their theological presupposition that Jesus is a created thing. Of course, Jesus, the Word become flesh (John 1:1, 14) is not a created thing but that hasn't stopped people from claiming He is.
Nevertheless, there is a Greek word for "first created," and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the Colossians. He did not use it here. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn" and that is what we find here in Colossians 1:15. The Greek for "first created" would be proto with ktizo, and it is not used here.
Second, the Biblical use of the word "firstborn" can mean the first born child in a family (Luke 2:7), but it can also mean "pre-eminence." In Psalm 89:20, 27 it says, "I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him . . . I also shall make him My first-born," (NASB). As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family, was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence.
Third, firstborn is also a title that is transferable:
Gen. 41:51-52, "And Joseph called the name of the first-born Manasseh: For, said he, God hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house. And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath made me fruitful in the land of my affliction."
Jer. 31:9, " . . . for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn."
Scripture best interprets Scripture. Firstborn does not require a meaning of first created as some people says it means here. "Firstborn" can mean the first born person in a family, and it can also be a title of preeminence which is transferable. That is obvious since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14) and is also the first born son of Mary. In addition, He is the pre-eminent one in all of creation. People should consider this when they examine Col. 1:15.
Click to expand...

I said
That's alittle to intellectual for me.

Matt 23:24
24 "Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
(NKJ)
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Squeaky said:
Col 1:15
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJ)



I said
That wasn't a physical birth. It was done before there was any physical to have.
Click to expand...

It happened in eternity past. Oops, there is that word eternity again. We know what that means.
 
J

JFish123

New member
Squeaky said:
I said

That's alittle to intellectual for me.



Matt 23:24

24"Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

(NKJ)
Click to expand...


I'm using scripture to interpret scripture. Hardly straining a gnat. Just because someone can't understand a point In scripture doesn't make it incorrect
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
John 14:25-26 KJV

John 14:27 KJV -

and

John 14:28 KJV

CLEARLY shows Father, Son, Holy Ghost - the 3 are One = Trinity/Triune

also plainly Jesus says the Father is greater than He
 
S

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
patrick jane said:
John 14:25-26 KJV

John 14:27 KJV -

and

John14:28 KJV

CLEARLY shows Father, Son, Holy Ghost - the 3 are One = Trinity/Triune

also plainly Jesus says the Father is greater than He
Click to expand...

I said
well if the Father is greater than Jesus. That means the Father is the only God.
 
J

JFish123

New member
God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as the Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc. These are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top