toldailytopic: Why are there so many Christian denominations? And is that necessarily

[genuineoriginal]

If Protestants loved Our Lord, they would submit to the authority of His Holy Church.

If all Christians (Catholic, Protestant, etc.) loved Our Lord, they would submit to His authority and not to the traditions of men.

 

[The Berean]

Then submit to His commands:

"This authority, however, (though it has been given to man and is exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying to Peter himself, 'Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound also in Heaven' etc., [Mt 16:19]. Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1]. Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff" (Unam Sanctam).

I submit to the command of Jesus. Why don't you?

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Again if you love Our Lord show some humility and love instead of arrogance and ignorance.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Have you ever considered the idea that the true Church is invisible and composed of many denominations, including even some Catholics and Greek/Eastern Orthodox?

I would say this in addition, that many denominations are different based only on style of worship and teaching and in many denominations there's more variation within the denomination than without. This is especially true of baptists since there is no centralized authority at all.

I think there are so many because people want to emphasize different aspects of the gospel. They want to worship in the way they feel led. So, especially in societies with a strong tendency towards individualism (and people dividing over minor issues), you end up with a buffet of different sorts of churches.

So long as Christ is preached I don't really care what the little pet peeve issues are. I may not be able to join just any church but I can worship in almost all of them. The diversity, to me, is not a bad thing.

Yep. The True Church can be found among the members of (almost) every Christian denomination, and even among the "unchurched".

 

[Traditio]

Have you ever considered the idea that the true Church is invisible and composed of many denominations, including even some Catholics and Greek/Eastern Orthodox?

How many gospels did Jesus preach? How many persons is Jesus? Is His person "the hypostatic union" or the "hypostatic multiplicity"?

 

[The Berean]

Yep. The True Church can be found among the members of (almost) every Christian denomination, and even among the "unchurched".

:up: I was raised in a nominally Catholic home as a kid so I have some Catholic education. I've met some neat Catholics in real life recently and I love to ask them questions, have genuine thoughtful discussions, and I have learned a great deal.

 

[Universalist]

I submit to the command of Jesus. Why don't you?



Again if you love Our Lord show some humility and love instead of arrogance and ignorance.

Honestly, there are few Catholics I've met that were not arrogant about their 'faith'.

I find this an oxymoron for people who claim to be the only ones with Jesus in them.

Of course this is not 'all' Catholics, but I think it goes along with the territory when you believe you are the ONLY original place God resides.

 

[The Berean]

Honestly, there are few Catholics I've met that were not arrogant about their 'faith'.

I find this an oxymoron for people who claim to be the only ones with Jesus in them.

Of course this is not 'all' Catholics, but I think it goes along with the territory when you believe you are the ONLY original place God resides.

I can't speak for Catholics but I met some new Catholic friends who are not like that at all. We can share with each, even disagree, without being disagreeable.

 

[Tambora]

toldailytopic: Why are there so many Christian denominations? And is that necessarily a bad thing?

There are so many denominations because some have decided that they already know it all, and therefore lock themselves into a doctrinal stance which leaves no room for growth of the understanding of scripture.

Is having many denominations a bad thing?
No.
If you find yourself in one that has locked their growth of understanding, then you can try another, or start another.

 

[Traditio]

There are so many denominations because some have decided that they already know it all, and therefore lock themselves into a doctrinal stance which leaves no room for growth of the understanding of scripture.

Is having many denominations a bad thing?
No.
If you find yourself in one that has locked their growth of understanding, then you can try another, or start another.

"No room for growth of the understanding"? Can you understand it any better than "completely as Christ intended"? Can you grow past that?

 

[Universalist]

I can't speak for Catholics but I met some new Catholic friends who are not like that at all. We can share with each, even disagree, without being disagreeable.

I definitely can't and don't speak for all of anybody either and I don't. It is nice when we can disagree without being disagreeable, of course.

 

[Nick M]

There are so many "denominations" basically because of differences in interpretations of Scripture and dispute over church doctrines, beliefs, and church government.

But why do they see it different? Is it like voting? I was raised catholic, and will stay that way. Something like that?

I realize many leave where they were raised. I was raised catholic. Then introduced to "Pentecostals" who prayed in tongues with interpretations and thought it meant something. Then I read the Bible and entered the Body of Christ.

 

[Alate_One]

How many gospels did Jesus preach?

Virtually all denominations preach the same gospel. The essence is the same.

How many persons is Jesus? Is His person "the hypostatic union" or the "hypostatic multiplicity"?

There are some denominations which differ here, the vast majority do not.

 

[IXOYE]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for July 21st, 2011 01:14 PM

toldailytopic: Why are there so many Christian denominations? And is that necessarily a bad thing?

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Well eph 4 says the "church" thru its elder and gifted leaders are to prepare the people for works of service where all the members of the Church will grow in unity and knowledge of Christ, until they are as completly and fully perfect as He was. Go read it before you tell me I'm wrong.

So the Church was doing things that were misdeeds, and people spoke out about if. A coupla hunnered years later Luther did the theses on what he saw as wrong, following the question elders directions in the pastoral letters. Then the German princes got behind Luther, who never wanted to break off from the Church, but supported the Princes that supported and hid, fed him.

Politics got in the way. Then we got Luther's Bible in German to the masses. With the campaign slogan we have been wronged now we teach ourselves, they lost all authority. Now anyone with a differing thought created a new denomination, some obviously not in the Spirit of God, I.e.Calvin.

Gal 5:19 recession to those factions and divisions as marks of the flesh.

John 17 shows Jesus prayed for Unity in the Church...was that prayer turned down?

So, keeps will say, what was Luther to do, let the church. Kill him?

And I always ask, like Stephen did? Or paul, Peter, etc.... maybe. Maybe God had planned some huge freedom party for Luther when HE, God, used this to united the churches through what Luther started. Maybe Luther was to be martyred, i dont know, but the results aren't what Jesus wanted. So, who has refused to let Christ be head of the Church?

The early Church looked a LOT like the liturgical Churches do today. Clement who lived and heard the apostles, as well as represent their teachings to others. Describes it in his letter to Corinth. There isn't a thing he writes that isn't supported by Scripture, however you habe to be fair with the worxs in the verses, and what clement says, because as a protestant, you have been taught ddifferent. But with a fair read, you will find, that everything Clement says fits in Scripture.

And there yiu have it, they'll why and how, and what, of the Protestant movement, presented by another Protestant.

Yes the irony is noted.

Its a king explanation as to why I'm not Catholic.

 

[BabyChristian]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for July 21st, 2011 01:14 PM

toldailytopic: Why are there so many Christian denominations? And is that necessarily a bad thing?

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
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Some believe in immersion (Baptists of course) and little things mainly. I think it's time we joined forces because the Mussies will get us. K:

 

[IXOYE]

Have you ever considered the idea that the true Church is invisible and composed of many denominations, including even some Catholics and Greek/Eastern Orthodox?

I would say this in addition, that many denominations are different based only on style of worship and teaching and in many denominations there's more variation within the denomination than without. This is especially true of baptists since there is no centralized authority at all.

I think there are so many because people want to emphasize different aspects of the gospel. They want to worship in the way they feel led. So, especially in societies with a strong tendency towards individualism (and people dividing over minor issues), you end up with a buffet of different sorts of churches.

So long as Christ is preached I don't really care what the little pet peeve issues are. I may not be able to join just any church but I can worship in almost all of them. The diversity, to me, is not a bad thing.

Have you ever considered that is what God settled for, since what Jesus asked for was cleaved from what started?

Hmmm. I think I just said the Protestant. Churches are cleavage. Don't get dirty, literally, not sexually.

 

[steko]

Christ is not divided.

1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit


Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

As for 'the visible church', denominations/divisions are inevitable since we all 'see through a glass darkly' and are bound to come to disagreements in understanding. Some submit to an earthly authority unquestioningly and of course that brings a sort of unity. I've never been much for the herd mentality. I enjoy fellowship with believers, but I don't expect to agree with everyone on everything. I find that I have to associate with those with whom I hold some central Biblical truths and am in agreement with a particular overall Biblical paradigm.

 

[keypurr]

If Protestants loved Our Lord, they would submit to the authority of His Holy Church.

And which church is that? It certainly is not the RCC.

 

[keypurr]

Then submit to His commands:

"This authority, however, (though it has been given to man and is exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying to Peter himself, 'Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound also in Heaven' etc., [Mt 16:19]. Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1]. Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff" (Unam Sanctam).

You don't.

Do you hold HIS Sabbath holy?
If not, you do not submit to HIS commands.

 

[IXOYE]

Christ is not divided.

1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit


Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

As for 'the visible church', denominations/divisions are inevitable since we all 'see through a glass darkly' and are bound to come to disagreements in understanding. Some submit to an earthly authority unquestioningly and of course that brings a sort of unity. I've never been much for the herd mentality. I enjoy fellowship with believers, but I don't expect to agree with everyone on everything. I find that I have to associate with those with whom I hold some central Biblical truths and am in agreement with a particular overall Biblical paradigm.

Church is not divided, is correct. Now, all the people that claim they are the right church..... well, it doesn't make them right. Like the verse, if the spirit of god indwells you, you are no longer in the flesh. So some people proclaim, they are no longer in the flesh, because they know they got the spirit, but the truth is, since they are still affected by that flesh nature, the proper conclusion is, I am not yet indwelled by the spirit.

Speaking of Church Unity. Read how that comes about in eph 4 12-17, and read the results of individuals in the body. I'm sorry to cause dilemmas but the RCC is sure as heck more in line with THAT section of Scripture, than the Protestant. Churches are. Make note, that the maturity, knowledge, and unity stem from works in this verse.

I used g
To rip Catholics hard, until an Episcopal priest friend of mine challenged me to use my debate background and write proofs for why my belief is right and they were wrong. The result was depressing. Even though I don't agree with some things, there are Biblical arguments for most that are more sound than Protestant position's.

So, I learn from everyone, even the Catholic bashing bigots you sometime face. I've not met many that are all right all the time. Especially me, I've made three or five major positional changes in the last dozen years. Most Protestants die claiming the same thing they learned in v.b.s.in third grade, and their understanding never got any deeper. Certainly not everyone, but I. Defend most, as a correct word.

 

[Buzzword]

"I love my Roman Catholic friends, and my faith is richer for listening to them share their experience of the Eucharistic mystery and the traditions of their church. I have deep respect for my Orthodox neighbors and feel a sense of mystery and awe when I worship amid the aroma of incense in their church. I love my Southern Baptist colleagues, whose love of the Scriptures and preaching of conversion have left their mark on me. And my Pentecostal friends have reminded me that the Holy Spirit continues to work in unexpected ways. While I’m drawn to the United Methodist Church’s attempt to hold together the evangelical and social gospels, and to stand in the center of the theological spectrum as a bridge between the left and the right, I don’t believe all Christians should be United Methodists. In fact, I think Christianity would be the poorer if they were."
-Adam Hamilton, Seeing Gray in a World of Black and White

Nothing which divides individual Christians is worth more than the relationships Christians build amongst ourselves.

We each commune with God, but that solitary communion is only half the story.
By communing with God and with each other, we are each edified and encouraged, strengthening our relationship with God and each other.

Denominations are the natural result of individuals bringing their own experiences and values to the table, and finding differences in opinion and priorities among their spiritual relatives.


The things we fight about on TOL are mere details.
We fight about them because TOL was established FOR DEBATE.
Thus, many of the more...boisterous...participants come across as pretentious, immature, and arrogant, because a forum full of AMENs would be boring.

...even if that would paint a picture of Christianity at its very best, rather than giving stolid atheists more justification for their position, and confusing any who are genuinely seeking the truth.