toldailytopic: Was the United States justified in fighting for their independence fro

[Todah]

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!”



“Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: First a right to life, secondly to liberty, and thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can”

Samuel Adams quotes (American patriot and Politician of the American Revolution. 1722-1803)


We are currently being stripped of our liberties, our rights and our righteousness, our families and our faith. Eventually one is left only with a few creature comforts and subsistence, the just rewards for compromise and fear of death.

We have forgotten Samuel Adams and his ilk, or rather he and posterity have forgotten us.

Here are a few things this country's independence were not founded upon. The right of a mother to have the baby in her womb killed.The removal of the name and the mention of the God of the Bible from all public discourse. The right of a homosexual to serve in the military, and to be married by the government.

By submitting to a government which takes away our rights to life and faith, and our righteousness, we are licking the hands that feed us, through its taxation, and redistribution of wealth.

Yes, we are currently justified in fighting for our independence from the government which has currently taken over our land and are rights.

 

[Buzzword]

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!”

“Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: First a right to life, secondly to liberty, and thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can”

Samuel Adams quotes (American patriot and Politician of the American Revolution. 1722-1803)

Good quotes.

We are currently being stripped of our liberties, our rights and our righteousness, our families and our faith. Eventually one is left only with a few creature comforts and subsistence, the just rewards for compromise and fear of death.

We have forgotten Samuel Adams and his ilk, or rather he and posterity have forgotten us.

Here are a few things this country's independence were not founded upon. The right of a mother to have the baby in her womb killed.The removal of the name and the mention of the God of the Bible from all public discourse. The right of a homosexual to serve in the military, and to be married by the government.

By submitting to a government which takes away our rights to life and faith, and our righteousness, we are licking the hands that feed us, through its taxation, and redistribution of wealth.

Yes, we are currently justified in fighting for our independence from the government which has currently taken over our land and are rights.

If you truly believe the former to be inalienable anti-rights, and the latter to be inalienable rights, then feel free to start a third war for independence (the second being the "Civil" War).

Gather your sheep, take up arms, and declare some part of the country independent.
Just don't act surprised when the government you wish to rebel against blasts you back to the stone age before you can fart thrice.

'Cause that's what they do nowadays.

 

[Aner]

NO - If you believe Rom 13:8 - this country was created in sin and has been cursed by God ever since - just look at our last president... just look at the failure of the current president besides a few nifty successes, e.g. taking out Osama bin Laden - which the last president totally failed to do.... Just look at the dominance of right wing radio... look at Ab Lincoln - the worst president ever who kept the completely reprobate south with us and look at all the damage they have done including supporting right wing radio and TV and other corrupt, deceitful forms of media.

This country needs to humble itself, repent and resume its submission to the crown of England immediately in order to return to the grace of God.

Of course my statement is only valid if you believe Rom13:8 is the Word of the Almighty God. If on the other hand, you reject Rom 13 as being written by God, then all bets are off - and we can eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow ye die.

 

[Granite]

Yes, I believe they were. They were a set-upon colony ruled by a tyrant.

 

[bybee]

NO - If you believe Rom 13:8 - this country was created in sin and has been cursed by God ever since - just look at our last president... just look at the failure of the current president besides a few nifty successes, e.g. taking out Osama bin Laden - which the last president totally failed to do.... Just look at the dominance of right wing radio... look at Ab Lincoln - the worst president ever who kept the completely reprobate south with us and look at all the damage they have done including supporting right wing radio and TV and other corrupt, deceitful forms of media.

This country needs to humble itself, repent and resume its submission to the crown of England immediately in order to return to the grace of God.

Of course my statement is only valid if you believe Rom13:8 is the Word of the Almighty God. If on the other hand, you reject Rom 13 as being written by God, then all bets are off - and we can eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow ye die.

Doggone it! Someone forgot to lock the door to the ward again....

 

[Skavau]

All colonies of any empire have the right to endeavour towards independence if they are tired of being a subject.

 

[Buzzword]

NO - If you believe Rom 13:8 - this country was created in sin and has been cursed by God ever since - just look at our last president... just look at the failure of the current president besides a few nifty successes, e.g. taking out Osama bin Laden - which the last president totally failed to do.... Just look at the dominance of right wing radio... look at Ab Lincoln - the worst president ever who kept the completely reprobate south with us and look at all the damage they have done including supporting right wing radio and TV and other corrupt, deceitful forms of media.

This country needs to humble itself, repent and resume its submission to the crown of England immediately in order to return to the grace of God.

Of course my statement is only valid if you believe Rom13:8 is the Word of the Almighty God. If on the other hand, you reject Rom 13 as being written by God, then all bets are off - and we can eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow ye die.

Um...the insanity of returning to British Imperial rule aside, how exactly does Romans 13:8

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.

condemn a people breaking away from what they believe to be tyrannical rule?

 

[Nick M]

Oh. Then yes, that justifies a war of independence. :noid:

You don't think people have a right to self defense? I would say you are confused, but maybe the dog poop and hammers is correct.

 

[Tambora]

toldailytopic: Was the United States justified in fighting for their independence from Britain?

Yes.

 

[Samstarrett]

So tomorrow you show us how stupid, weak minded and weak willed you are?

Can't wait.

OK. Explain to me again how it is "weak willed" and "weak minded" to stubbornly disagree with virtually everyone I know and the entire narrative that defines my nation and culture? If I'm wrong it may be stupid, it may be crazy, but even if I'm wrong, I fail to see how it is "weak minded" or "weak willed."

 

[coulter4president]

i have asked myself this Q b4 and sometimes the answer is that Life is more important than ... taxation issues...

I am still w/ that thought, 4 the most part

but geez...

the thought of being under the Brittish... :shocked:

yikes...​

 

[Granite]

Explain to me again how it is "weak willed" and "weak minded" to stubbornly disagree with virtually everyone I know and the entire narrative that defines my nation and culture? If I'm wrong it may be stupid, it may be crazy, but even if I'm wrong, I fail to see how it is "weak minded" or "weak willed."

I see something slavish in a desire for a monarch. And I certainly see a craving for some kind of glorified mommy/daddy figure to lean on and trust to make it all better.

 

[Nick M]

Trad, have you packed for North Korea? Or maybe Venezuela? Their leaders agree with you, and they punish rich people because they are evil. Well, get going.

 

[bybee]

Trad, have you packed for North Korea? Or maybe Venezuela? Their leaders agree with you, and they punish rich people because they are evil. Well, get going.

I'll pitch in some money to help buy him a ticket.

 

[kmoney]

OK. Explain to me again how it is "weak willed" and "weak minded" to stubbornly disagree with virtually everyone I know and the entire narrative that defines my nation and culture? If I'm wrong it may be stupid, it may be crazy, but even if I'm wrong, I fail to see how it is "weak minded" or "weak willed."

Are you still going to post your reasons? I'm interested to see it.



If you are looking from a Christian perspective I think a case can be made that it wasn't justified. If you are skipping the religious side of the issue, I lean toward yes.

 

[Samstarrett]

Are you still going to post your reasons? I'm interested to see it.

Yes, actually, but my browser crashed while I was in the process and I need to reconstruct them. I'll be responding to Rocketman's arguments first.

If you are looking from a Christian perspective...

I have no other. For me politics, should be founded on law should be founded on morality is founded on God. I can pretend to be a secularist or a member of some other religion for the sake of argument, but it generally doesn't shape my opinion.

...I think a case can be made that it wasn't justified. If you are skipping the religious side of the issue, I lean toward yes.

I don't think so, as I'll explain in my next post, to Rocketman. I don't think the British government was outside its rights, I don't think George III was a tyrant, and I don't think anything got better as a result of the Revolution.

 

[Traditio]

You don't think people have a right to self defense? I would say you are confused, but maybe the dog poop and hammers is correct.

Nick_M, I wasn't disagreeing with you. I had the facts on what led up to the war in error. I'd like to remind everyone that my field of specialty is philosophy, not history.

Clearly, if Britain was using military force to put down peaceful protestors/naysayers, then the colonies were probably justified in fighting for their independence.

 

[Samstarrett]

Absolutely, why should any man be subservient to an aristocratic form of government.

Why is an aristocratic form of government worse than any other form of government?

God is the only King I intend to serve.

God set human kings over His people. He called one of them a man after His own heart. Would you rebel against these kings?

Freedom from the tyranny of taxation

You are aware that the tax burden tripled after the revolution, right? And that probably the least-taxed people in the world at the time were those in British North America?

and oppression of government/King

Oppression like telling them they couldn't appropriate more Indian land and had to tolerate Catholics in Quebec?

was the fuel that built the fire which is America.

I guess I'm a bit of a wet blanket then.

Freedom is worth fighting for.

There we agree, sir! And that is one excellent reason why I am a Loyalist.

More on "peaceful protests" &c. tomorrow.

 

[Granite]

A wet blanket, no. Bullheaded, backwards, poorly informed, and borderline pathetic with your crush for the old days? Yeah, I'd say so. I will say that out of the several monarchists here at least you're willing to say more than "I'm a monarchist," silly and as antiquated as the concept is.

 

[Persephone66]

OK. Explain to me again how it is "weak willed" and "weak minded" to stubbornly disagree with virtually everyone I know and the entire narrative that defines my nation and culture? If I'm wrong it may be stupid, it may be crazy, but even if I'm wrong, I fail to see how it is "weak minded" or "weak willed."

Granite pretty well summed it up.

I see something slavish in a desire for a monarch. And I certainly see a craving for some kind of glorified mommy/daddy figure to lean on and trust to make it all better.

And there you have it. Grow up. Be an adult.

Or, if you so badly want to be a subject that is ruled over, give yourself up to a human trafficker. You can tell yourself they were sent by God if it makes you feel better.