toldailytopic: Theistic evolution: best arguments for, or against.

Stripe

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Right, but only if one is stringently attached to a literal 6 day creation. So do you have anything, because that is exactly what we are debating?
The bible says six days and in many other ways explicitly denies evolution as a possibility. That is the best argument against theistic evolution.

If you disagree, feel free to provide your own answer to the OP. :thumb:

But you couldn't find a verse that says so? Not surprising.
No. :)

If you reject the believes held by Christians for thousands of years. Why are you more qualified than the people who founded our faith?
My faith is founded in Jesus Christ. Who are you talking about? :idunno:

Argument by assertion probably won't help you. In fact, as you learned, the "life ex nihilo" belief of YE creationism is directly contradicted by God's word in Genesis. The Earth brought forth life.
On day 6, God created man out of the dust of the Earth.

Perhaps you'd like to find someone who disagrees with you if you are so desperate to have an argument. :thumb:
 

jeffblue101

New member
Can you please clearly demonstrate the difference between good and bad exegesis?
sirach 18:1(Apocrypha) first mistake appealing to apocrypha as Scripture.

what Augustine read: "He who lives forever created all things simultaneously."


what the actual verse was supposed to be: "He who lives forever created all things in common" or modern rendition "He who lives forever created the whole universe"

http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/32/32-4/32-4-pp457-464_JETS.pdf

http://eeraangodalleen.com/eboeke/Augustineandsixdaycreation..pdf
 

jeffblue101

New member
So now you are telling us what God thinks? I guess we don't need God or evidence anymore, because we have Jeffblue101 to tell us all about it. :kookoo:

Its not what I say but what God said He did. God clearly states the He created the universe in 6 days.
 

Stripe

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sirach 18:1(Apocrypha) first mistake appealing to apocrypha as Scripture.

what Augustine read: "He who lives forever created all things simultaneously."


what the actual verse was supposed to be: "He who lives forever created all things in common" or modern rendition "He who lives forever created the whole universe"

http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/32/32-4/32-4-pp457-464_JETS.pdf

http://eeraangodalleen.com/eboeke/Augustineandsixdaycreation..pdf
:mock: The founder of Barbarian's faith.
 

The Barbarian

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Nog writes:
Right, but only if one is stringently attached to a literal 6 day creation. So do you have anything, because that is exactly what we are debating?

The bible says six days and in many other ways explicitly denies evolution as a possibility.

Show us that "explicit" denial. In fact, the Bible explicitly denies the YE doctrine of life ex nihilo, but does not anywhere deny evolution.

Barbarian chuckles:
But you couldn't find a verse that says so? Not surprising.


Barbarian observes:
If you reject the believes held by Christians for thousands of years. Why are you more qualified than the people who founded our faith?

My faith is founded in Jesus Christ.

You say so, but you reject His word in Genesis. Show me where He "explicitly" rejects evolution.

Barbarian observes:
Argument by assertion probably won't help you. In fact, as you learned, the "life ex nihilo" belief of YE creationism is directly contradicted by God's word in Genesis. The Earth brought forth life.

On day 6, God created man out of the dust of the Earth.

In one of the two versions in the Bible. Because they don't agree if you try to force them into a literal history, we know they aren't a literal history.
 

The Barbarian

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sirach 18:1(Apocrypha) first mistake appealing to apocrypha as Scripture.

what Augustine read: "He who lives forever created all things simultaneously."


what the actual verse was supposed to be: "He who lives forever created all things in common" or modern rendition "He who lives forever created the whole universe"

Augustine didn't think God created all things at once. He believed God created the universe at once, and then all things appeared from that initial creation. And that is perfectly consistent with Genesis, which says the same thing. Read "The Literal Meaning of Genesis" and learn.
 

jeffblue101

New member
:mock: The founder of Barbarian's faith.

It's kinda ironic since the founder of his faith believed the earth to be 6000 years old.

more from Augustine:
Chapter 10.—Of the Falseness of the History Which Allots Many Thousand Years to the World’s Past.
Let us, then, omit the conjectures of men who know not what they say, when they speak of the nature and origin of the human race. For some hold the same opinion regarding men that they hold regarding the world itself, that they have always been. Thus Apuleius says when he is describing our race, “Individually they are mortal, but collectively, and as a race, they are immortal.” And when they are asked, how, if the human race has always been, they vindicate the truth of their history, which narrates who were the inventors, and what they invented, and who first instituted the liberal studies and the other arts, and who first inhabited this or that region, and this or that island? they reply,desolated at intervals by fire and flood, that men were greatly reduced in numbers, and from these, again, the population was restored to its former numbers, and that thus there was at intervals a new beginning made, and though those things which had been interrupted and checked by the severe devastations were only renewed, yet they seemed to be originated then; but that man could not exist at all save as produced by man. But they say what they think, not what they know.

They are deceived, too, by those highly mendacious documents which profess to give the history of many thousand years, though, reckoning by the sacred writings, we find that not 6000 years have yet passed....

And therefore the former must receive the greater credit, because it does not exceed the true account of the duration of the world as it is given by our documents, which are truly sacred.
 
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Stripe

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Nog writes:Right, but only if one is stringently attached to a literal 6 day creation. So do you have anything, because that is exactly what we are debating?Show us that "explicit" denial. In fact, the Bible explicitly denies the YE doctrine of life ex nihilo, but does not anywhere deny evolution.Barbarian chuckles:But you couldn't find a verse that says so? Not surprising.Barbarian observes:If you reject the believes held by Christians for thousands of years. Why are you more qualified than the people who founded our faith?You say so, but you reject His word in Genesis. Show me where He "explicitly" rejects evolution.Barbarian observes:Argument by assertion probably won't help you. In fact, as you learned, the "life ex nihilo" belief of YE creationism is directly contradicted by God's word in Genesis. The Earth brought forth life.In one of the two versions in the Bible. Because they don't agree if you try to force them into a literal history, we know they aren't a literal history.
God created the Earth and all in it in six days. You can read that in Genesis, Exodus and Deuteronomy.

You really do need to learn to pay attention, Barbarian. I've only said this like, 900 times. :chuckle:
 

jeffblue101

New member
Augustine didn't think God created all things at once. He believed God created the universe at once, and then all things appeared from that initial creation. And that is perfectly consistent with Genesis, which says the same thing. Read "The Literal Meaning of Genesis" and learn.

apparently, Barbarian doesn't read his own sourced documents.

Chapter heading for The Literal Meaning of Genesis
http://www.andrsib.com/ch/litgen.htm

"Chapter 33 God created all things simultaneously."
:chuckle::chuckle:

but lets keep on reading.
Creation, therefore, did not take place slowly in order that a slow development might be implanted in those things that are slow by nature; nor were the ages established at the plodding pace at which they now pass. Time brings about the development of these creatures according to the laws of their numbers, but there was no passage of time when they received these laws at creation. Otherwise, if we think that, when they were first created by the Word of God, there were the processes of nature with the normal duration of days that we know, those creatures that shoot forth roots and clothe the earth would need not one day but many to germinate beneath the ground, and then a certain number of days, according to their natures, to come forth from the ground; and the creation of vegetation, which Scripture places on one day, namely the third, would have been a gradual process......

In this narrative of creation Holy Scripture has said of the Creator that He completed His works in six days; and elsewhere, without contradicting this, it has been written of the same Creator that He created all things together.[69] It follows, therefore, that He, who created all things together, simultaneously created these six days, or seven, or rather the one day six or seven times repeated.....

In other words, Augustine believed that the same day was repeated 6 times
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
The best arguments of the evolutionists. :chuckle:

Hardly just in relation to evolution but also in regards to a 'young earth' full stop. Why is there no peer reviewed papers that pass scrutiny on these subjects? Surely, if the earth is only a few thousand years old there's gotta be some compelling scientific evidence to support that view? So where is it?

:idunno:
 

Stripe

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Hardly just in relation to evolution but also in regards to a 'young earth' full stop. Why is there no peer reviewed papers that pass scrutiny on these subjects? Surely, if the earth is only a few thousand years old there's gotta be some compelling scientific evidence to support that view? So where is it? :idunno:

There are peer reviewed papers that pass scrutiny on these subjects and we have presented the evidence against theistic evolution. If you have evidence for theistic evolution, feel free to share it. :thumb:
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
There are peer reviewed papers that pass scrutiny on these subjects and we have presented the evidence against theistic evolution. If you have evidence for theistic evolution, feel free to share it. :thumb:

Where? Which journals have these peer reviewed and passed papers appeared in? Links?

I've yet to see you or anyone else provide any scientific evidence against an old earth/evolution. If you could you could make fame and fortune by nullifying what 99.99% of the global scientific community actually hold as established.

The evidence for an old earth/evolution are abundant Stripe, but of course you already know that.....
 

The Barbarian

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creationism = God exists, but isn't powerful enough to produce a world where evolution exists. Stipe talks big, but that evidence he talks about never shows up here.
 

jeffblue101

New member
Where? Which journals have these peer reviewed and passed papers appeared in? Links?

I've yet to see you or anyone else provide any scientific evidence against an old earth/evolution. If you could you could make fame and fortune by nullifying what 99.99% of the global scientific community actually hold as established.

The evidence for an old earth/evolution are abundant Stripe, but of course you already know that.....

The majority of YEC science is not published in secular peer reviewed journals but there are some papers that make through the evolutionary bias of secular journals.

http://creationwiki.org/Peer_review
http://creationwiki.org/Creation_in_secular_journal_(philosophy)
http://creationwiki.org/Creation_in_secular_journal_(biology)
http://creationwiki.org/Creation_in_secular_journal_(cosmology)
http://creationwiki.org/Creation_in_secular_journal_(geology)
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member

Um, 'creationwiki' is hardly an unbiased source itself is it? And why the differentiation between secular and non? Science is science and plenty of Christians go with an old earth/evolution. Do you think there's a conspiracy to suppress compelling evidence for a young earth?
 
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