Have what right?
toldailytopic: The rapture. When will it happen and what will it be like?
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Have what right?
Wise words
You have a message, yet clouded by your own secular thinking. This is not 'Satan's planet'. although Satan may have influence, he does not own us, thus not his.
The first duty of a Christian is to spread the Gospel of Grace. We should care about the earth, peace and human life, but you need to discern what God wants from us, from secularists values that lead away from God, such as the concept of 'animal rights' for that implicitly links us with the beasts.
The secularist movement in man, or human centered, it creates its own morality to replace that which God wants. It uses words like racism, sexism, and the more extreme forms of lesbian separatists and animal rights to convince young people it is all part of the same morality and being man centered, it proclaims man can save himself without God. It goes on to proclaim the God"s plan is inferior to the enlightened humanist.
God wants us to love him above all earthly things; to spread the Gospel and to help other come to the Body of Christ. Do not confuse the desire of God with the desire on man alone.
toldailytopic: The rapture. When will it happen and what will it be like? |
The rapture, when will it happen?
It will happen.
When will happen?
I believe it is like . . .
Secret things and things revealed . . .
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law. Deuteronomy 29:29
As I see it, the rapture, being caught up, the gathering away, etc., is like the mystery of the ages. Like looking through a misty veil knowing only in part, and then having it lifted and then knowing fully, and then "Halleluiah!" I can hardly wait, but I'll have to patiently wait until the day God calls me home either by death, or that grand and glorious gathering away. I believe that there are things that remain secret, hidden, and a mystery until the event or events take place, when the Lord's time piece chimes out the hour has come.
What will it be like?
I believe it will be like nothing we (the redeemed, blood washed, saved, born again) have ever experienced on this earth. There is an old hymn that is title, "Joy Unspeakable, Full Of Glory", the last line of the chorus states, "Oh, the half has never yet been told."
Maybe what Paul wrote expresses it . . .
In the meantime, Jesus said . . .
I do believe we need to ready, I believe the moment we are caught up will come at time we do not expect.
It will happen.
When will happen?
I believe it is like . . .
Secret things and things revealed . . .
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law. Deuteronomy 29:29
As I see it, the rapture, being caught up, the gathering away, etc., is like the mystery of the ages. Like looking through a misty veil knowing only in part, and then having it lifted and then knowing fully, and then "Halleluiah!" I can hardly wait, but I'll have to patiently wait until the day God calls me home either by death, or that grand and glorious gathering away. I believe that there are things that remain secret, hidden, and a mystery until the event or events take place, when the Lord's time piece chimes out the hour has come.
What will it be like?
I believe it will be like nothing we (the redeemed, blood washed, saved, born again) have ever experienced on this earth. There is an old hymn that is title, "Joy Unspeakable, Full Of Glory", the last line of the chorus states, "Oh, the half has never yet been told."
Maybe what Paul wrote expresses it . . .
1 Corinthians 2:9
But as it is written:
"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."
But as it is written:
"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."
In the meantime, Jesus said . . .
Mark 13:37
"And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!"
"And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!"
I do believe we need to ready, I believe the moment we are caught up will come at time we do not expect.
I am so ready to be alive again in heaven. But what about Bob? I had a strange dream a few years back; I was praying to Jesus, asking about how I can love Jesus more than Bob, then in the dream I was in Bob's arms and Jesus came and lifted both of us up.
Can this be the rapture, are we both to see the end? I do not know, it might mean we will die together, or that Jesus understands my loyalty and love for my husband, and it might be just a dream.
Can this be the rapture, are we both to see the end? I do not know, it might mean we will die together, or that Jesus understands my loyalty and love for my husband, and it might be just a dream.
There will be others here at TOL can give a better explanation and teaching on this "Rapture" question than I can.
Not being a Bible scholar, but a Bible student, I do offer this . . . Yes the word "Rapture" is not in the Bible. Maybe it is in some translation that is not on the top ten religious book seller list.
Christian's (I'm one) who believe and except the idea of the "Rapture" refered to First Thessalonians chapter three, verses thirteen to eighteen.
1 Thessalonians. 4:13-18
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Defined: Rapture: Christianity, applied to the second coming of Jesus Christ when true believers are expected to rise up to join Him in heaven.
However, I believe that the gathering away and the Second Coming of Jesus are two seperate events.
Caught up
Caught
Who said Christ will return for the rapture? Christ will only return once. The rapture is where the Christians leave this planet. Two separate events.
Hi Psalmist:
I am familiar with the scriptures that are used by dispensationalists to support the rapture. I was a dispensationalist for 20 years, and used to believe in the rapture myself.
I don’t believe a Christian’s eschatological beliefs have anything to do with whether they are saved or not. Therefore, whether one is a pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, amillennial, premillennial, etc, it is good to know that one day Christ will come for us.
But in the meantime, since this is a theology forum, I enjoy debating/discussing it, as I believe that it’s part of each believers spiritual growth to know what God’s word says about the future.
Thanks
To all the believers who are in agreement that there will one day be a rapture, my advice is to take some time and study when the rapture doctrine first appeared, by whom said it, and the circumstances that existed.
The “rapture” was unheard of less than 200 years ago.
The “rapture” was unheard of less than 200 years ago.
That's not the rapture.
Ok, then tell me which scripture you believe says there will be a rapture.
For the record, many rapture proponets say the 1 Thess 4 passage refers to the rapture.
See the following:
nicholsmom
New member
I have seen no Scriptural reason to believe in any rapture.
You must not have kids. I don't want a world where abortion and euthanasia are the norm. I don't want a world full of pollution or political tyrants. I do not want a world where Christians are persecuted and killed routinely. I don't want a world where women and kids are marginalized in education, vocation, etc. I don't want a world with sex slavery, hunger, poverty, etc.
Thankfully, many great Christians who have changed the destinies of nations and individuals did not have your passive mentality (nor did Jesus and Paul, world-changers through changed lives that affected more than the spirit).
God is Lord of heaven and earth. It is his planet, not Satan's. There is a pocket of rebellion from Satan and his followers and there is spiritual warfare.
You fail to understand the now, but not yet, kingdom teaching of Christ (rule of God).
God is Creator and Satan is usurper. We are to war against him and take back territory, not hand over God's planet to him by default. Victory will not be fully achieved until the new heavens/earth, but this is not excuse to let Satan go unopposed or to call it his planet. 'This is my Father's world...' (hymnist).
He comes for the Church and meets them half way and returns to heaven. When he comes back with the church, he will fully touch down in Jerusalem to rule/reign with us for 1000 years (7 years separate rapture/revelation, two phases of His coming for/with).
Pre-millennialism goes back to the early church. It was only later (Augustine/allegory) that other views waxed and waned. Just because Darby taught something does not mean it was unheard of or that he invented it. We argue from Scripture, not from a best seller by one author.
Eschatology was not the biggest fish to fry in light of Christological, soteriological controversies that preoccupied the church. It is not surprising that as we get closer to His coming that there would be renewed interest (we also have settled other doctrinal issues, so eschatology, Open Theism, dispensationalism, etc. are being explored).
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
"this present evil world" - Apostle Paul
Good luck. Only the reign of the Lord Jesus Christ will substantially and permanently change things.
Our goal isn't to change the world, but to call a people out from among the world.
Why? Aren't you leaving soon? Isn't everything you do ultimately futile given the coming reign of the Beast?
See above. This is exactly the kind of world you think is inevitable, gr.
On and on. You may not want any of it, but you certainly think that's precisely what's in store.
You're talking about polishing brass on the Titanic.
gsweet
New member
Not to derail the conversation, but STP and Tetelestai: Do either of you have a desire to positively change things on this planet? This is not meant to be a derogatory or pessimistic remark, by the way. I'm genuinely curious. If your outlook for the world is one of predetermined death and destruction, and you're just "waiting" it out (so to speak), do you ever find yourself wanting to help those in need? Those who require aid in this world?
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