toldailytopic: The devil made me do it. What role does the devil play in our daily li

[Town Heretic]

No role whatsoever. IMO, it's a copout to blame *the devil* for individual shortcomings and mistakes.

With apologies to Voltaire (no, the other one): if the devil didn't exist it wouldn't be necessary to invent him.

 

[Nick_A]

The Devil gets in the way of understanding. One of our finest mathematicians explains how:

"God exists since mathematics is consistent, and the Devil exists since we cannot prove it." Andre Weil

 

[chair]

The devil is a fictional character, he plays about as much of a role in your life as Edward Cullen.

When people say "the devil made me do it" what they are really saying is that they don't want to take responsibility for their actions.

It's all pretty simple.

"I was born evil at heart" i.e. "original sin" is just as bad.

 

[Todah]

With apologies to Voltaire (no, the other one): if the devil didn't exist it wouldn't be necessary to invent him.

Was that Voltaire? It sounds more like something Yogi Berra would say.

"Nobody goes there anymore, its too crowded."

 

[Todah]

Even though this is yesterday's daily topic, the devil still plays a role in our daily lives. Upon reading the posts in this thread, the most prevalent answer seemed to be that he plays no role. I am not going to use the devil as a cop out. I am taking responsibility for my own actions.

That sounds good and true, but it is actually neglecting the role that he plays. The devil, or rather devils and demons are there to tempt and entice you to follow after your own evil inclinations.

It is fairly easy to say "no" the first and second times. It is the constant pressure that they can apply through people, and the culture, Satan's world system, that causes us to submit to sin, rather than to God.

James 4:1 thru James 4:7

P.S.

Taking responsibility for one's own actions, is not nearly as hard as admitting that we do not have the control that we think that we do. Nor is it anywhere near as difficult as releasing control, and surrendering our lives daily to Him, so that Christ might live in us.

Yes, I think that, dying to self, is the only way to eliminate the devils, participation in our daily lives.



Just as the angels of God rejoice over one sinner who repents.
The fallen angels get their satisfaction from their part, in temptation, and watching us fall.

 

[Rusha]

With apologies to Voltaire (no, the other one): if the devil didn't exist it wouldn't be necessary to invent him.

Well, what about the existence of Dionysus, Odin and Thor? According to your own logic, they exist ... otherwise, it wouldn't be necessary to invent them.

 

[Town Heretic]

Well, what about the existence of Dionysus, Odin and Thor? According to your own logic, they exist ... otherwise, it wouldn't be necessary to invent them.

Man, some people are just natural joke slayers. lain: Way to go right past that and the point and latch onto some theist/atheist struggle. Heck Rusha, why not drag the rotting corpse of the FSM in here while you're at it?

(sighs) If you want to talk about why I'm more concerned with a distorted echo than the actual sound, I suppose I'm game. Or were we just making chit-chat? :think:

 

[grit]

But with all due deference aside and in all due respect of holy men and office, without a doubt of hesitation, the most vile and devilish creatures I have ever met have been certain licensed and ordained church pastors within my own Christian demoniation of the Presbyterian Church in America, one of whom I'm almost convinced was dæmon-possessed, and who remains in full status of acceptance among the denomination.

The PCA has procedures for dealing with these accusations. Have you availed yourself of them? Spoke with the session? Filed a complaint with the presbytery? If not, you are violating your obligation as a PCA member and merely accusing the brethren herein. :squint:

BTW, "daemon" is so old-school. Suggests a unix process running versus a malevolent influence.

AMR

So you characterise it as an accusation, rather than as an observation or opinion, even though no person is named? I count us brothers and dearly so as Reformed, but have you never even self-reflected or self-criticised either concerning yourself, your church, or what you personally view as wrongdoing in others, even as we find of the Apostle Paul, the Apostle Peter, and throughout the Christian Scriptures? I know you have, for I have seen it both here and on other boards, and it doesn't always equate to gossip or backbiting or rebellious complaining or slander or disorderly behaviour. Sometimes it is justly a good thing, even as expressed by Christ Jesus.

Well, not that this is the place or procedure, even of your claim of opinion (notice I didn't say "accusation"), by your own standard, that I might perhaps be violating my obligations. But for our readers, yes, for my part, the PCA procedures have been followed both to the Session and beyond, complete with complaint to presbytery. The PCA simply failed, as sometimes we all do. Though certainly "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 8:1, NASB), surely you would not be so bold as to ascertain that within the PCA, let alone any church claiming the title "Christian", despite our best efforts, there is no false shepherd?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

So you characterise it as an accusation, rather than as an observation or opinion, even though no person is named? I count us brothers and dearly so as Reformed, but have you never even self-reflected or self-criticised either concerning yourself, your church, or what you personally view as wrongdoing in others, even as we find of the Apostle Paul, the Apostle Peter, and throughout the Christian Scriptures? I know you have, for I have seen it both here and on other boards, and it doesn't always equate to gossip or backbiting or rebellious complaining or slander or disorderly behaviour. Sometimes it is justly a good thing, even as expressed by Christ Jesus.

Well, not that this is the place or procedure, even of your claim of opinion (notice I didn't say "accusation"), by your own standard, that I might perhaps be violating my obligations. But for our readers, yes, for my part, the PCA procedures have been followed both to the Session and beyond, complete with complaint to presbytery. The PCA simply failed, as sometimes we all do. Though certainly "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 8:1, NASB), surely you would not be so bold as to ascertain that within the PCA, let alone any church claiming the title "Christian", despite our best efforts, there is no false shepherd?

I have no illusions about the purity of some of those in the pulpit within the PCA or any denomination. What I do rely upon and submit to, as required when becoming a member, are the policies defined in the PCA BCO to root out such men when the need arises. Rather than making a claim that a demon possessed person is in the pulpit in a public forum where it is relatively easy to track down these accusations or to incorrectly arrive at a person's identity (thus spreading rumor), I use the process of the church.

You say you used it and the presbytery ruled against you. Then as a member submit to the authorities of your church as you avowed when joining, cease murmuring, or leave the church. It is really that simple, sir.

AMR

 

[grit]

Rather than making a claim that a demon possessed person is in the pulpit in a public forum where it is relatively easy to track down these accusations or to incorrectly arrive at a person's identity (thus spreading rumor), I use the process of the church.

You say you used it and the presbytery ruled against you. Then as a member submit to the authorities of your church as you avowed when joining, cease murmuring, or leave the church. It is really that simple, sir.

AMR

Well, as long as we can agree that's not what I said in either case, I think we might be getting somewhere, or at least I have hope that we are. I am ordained in the PCA, a founding member, and fully support the standards and my oaths, in humble submission to Christ and His Church, ... sir.
If you care to make further "accusation", please do so by PM, or at least consider abiding by your own recommendations.

In love and in Christ,
grit

 

[Nick M]

I had an orange earlier today, is that what you are talking about?

:thumb:

 

[Rusha]

Man, some people are just natural joke slayers. lain: Way to go right past that and the point and latch onto some theist/atheist struggle. Heck Rusha, why not drag the rotting corpse of the FSM in here while you're at it?

(sighs) If you want to talk about why I'm more concerned with a distorted echo than the actual sound, I suppose I'm game. Or were we just making chit-chat? :think:

But but but, I was serious! Think about this, TH. How would you respond to someone who told you they believed in and worshiped any of the gods I named?

Would you tell them they don't exist or that you don't believe in them or ask them to prove their existence? Or would you just mock their beliefs?

I don't think it is unreasonable for nonbelievers to expect the same kind of proof for believing in a supernatural force (God) that Christians would require to believe in other gods/deities.

Back to the OP ... if one is not convinced or does not believe in the existence of God then believing in the devil would make no sense. The two beliefs, IMO, go hand in hand.

The devil made me do it nothing more than an excuse for people who refuse to acknowledge their own bad deeds or judgment.

 

[Town Heretic]

But but but, I was serious!

I was afraid of that.

Think about this, TH. How would you respond to someone who told you they believed in and worshiped any of the gods I named?

The same way I do about any other approach to God. I'd gently suggest they read Lewis on the true Christian myth and then begin the respectful argument that they're in the zip code but there's a better neighborhood to be had.

I don't think it is unreasonable for nonbelievers to expect the same kind of proof for believing in a supernatural force that non believers would require to believe in other gods/deities.

Great. I'm all for it. God's claim is rather straight forward: you will never perfect yourself. You will consistently do that which upon sober reflection you would not and fail to do that which by your own best estimation of conduct you would do. Further, you cannot reconcile yourself to the perfect and will not be whole absent the relationship you were designed to have, that every other relationship we seek out is a pale thing by compare...it (Christianity) has a rather straight forward litmus test...a full proof means of establishing for the individual through the experiential what couldn't be addressed else.

Back to the OP ... if one is not convinced or does not believe in the existence of God then believing in the devil would make no sense. The two beliefs, IMO, go hand in hand.

For the Christian, certainly. My point was that man will undo himself, absent grace--that the devil is superfluous, while real enough.

The devil made me do it nothing more than an excuse for people who refuse to acknowledge their own bad deeds or judgment.

Oh I believe the that evil isn't wholly within us, that there are entities desirous of our certain ruin that will engage and tempt and assist us in moving further from the truth. Scott Peck, a brilliant fellow (rest his soul) didn't believe in the devil either at first. He changed his mind. You should read "Glimpses of the Devil" and "People of the Lie."

:e4e:

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Well, as long as we can agree that's not what I said in either case, I think we might be getting somewhere, or at least I have hope that we are. I am ordained in the PCA, a founding member, and fully support the standards and my oaths, in humble submission to Christ and His Church, ... sir.
If you care to make further "accusation", please do so by PM, or at least consider abiding by your own recommendations.

In love and in Christ,
grit

Then you know better than to make such a post herein, no? Suggest you start this topic at the "other discussion locale" where you will no doubt receive the same advice I have offered up. Perhaps you have already done so, and having received the same feedback, you decided to take your complaint beyond the bounds, no?. :squint:

AMR

 

[sdgareth]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 21st, 2010 11:37 AM

toldailytopic: The devil made me do it. What role does the devil play in our daily lives?

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.

The devil tempts us daily, to draw us away from Christ. He exists, he is real.

To blame the devil is a cop out, you are responsible and accountable for your actions, and your thoughts.

Live a life in Christ, a life in love with forgiveness, patiences and kindness.

 

[sdgareth]

Regarding temptation in 1 Corinthians chapter 10

Temptation and the answer to it (v. 13)
Along with warning about disqualification from the prize, Paul gives tremendous encouragement: no temptation is unique to us, and God’s faithfulness guarantees strength to counter it successfully (v. 13).

THE COMMONNESS OF TEMPTATION (Mark 1:12–13; 1 John 2:16). Someone else has already gone the road we have to take. Bishop Lightfoot, a Bishop of Durham, travelled in a horse carriage, along a very narrow mountain road in Norway. It got so narrow that there were only inches between the wheels of the carriage and the cliffs on one side, and the precipice on the other. The driver suggested in the end that Lightfoot would be safer to get out and walk. Lightfoot surveyed the road and then said, ‘Other carriages must have taken this road. Drive on!’

GOD’S FAITHFULNESS in our times of temptation. God’s faithfulness (v. 13) is a frequent emphasis of Paul (1 Cor. 1:9; 2 Cor. 1:18; 1 Thes. 5:24) and other New Testament writers (Heb. 10:23; 1 Peter 4:19; 1 John 1:9). It is a truth upon which to meditate for our comfort and encouragement.

GOD’S PROVISION WHEN WE ARE TEMPTED (see also Heb. 2:18). The ‘way out’ is not to escape the trial or temptation but to stand up under it. God uses testings and trials to make us spiritually mature (James 1:2–4).

Prime, D. (2005). Opening up 1 Corinthians (89–90). Leominister: Day One Publications.

 

[grit]

Suggest you start this topic at the "other discussion locale" where you will no doubt receive the same advice I have offered up. Perhaps you have already done so, and having received the same feedback, you decided to take your complaint beyond the bounds, no?. :squint:

AMR

No. I already answered that, brother.