Nang
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toldailytopic: Spiritual Gifts. Do they still exist today?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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God is not time itself (?). Time or duration is an aspect of His personal experience (concept vs thing).
SaulToPaul 2
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You have to ask yourself what did Paul know in part, and what did he prophesy in part. If you get that right, then that which is perfect isn't difficult to figure out.
And, who's face was he referring to when he said "then face to face"?
Krsto
Well-known member
Pay attention this time:
"Paul knew EVERYTHING in part and prophesied in part because he was a human being limited by his human nature but he won't have those limitations in the afterlife when he has come face to face with God in Christ."
Krsto
Well-known member
I might also add FYI that Arianism was the predominant belief in the East while the West was a theological backwater of little import by the time of the Council of Nicea. They sent only a handful of bishops to the proceedings. Even after Nicea no less than 4 councils declared Arianism to be orthodox within the next few years and at one point between Nicea and another council at the end of the century the anti-Arians (concentrated mostly in Egypt) despaired that the whole (Roman) kingdom was following after Arius, long after he was dead and Tertullian despaired of the fact about 125 years prior that the simple masses just couldn't grasp his sophisticated theories and rejected them as polytheism.
So where do you get this idea that the trinitarian view was predominant? Again, wishful thinking on your part and you are promoting a myth.
ThePresbyteers
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SaulToPaul 2
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Let him who has ears to hear, and eyes to see, follow these scriptures.
1 Cor 13
9: For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10: But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11: When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12: For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
This is at the time of Acts 18.
2 Cor 12
1: It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2: I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3: And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; )
4: How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
5: Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
6: For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
This is at the time of Acts 19
Now, after Acts 28
Eph 1
6: To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7: In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8: Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9: Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
17: That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 3
16: That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17: That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18: May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19: And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God.
20: Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Col 1
9: For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
10: That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
How much understanding?
Col 1
26: Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
If you're saved, study the Bible, compare scripture with scripture....and, the Holy Ghost will teach you.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Krsto said:
This is what happens when you don't read the Bible closely, you parrot cliches you have heard about a passage.
1 Cor 13
9: For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10: But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11: When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12: For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Paul compares knowing in part and prophesying in part, understanding as a child, knowing as a child, with looking into a hazy mirror.
Paul compares when that which is perfect is come, becoming a man, with looking into a clear mirror and seeing HIS OWN FACE. Face to face.
When I look into a clear mirror, my face is looking at my own face. I know my own face even as others know how I look. I know even as I am known.
This passage has become a cliche about seeing God "face to face", and the fact that Paul is talking about looking into a mirror becomes ignored.
Krsto
Well-known member
Very good STP. You have exegeted well. When that happens, when we will see ourselves with full revelation and understanding of who we are instead of an approximation shrouded by self-deceit and a host of other human foibles, then we will be mature, because we will be out of the flesh. At that time we will have no need for gifts of the spirit either since we will have a direct line to God with not humanity in the way.
In the afterlife we will be 100% free of all carnality which wants to make us think we are something when we are not. At that time we won't even need our brethren to come alongside us and gently tell us how we are walking in the flesh and missing the mark.
Today, however, we need brothers to sharpen us as iron sharpens iron since we are not in that state of revelation where we know even as we are known and we need gifts of the spirit so God can tell us things that aren't in the bible and heal us as well.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
spiritual functions have not ceased........
spiritual functions have not ceased........
Truly, only when we are in that state of perfection and full knowledge (Spirit-realization/heaven) will we have no need for any spiritual helps, for there, God is all-ready all in all. Paul is quite clear on this, and nowhere teaches a cessation of spiritual gifts! - look at the Church today, it needs the gifts and anointings of the Spirit more than ever (coexisting with the fruit). The Spirit of God is the same yesterday, today and forever.....his dispensations may vary...but his unction never fails to supply where the conduits of faith are open, those willing to be 'yielded vessels'.
I find it curiously inept that some actually believe the Holy Spirit went on vacation, or God is no longer capable of working miracles (of every dimension),...when we've been given the Spirit and all its possessions. Why would one not avail themselves of all God's best, his very PRESENCE? 'According to your faith, let it be unto you' - this also goes for those who have no faith,...they receive accordingly. (measure for measure). Not to get into the subject of 'faith' here, although it can be related. I'd rather avail myself of All of 'God', the fullness of the Holy Spirit, than shrivel in a withdrawn state of disbelief and apathy...when it comes to His Presence. - when you've experienced the 'gifts of the Spirit',...you 'know' they are real.
pj
spiritual functions have not ceased........
Truly, only when we are in that state of perfection and full knowledge (Spirit-realization/heaven) will we have no need for any spiritual helps, for there, God is all-ready all in all. Paul is quite clear on this, and nowhere teaches a cessation of spiritual gifts! - look at the Church today, it needs the gifts and anointings of the Spirit more than ever (coexisting with the fruit). The Spirit of God is the same yesterday, today and forever.....his dispensations may vary...but his unction never fails to supply where the conduits of faith are open, those willing to be 'yielded vessels'.
I find it curiously inept that some actually believe the Holy Spirit went on vacation, or God is no longer capable of working miracles (of every dimension),...when we've been given the Spirit and all its possessions. Why would one not avail themselves of all God's best, his very PRESENCE? 'According to your faith, let it be unto you' - this also goes for those who have no faith,...they receive accordingly. (measure for measure). Not to get into the subject of 'faith' here, although it can be related. I'd rather avail myself of All of 'God', the fullness of the Holy Spirit, than shrivel in a withdrawn state of disbelief and apathy...when it comes to His Presence. - when you've experienced the 'gifts of the Spirit',...you 'know' they are real.
pj
CALVARY\CALVIN
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(Mark10:27)And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. [FONT="Garamond"[/FONT]Even though in the context Jesus is referring to salvation. "All things" must include the gifts of the Spirit! But the key point is thus: "With God" the gift's of His Spirit are always possible if it be His will to do so, but the problem lies within man: for "With men it is impossible! For God is not subject, or a subject of pride as man "indeed" so sadly is! Just as Simon the sorcerer was in Acts when he saw the Power of the Holy Spirit working through the apostles by the laying of their hands upon poeple! [B][FONT="Arial Black"](Acts8:17-19)Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands that the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. So this is deffinately a big reason i believe why God only bestows these gifts on very few, jsut as with the 12 desciples. 12 people out of the entire human race at that time!
Another big reason i believe, is because the lack of faith in these last days'! Not only effecting unbelievers',but God's very own people! (Luke18:8)I tell you that he will avenge them speedily, Neverthrless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?And in 2nd Timothy Paul said, speaking of men in the last days that:(2ndTim.3:5)Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. [/B] [/FONT]
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ThePresbyteers
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What Pentecostals are doing this nonsense?! Give me their names and locations and I will personally slap them.
This chick is acting like a teenager. There is nothing supernatural going on. If anything, it would be demonic.
How does a counterfeit disprove the genuine? People are so ignorant about Pentecostalism.
ThePresbyteers
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