toldailytopic: Should Osama Bin Laden be forgiven?

[graceandpeace]

Well, give him another term in office and you'll probably thinking that, too.

Oh, did you mean Bin Laden?

LOL..yep, I was referring to Bin Laden..Osama, Obama..they get confused..(the name, not the men) in my mind.

YET: it really doesnt matter..we are all in the same boat outside of Christ and that is what I meant...we all must come to realise that outside of Christ we all stand condemned and you cannot add one ounce to being condemned, than what 'condemned' means...so, it is pointless to say one man is more a sinner than another...this was my point.

IN Christ there is no condemnation...and, likewise, there is also no such thing as "I am holier than thou"..we are all equal in God's eyes...for He has imputed the same righteousness to each of us. In the same way we all stand condemned equally, we all stand as righteouss equally.

In this way; no man can say...I am less a sinner than another; or neither can they say I am more righteouss than another. God is good..and JUST in this way.

 

[graceandpeace]

God does forgive everyone unconditionally. That's part of the "good news."

The problem is not everyone believes the good news. Therefore, many are called but few are chosen because only few believe that God's forgiveness is unconditional.

As I said previously, I cannot forgive Bin Laden any more than God already forgave him. Bin Laden apparently rejected God's forgiveness because he loved little (Luke 7:47).

Regardless. He's dead. Don't you get that? :idunno:

Ec 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.




You cannot forgive a dead man, no matter how hard you try.[/QUOTE]

It appeared to me that Damien was saying the same as you..that we must forgive as God has forgiven..what am I missing here?

Also..the yellow:

Didnt Christ forgive us all while we were yet dead men/sinners?

That is my whole point. Being forgiven and being saved is not the same thing.

All of us have been forgiven...it is what the bible calls, 'reconciliation'...and, through Christ's death on a tree..He has reconciled the world unto Himself..has He not?

Now, man must accept it...and, receive salvation.

ALL have been forgiven/reconciled.

At least that is how I see it...so, can we forgive dead men?

Yes; we must...for that is exactly what Christ did for all of us.

 

[elohiym]

Didnt Christ forgive us all while we were yet dead men/sinners?

Just as God forgave Bin Laden. Yes. I already mentioned that earlier in this thread. However, when we were dead in our transgressions, it was the second death spoken of (not yet actualized), not the first death. One must receive God's forgiveness prior to the first death or the second death is actualized.

Bin Laden is still dead in his sins now, and having gone to the grave (first death) his fate is sealed. At this point, forgiveness is eternally irrelevant to Bin Laden.

...so, can we forgive dead men?

Only if forgiveness is something you give yourself exclusively, not others. If forgiveness is something you give others, it necessitates the recipient being conscious instead of dead in the grave where they "know not anything."

 

[Nick M]

Jesus forgave ALL men equally on the cross for their sins...

Of course one has to accept that free gift, and NONE of us can fully say that we KNOW Obama didnt in his last breath. If you think you can, I would remind you that you are not God.

You are a raging moron. Or evil like I think you are. What do you see different from Bin Laden compared to say, the apostle Paul.

Paul was willing to die for what he believed. Bin Laden always had somebody else do it. He knows he was in the wrong.

 

[Nick M]

And since I didn't say it, good job Obama on actually doing what he was authorized by God to do. Now, like a broken clock, if we can just get him to do right twice a day....

 

[graceandpeace]

Just as God forgave Bin Laden. Yes. I already mentioned that earlier in this thread. However, when we were dead in our transgressions, it was the second death spoken of (not yet actualized), not the first death. One must receive God's forgiveness prior to the first death or the second death is actualized.

Bin Laden is still dead in his sins now, and having gone to the grave (first death) his fate is sealed. At this point, forgiveness is eternally irrelevant to Bin Laden.



Only if forgiveness is something you give yourself exclusively, not others. If forgiveness is something you give others, it necessitates the recipient being conscious instead of dead in the grave where they "know not anything."

..and, NO ONE knows what was in his head; before his death..only God.

That is why to me it is not right to say 'it is a fact' that he never repented; etc...and, only remains dead.

All I was saying is that God alone can know that...and, we shouldnt play God.

 

[graceandpeace]

Quote:
Originally Posted by graceandpeace
Jesus forgave ALL men equally on the cross for their sins...

Of course one has to accept that free gift, and NONE of us can fully say that we KNOW Obama didnt in his last breath. If you think you can, I would remind you that you are not God.

Nick:

You are a raging moron. Or evil like I think you are. What do you see different from Bin Laden compared to say, the apostle Paul.

Paul was willing to die for what he believed. Bin Laden always had somebody else do it. He knows he was in the wrong.

Would you point out exactly what it is that I said that you think makes me a moron? I never said anything about him being equal to Paul. I said he was equal to all men...in sin; prior to a man's conversion.


Can you read ?

 

[graceandpeace]

And since I didn't say it, good job Obama on actually doing what he was authorized by God to do. Now, like a broken clock, if we can just get him to do right twice a day....

Do right as a man walking after the flesh or after the spirit?

They are as different as night and day.

I suppose you would think it ok if a christian killed his enemy?

 

[vegascowboy]

Can't you just see all the pastors and priests at various churches this coming Sunday crying and begging their congregation to forgive Bin Laden. "Gee... look how Christian I am... I can even forgive Osama Bin Laden, you should too".

Makes me wanna barf. :vomit:

Funny you should say that. I was flipping through the channels yesterday when I came across that very thing. Some whiny holier-than-thou pastor of some church was telling people that they couldn't be a truly christian Christian unless they forgave Bin Laden in their hearts.

At precisely that moment, one of my dogs threw up on the carpet.

Of course it didn't help that she had munched on some leaves in the back yard that her stomach didn't much care for, but still...the timeing was priceless.

:chuckle:

 

[elohiym]

Paul was willing to die for what he believed. Bin Laden always had somebody else do it. He knows he was in the wrong.

Paul was willing to stand before his enemies and speak and die for what he believed, and Bin Laden was willing to hide from his enemies and murder for what he believed. I think those are the difference.

 

[elohiym]

..and, NO ONE knows what was in his head...

I actually do know what was in his head just before the bullet hit--his brand of Islam.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

 

[Sherman]

Some whiny holier-than-thou pastor of some church was telling people that they couldn't be a truly christian Christian unless they forgave Bin Laden in their hearts.

At precisely that moment, one of my dogs threw up on the carpet.
:chuckle:

:rotfl: I can just see that. Time to start power barfing with all this forgiveness for Osama in the air.

 

[Rusha]

you do realise that sin is sin in the eyes of God and not measured by a stick of rule keeping, dont you?

No ... I do NOT realize that.

How come?

Because I am not a Christian nor am I religious.

Bin Laden was evil, and I have no expectations for anyone (Christian, religious, all others) to forgive this individual.

 

[stevensevert2]

70 * 7... of course. As a matter of fact we are called to love our enemies.

I also find it apalling that those that call themselves christians could celebrate the death of a human created in God's image, no matter how bad and evil they acted.

I would rather have just seen him captured and hid away for the rest of his life.

Proverbs 21:15 When justice is done, it brings joy to the righteous but terror to evildoers.

I don't think that it is wrong to feel joy when you see God administer justice. Had Bin Laden personally wronged us and we sought and took revenge, we would have clearly been acting in contrast of the teachings of our Lord, but instead leaving justice to God to be administered through the authorities in power is exactly what God would have us do.

For they are God's servants working for your good. But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid, for it is not without reason that they bear the sword. Indeed, they are God's servants to administer punishment to anyone who does wrong. - Romans 13:4

 

[vegascowboy]

Saturday night was Obama's appearance at the White House Correspondents' Dinner.

:duh:

:chuckle:

And this just in...Osama's last Tweet:

BRB someone's at the door

lain:

 

[graceandpeace]

I actually do know what was in his head just before the bullet hit--his brand of Islam.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

we all have our form of 'religion' in our head before we come to Christ...I know I did..and, no man will convince me that you know what was in his head upon his death....Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him..in paradise, and the man did not have time to prove his faith...either. Once people learn that faith is proven by God, and not men..you can begin to understand that it is not our judgement that stands...but HIS...and, He alone has a right to judge a man for this reason. It only takes a fraction of a second to say..."Forgive my unbelief, Lord".

Sorry El...I disagree with you on this one.

 

[graceandpeace]

Funny you should say that. I was flipping through the channels yesterday when I came across that very thing. Some whiny holier-than-thou pastor of some church was telling people that they couldn't be a truly christian Christian unless they forgave Bin Laden in their hearts.

At precisely that moment, one of my dogs threw up on the carpet.

Of course it didn't help that she had munched on some leaves in the back yard that her stomach didn't much care for, but still...the timeing was priceless.

:chuckle:

Perhaps if you understood them in their right context, you would not say this.

Did Jesus forgive all sin on the cross, or just yours? AGain...no one is saying that forgiving him, means he is saved....everyone knows he must accept it. How long did it take for you to accept it? Do you believe that a non believer can be on his death bed and yet be saved, upon speaking the words..."Forgive my unbelief", if he spoke it with his last breath?

All this judgement on this thread is heart breaking to me.

Judging men by what you think they say instead of what their right intent would be...is wrong, in my opinion..Did you listen to the whole message and get the facts, that they were speaking of how we are to forgive the sinner his trespasses, because Jesus died in order for men to be forgiven?

Forgiveness is not the same as salvation.

 

[graceandpeace]

Because I am not a Christian nor am I religious.

Bin Laden was evil, and I have no expectations for anyone (Christian, religious, all others) to forgive this individual.

Ok..thanks for making that clear.

 

[Nick M]

Would you point out exactly what it is that I said that you think makes me a moron?

Yeah. All of your posts after you started the thread apologizing to godrulz for coming against his false gospel, which the Bible clearly says to do. And you have a demon, as evidence by the fact that you claim God to you to do something wicked(not judge).

 

[elohiym]

we all have our form of 'religion' in our head before we come to Christ...I know I did..

You did, but repented. He didn't repent by any definition of the word I can fathom.

and, no man will convince me that you know what was in his head upon his death....

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

I'm telling you that I know, and showing you the word of God that proves I can know. Was Jesus pulling their legs? :nono:

Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him..in paradise, and the man did not have time to prove his faith...either.

Luke 23:39-43

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Please don't imply that Bin Laden was like the believer next to Jesus on the cross. He was like the unbeliever on the other side, and we know this by his fruits.

Once people learn that faith is proven by God, and not men..you can begin to understand that it is not our judgement that stands...but HIS...and, He alone has a right to judge a man for this reason.

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

It only takes a fraction of a second to say..."Forgive my unbelief, Lord".

The man said, "I believe!" Then he asked for help overcoming his doubts.

Mark 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

That man was a Jew, whose faith was built (over time) upon the foundation of the prophets and Christ. He cannot be compared with a Muslim who rejected Christ, murdered people, and called for the murder of others in the name of God (1Jo 3:15).

Sorry El...I disagree with you on this one.

Iron sharpens iron, sister.