toldailytopic: Satan: literal or figurative?

[zippy2006]

That would be an expression of the idea of evil. But what would be the actual substance of evil?

Satan, Hitler, etc.

 

[zippy2006]

If literal, where is he?
I mean really.
If God alone represents the highest order of existence, and everything else in creation is on the lower level, then what is the PHYSICAL location of this thing called Satan?

Angels are not physical beings.

 

[keypurr]

Literal.



I also agree that the passages are talking about Satan.

The key is in verse 13. This being has been in the garden of EDEN.
Who are the only beings in the Garden of Eden?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Cracked]

Literal, and spirit.

 

[Sum1sGruj]

Expecting a red, horned guy with a pitchfork?

The greatest trick Satan has played on man is having them believe he isn't there.
The Bible is very clear that he is the Father of Lies. When people think to take him figuritively or cartoonify him in some way, they are falling right into deception.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Angels are not physical beings.

:sigh:

 

[Sum1sGruj]

Angels are not physical beings.

I don't think that's true in it's entirety. It really depends on how one goes about 'physical' in their brand of metaphysics.

I believe that by the perception of the other realm, we are no more physical then how we perceive them. The difference is that they are in a much more 'higher' place, and therefore have the ability to conform to our reality whereas we don't- at least not without the will of God.

 

[Nick M]

Is Satan literally the father of some people then?

No, that is why Jesus called them bastard children.

I believe in a literal Satan.

I do not believe, however, that Satan is responsible for the bad things that happen to us in our lives.

He does not make people die of cancer.

He does not cause car crashes.

He is not the author of our trials and misfortunes.

No, but he does hate God and uses people. In doing such, he creates a false image by telling lies about the gospel and God's nature.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Satan has a "purpose" against those in the Body of Christ...

That purpose is to confuse honest Christians about where in the Holy Scriptures to find the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He wants to prevent honest men and women from rightly dividing the truth.

He wants souls to reject the Gospel message and the Grace of God. He wants people to feel hopeless and that they must do great works in order to earn their salvation instead of accepting God's free gift.

He does not give people lung disease.

He does not give people flat tires.

*
I know what you are saying, it's good. But Satan IS the firstcause of ALL man's woe not by personally inflicting it but in luring mankind away from God. He also inflicts woe indirectly through people who he has decieved.

But God has far and above trumphed over Him and the evil he has brought. Our hope is the resurrection.

[Hi Cowboy :wave:]

 

[sky.]

Satan is literal. He was placed in the garden with Adam and Eve as a protector. Satan (having freewill) turned from God and fell into rebellion.

And while Satan maybe the symbol for evil he is not the "king of evil" nor does he have any special standing or power in hell. Satan does not torture or manage the people who end up in hell.

Where is it in Scripture that you see that Satan was put in charge of the Garden as a protector? the only Scripture I could come up with was this...

Genesis 2:15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.


Genesis 3:24
After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

 

[sky.]

What you fail to recognize is that the anointed cherub had a place in "the garden of God" which he failed at... the Garden of Eden is the second garden... The anointed cherub was never in charge of "protection or covering" he was appointed by God to worship and he failed. God was from the beginning in charge of protection and covering.

 

[Cleekster]

Satan is figurative. evil is an abstract concept we place on our on value judgements which we then use as a means of social control.

 

[sky.]

I don't ever make light of evil! It exists and it uses any means possible to sow discord, discontent, envy, greed, judgmentalism, elitism and not to forget gluttony!

Well at least you know.

 

[Nang]

Satan is literal.

Indeed. I agree.

He was placed in the garden with Adam and Eve as a protector.

It is my belief, Satan was cast out of heaven to the earth as punishment for causing spiritual wars. Revelation 12:7-9

Satan (having freewill) turned from God and fell into rebellion.

Satan's transgression was he left his first created standing with God by rebelling against his God-given duties.

And while Satan maybe the symbol for evil he is not the "king of evil" nor does he have any special standing or power in hell. Satan does not torture or manage the people who end up in hell.

Agreed. Satan symbolically represents the epitome of the sin of idolatry, and he lured Adam into idolatry against the commands that Adam should worship God alone . . . but he has no powers over heaven or hell.

Only God determines the purposes of both heaven or hell as either destiny is ordained unto to all His creatures, and it has been decreed, ordained, and prophetically revealed that Satan will surely share the torments of hell along with reprobate humans, (Revelation 20:10-14) who, due to of inheriting the fallen and corrupted nature of Adam, all their lives rebelled against their created purpose/accountability, and responsibilities before God.

Nang

 

[Nang]

But Satan IS the firstcause of ALL man's woe not by personally inflicting it but in luring mankind away from God.

Sorry, but the first cause of sin and death is placed by God upon Adam, not Satan. (Romans 5:12)

Satan can only tempt. Satan has no causal powers at all. Only God and men created in His image have powers of cause and effect.

Nang

 

[freelight]

a 'figure'

a 'figure'

Those verses are solely regarding the King of Tyre. There is no evidence to prove they relate in any way to a being called Satan. It's a completely baseless assumption. The claim those verses somehow are describing a being called Satan is a doctrine created by men.

In support of your observation above see this post -

The skinny on Satan

"Lucifer" was never a person's name. The word means "light bearer" and was referring solely to the King of Babylon, a man. It has nothing to do with a being called Satan.

We treat the Lucifer issue below -

Who or What is Lucifer?

While the name or title can be applied to a person serving as a 'light-bearer', in some narratives Lucifer is the name for an actual fallen angel or son of God, yet this personage has been associated or confused with also being called 'Satan' or 'the devil'...along with all the mythology or doctrinal assumptions associated with these entities.

To address the thread-title question, I'd say both 'literal' and 'figurative'....depending on interpretation and context.



pj

 

[chair]

The Christian "Satan" doesn't exist. But then again, I think the same of the Christian man-god.

A more interesting question is: Does Christianity need a "Satan"?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Satan is figurative. evil is an abstract concept we place on our on value judgements which we then use as a means of social control.

*
In the day that you face a man with a knife [and he means to use it] you will know that evil is not abstract.

The devil has come to kill to steal and destroy mankind...that is personal, the evil in a person.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Sorry, but the first cause of sin and death is placed by God upon Adam, not Satan. (Romans 5:12)

Satan can only tempt. Satan has no causal powers at all. Only God and men created in His image have powers of cause and effect.

Nang

Not so, if that were true then you would have to say that sin also was placed by God....for sin and death are twins and death IS the woe that comes upon man. Just as God forbade sin so also He is opposed to the evil that ensues from sin. If you old fashioned Puritans could once grasp this [and I am a lover of Spurgeon] you would finally understand that God hates sickness, poverty and death just as He hates sin.

Satan can only tempt...but that is all he DID do, the cause of ALL man's woe is that Adam did yield to temptation. So the twin cause of ALL man's woe is Satan and man.....never God, never, never.

The idea that some people have [you may not realise it but your doctrine comes from it] that God placed the tree in the garden in order to test, or tempt [it is the same word] Adam is false....James says that God never tempts nor can He be tempted. He is Father of lights, the source of all that is good.

Two things show this truth, if you won't listen to the first, you should surely listen to the second. First....God placed the man in a garden of abundance, full of everything pleasant and beautiful...there was no sickness or death in the garden. Second....Jesus who is the very Person of God and the personification of God's will "I came not to do Mine own will but the will of Him who sent Me" ALWAYS healed every sick person who came with faith.

You say He has changed, so surrendering the doctrine of immutability, I say He has not changed...man has changed, the church has changed.

Calvin told you that He bore your sins on the tree and you rejoiced and believed him.

When are you going to believe Matthew that He bore your sicknesses? it has to come by personal revelation just the same as the first revelation.

But the scripture is one, side by side. It is time to go beyond the doctrines [good they may be] of men and dig out more from the scripture.

God is grieved by the impenetrable hardness of men's heart, they fail to see His mercy and His glory.