toldailytopic: Please pray for...

[aSeattleConserv]

The loved ones and friends...
http://lakewood.komonews.com/

 

[Nang]

Yet according to you ghost is doing exactly as God has decreed. Therefore what does that say about God? :idunno:

That is exactly the argument an unrepentant homosexual offered to us in the name of Jesus Christ.

That God had ordained and predestined him to be queer, so he was functioning as a homosexual according to the will of God, and because of the grace of God, was exempt from condemnation for his perversions.

I do not believe ghost can excuse his unrepentant moral lapses upon God, any more than that unrepentant queer who tried to claim to be a son of God.

Do you?

Nang

 

[CabinetMaker]

That is exactly the argument an unrepentant homosexual offered to us in the name of Jesus Christ.

That God had ordained and predestined him to be queer, so he was functioning as a homosexual according to the will of God, and because of the grace of God, was exempt from condemnation for his perversions.

I do not believe ghost can excuse his unrepentant moral lapses upon God, any more than that unrepentant queer who tried to claim to be a son of God.

Do you?

Nang

But you didn't answer Knight's question, you side stepped it.

Ghost or a homosexual are doing exactly what God preordained them to do exactly the way God preordained them to do it.

What does that say about God?

 

[Nang]

But you didn't answer Knight's question, you side stepped it.

Ghost or a homosexual are doing exactly what God preordained them to do exactly the way God preordained them to do it.

What does that say about God?

I did not side step Knight's question.

I have no doubt that God has ordained ghost's behavior.

But the question (or blame) for ghost's behavior is not put upon God. The blame remains on the offender who has been granted secondary moral agency by His Creator.

Any theology that refuses divine sovereignty OR human accountability, will always produce a false "religion."

Nang

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I have no doubt that God has ordained ghost's behavior.

But the question (or blame) for ghost's behavior is not put upon God.

:rotfl:

:mock: Calvinists.

 

[Ktoyou]

I pray for those I love and all the younger people who will have to somehow contend with a big mess. I count myself lucky, sick or not.

 

[Nang]

:rotfl:

:mock: Calvinists.

Since when do you omit portions of posts in order to mock?

tsk . . tsk . . .



Nang

 

[Ktoyou]

I also pray that this fighting, which is nowhere stops. Nang, please do not get banned. I have put work into starting our forum and it is not being used enough.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Since when do you omit portions of posts in order to mock?

tsk . . tsk . . .



Nang

Nothing I omitted changed what you said. Do you disagree with my paraphrase? If so... in what way?

 

[Nang]

Nothing I omitted changed what you said. Do you disagree with my paraphrase? If so... in what way?

I will only answer your questions, if and after you answer mine, and you have not answered this:

I do not believe ghost can excuse his unrepentant moral lapses upon God, any more than that unrepentant queer who tried to claim to be a son of God.

Do you?

Do you?

Nang

 

[Nang]

I also pray that this fighting, which is nowhere stops. Nang, please do not get banned. I have put work into starting our forum and it is not being used enough.

My being banned is not in my control.

And I am not fighting.

I am merely defending myself against personal insults and unwarranted attacks.

Nang

 

[Ktoyou]

Goodnight.

 

[Ktoyou]

My being banned is not in my control.

And I am not fighting.

I am merely defending myself against personal insults and unwarranted attacks.

Nang

Why not do some of that in our group? Can we not discuss these matters there?
again, goodnight

 

[Nang]

Why not do some of that in our group? Can we not discuss these matters there?
again, goodnight

I am not being personally attacked by the ladies, K . . .

I am not suffering bans at the hand of the ladies, K . . .

I will be happy to discuss these matters with the ladies on that forum, if and when it is determined and guaranteed, that I can post elsewhere on TOL without being insulted and called names because I happen to be 70 years old and a female Calvinist.

Nang

 

[Psalmist]

toldailytopic: Please pray for...​

...Our grandson Toby (14), he has started having seizures since early this month, and he has had several. We'll not know for a few days what has brought this on.​

 

[CabinetMaker]

I did not side step Knight's question.

I have no doubt that God has ordained ghost's behavior.

But the question (or blame) for ghost's behavior is not put upon God. The blame remains on the offender who has been granted secondary moral agency by His Creator.

Any theology that refuses divine sovereignty OR human accountability, will always produce a false "religion."

Nang

Given that you believe the following:
I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]

Can you please explain to me how God is not responsible for the evil things that He decreed? Given that God unchangably ordained all that will ever happen, can there be a "secondary moral agency" that exists apart from God's eternal decree and control?

 

[Nydhogg]

Yup. It's called the Holy Cop-Out.

 

[Nang]

=CabinetMaker;2492595]Given that you believe the following:
I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]

Can you please explain to me how God is not responsible for the evil things that He decreed?

Two-part answer:

God places all responsibility for the knowledge of evil and the cause of death upon Adam. Romans 5:12 A Godly decree that divinely orders all events, according to omniscience and foreknowledge, does not equate with causing all events.

That is because, God being the first cause of all things, caused the creation of man made in His image. Which means Adam was created a sentient being, under law and commands, and was gifted with a secondary moral agency and ability to also cause and effect.

God caused Adam. Adam caused evil and death.

Given that God unchangably ordained all that will ever happen, can there be a "secondary moral agency" that exists apart from God's eternal decree and control?

The moral agency of man does not exist apart from God's eternal decree or control. God granted man the ability and will to volitionally cause and effect, but God also, through commands (Covenant of Works), made Adam responsible and accountable to submit his will to God's sovereign will and word.

God remains sovereign over the willful actions of men, even when this gift and responsibility was abused and exercised wrongly by Adam.

God's decrees are purposed to bring good out of evil. God not only decreed that Adam, as a moral but limited agent, would inevitably manifest his finite capacities and potential to sin, but God also decreed the provision of the last Adam who would remedy the fall by grace alone.

Grace bestowed by God brings God the greatest glory.

 

[WandererInFog]

Given that you believe the following:
I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]

Can you please explain to me how God is not responsible for the evil things that He decreed? Given that God unchangably ordained all that will ever happen, can there be a "secondary moral agency" that exists apart from God's eternal decree and control?

One the many reasons why the Westminster Confession is the best of the Calvinist creeds is because of the the care with which the authors chose their specific wording. Within the Westminster Confession the terms ordain and predestine are not simply synonyms, but rather refer to two separate though closely related concepts.

When it speaks of that which God has ordained, it refers to all things which have occurred as a result of God's initial creative act. Which is, of course, everything in creation. It does not however mean that each of those things has occurred as the result of special, direct intervention by God. When it is speaking of that narrowerer subset of things, the Confession instead using the term predestine.

Both are then spoken of as having been decreed by God, because God, being all knowing, knew precisely how history would unfold when He created both those things which would occur as the result of his action and those which would occur as a result of his inaction.

None this makes God the "author of sin" because God will not intervene in such a way as to override a man's will and force him to sin, though he may certainly allow men to decide to sin if it serves to advance His ultimate purposes.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Two-part answer:

God places all responsibility for the knowledge of evil and the cause of death upon Adam. Romans 5:12 A Godly decree that divinely orders all events, according to omniscience and foreknowledge, does not equate with causing all events.

That is because, God being the first cause of all things, caused the creation of man made in His image. Which means Adam was created a sentient being, under law and commands, and was gifted with a secondary moral agency and ability to also cause and effect.

God caused Adam. Adam caused evil and death.





The moral agency of man does not exist apart from God's eternal decree or control. God granted man the ability and will to volitionally cause and effect, but God also, through commands (Covenant of Works), made Adam responsible and accountable to submit his will to God's sovereign will and word.

God remains sovereign over the willful actions of men, even when this gift and responsibility was abused and exercised wrongly by Adam.

God's decrees are purposed to bring good out of evil. God not only decreed that Adam, as a moral but limited agent, would inevitably manifest his finite capacities and potential to sin, but God also decreed the provision of the last Adam who would remedy the fall by grace alone.

Grace bestowed by God brings God the greatest glory.

One the many reasons why the Westminster Confession is the best of the Calvinist creeds is because of the the care with which the authors chose their specific wording. Within the Westminster Confession the terms ordain and predestine are not simply synonyms, but rather refer to two separate though closely related concepts.

When it speaks of that which God has ordained, it refers to all things which have occurred as a result of God's initial creative act. Which is, of course, everything in creation. It does not however mean that each of those things has occurred as the result of special, direct intervention by God. When it is speaking of that narrowerer subset of things, the Confession instead using the term predestine.

Both are then spoken of as having been decreed by God, because God, being all knowing, knew precisely how history would unfold when He created both those things which would occur as the result of his action and those which would occur as a result of his inaction.

None this makes God the "author of sin" because God will not intervene in such a way as to override a man's will and force him to sin, though he may certainly allow men to decide to sin if it serves to advance His ultimate purposes.

In both of these responses I see a description of an independent and free will separate from God's will evidenced by the actions of an individual persons. Is that what you intended to convey?