toldailytopic: Overpopulation. Is the world really over populated as some assert?

[nicholsmom]

I think people are confusing land-distribution with over population. Earth is a large planet (maybe not on a cosmic scale, but for our purpose it is). There's a lot of space to inhabit, and much of it isn't fully inhabited. The issue with overpopulation isn't crowding, it's resources. As was stated numerous times before, resources are diminishing (and will inevitably become scarce). So I don't think we currently face too much over population, but in 100-150 years, the issue will most likely be dire.

Which resources? Land mass manages the food source issue - where there is land, there can be crops and livestock. And all others can be had by human innovation. Where's the fire?

 

[Flipper]

I certainly did. Perhaps you missed the piont of that.

It seemed at odds with the sarcastic tone I read into the following:

Yeah, that's what the doomsayers have been saying for hundreds of years now. I wonder when the human race will finally wake up and listen to them?

Maybe you weren't being sarcastic?

 

[DocJohnson]

It seemed at odds with the sarcastic tone I read into the following:

Maybe you weren't being sarcastic?

Well, considering hundreds of millions of people believe what you describe is going to happen will indeed happen, more people should be agreeing with you, don't you think?

Maybe not with your stats... but in general.

 

[The Berean]

I like to keep an eye on alternative technologies and management plans of various kinds because these are our only bail-out options.

There are some promising ideas, but they're chickens that shouldn't be counted until they're brought into industrialized production.

Here are a few articles on urban farming.

Urban farming

NY Magazine article

Vertical Farm Project

And some ideas for future power generation.

Japan Eyes Space Solar Power

A Canadian company General Fusion is working on a revolutionary, and relatively cheap, nuclear fusion reactor.

Popular Science article on General Fusion.

Then there is the Lift Port project, a 23,000 mile long space elevator that may be ready by the early 2030's. Potentially much of mankind's "dirty" manufacturing could be moved off the Earth and onto orbiting space stations.

 

[nicholsmom]

From the USDA.

Thanks for the source. So we have the global, rather than just US grain experiencing increased prices, and ethanol as a big piece of the puzzle. So we can see that when government meddles, we don't get any good from it - well, that's what I see, even if we don't.

And why are we producing more ethanol? It's part of the attempt to reduce energy dependence on fossil fuels which, as all the major energy producers agree, are running out in the sense that demand will soon be outstripping supply.

No, it's an attempt to look like we are doing something, when in reality, we are failing to do our homework to find out ahead of spending the money, whether it will really do any good or rather do harm. Just like politicians, wouldn't you say?

As I mentioned, nuclear power can answer most of our energy needs, so why are we not pursuing that? :think: More politics, I'm guessing.

Food Prices Are Soaring But Farmers Aren't Getting Any Richer - Chief Engineer Magazine

Yep. More governmental intervention getting in the way of the free market. Get out of the way and watch the farmers produce - well the smart ones will produce, and the rest will go to work in a factory, or for some productive farmer.

Did you guys forget so soon what it was like when gas was at $120-130 a barrel?

Not I. That is why we have built our home to consume very little energy for its size, and why we continue to make improvements. That is why we raise goats, turkeys, ducks, chickens and rabbits. That is why we have sufficient land to grow plenty of veggies. That is why we have guns. That is why we ... well, you get the idea.

All of these things are mere bumps in the road. They are hurdles for humanity to leap. They are not evidence of overpopulation - we needn't kill off parts of the population in order to have enough oil for the rest, nor prevent the production of children in order to power MRIs for those already conceived.

It is quite a leap to go from resource challenges to overpopulation. Overpopulation is not the cause of the resource challenges (dare you to prove it), nor is de-population the answer to them.

 

[Lucky]

So we need to get back to pre-Industrial life? I'm down.

:neck: each: :baby::baby::baby::baby::baby::baby:
:sheep: :dog: :cow: :chicken::chicken::chicken::chicken::chicken: :turkey::turkey::turkey:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

So we need to get back to pre-Industrial life? I'm down.

:neck: each: :baby::baby::baby::baby::baby::baby:
:sheep: :dog: :cow: :chicken::chicken::chicken::chicken::chicken: :turkey::turkey::turkey:

:ha: :thumb:

 

[DocJohnson]

So we need to get back to pre-Industrial life? I'm down.

Heck, sometimes I feel like I was born in the wrong century. :mmph:

 

[Flipper]

Thanks for the source. So we have the global, rather than just US grain experiencing increased prices, and ethanol as a big piece of the puzzle. So we can see that when government meddles, we don't get any good from it - well, that's what I see, even if we don't.
No, it's an attempt to look like we are doing something, when in reality, we are failing to do our homework to find out ahead of spending the money, whether it will really do any good or rather do harm. Just like politicians, wouldn't you say?

As I mentioned, nuclear power can answer most of our energy needs, so why are we not pursuing that? :think: More politics, I'm guessing.
Yep. More governmental intervention getting in the way of the free market. Get out of the way and watch the farmers produce - well the smart ones will produce, and the rest will go to work in a factory, or for some productive farmer.

I am all about upping the production of nuclear power. Not to mention drilling and mining the heck out of any state that produces a fossil fuel, just to keep the lights on.

By the way, there absolutely has to be to be some government involvement in the production of nuclear power. Unless you're fine with anyone mining and selling uranium to whoever they like, of course. Or substandard reactors being developed.

Not I. That is why we have built our home to consume very little energy for its size, and why we continue to make improvements. That is why we raise goats, turkeys, ducks, chickens and rabbits. That is why we have sufficient land to grow plenty of veggies. That is why we have guns. That is why we ... well, you get the idea.

These are all admirable things to be doing. They also imply that you're not quite as absolute on the question of over extending on resources as your previous comments seemed to imply.

All of these things are mere bumps in the road. They are hurdles for humanity to leap. They are not evidence of overpopulation - we needn't kill off parts of the population in order to have enough oil for the rest, nor prevent the production of children in order to power MRIs for those already conceived.

It is quite a leap to go from resource challenges to overpopulation. Overpopulation is not the cause of the resource challenges (dare you to prove it), nor is de-population the answer to them.[/QUOTE]

I don't think depopulation is ever going to be a deliberate strategy outside of warfare. Nevertheless, the signs are that it will eventually occur whatever we may think of it. Malthusian population dynamics may not be wrong after all, only deferred.

 

[Flipper]

So we need to get back to pre-Industrial life? I'm down.

:neck: each: :baby::baby::baby::baby::baby::baby:
:sheep: :dog: :cow: :chicken::chicken::chicken::chicken::chicken: :turkey::turkey::turkey:

Pre-industrial life =/ 6 billion humans

 

[DocJohnson]

Pre-industrial life =/ 6 billion humans

Wait... are you suggesting that the earth's population explosion is a direct result of technology and industrialization?

 

[yokefellow]

This reminds me of Greg Mortenson's mission in the book Three Cups of Tea. He focuses on building schools in the Middle East, but focuses even more on the education of girls. Here's a little explanation I found to further explain:

Several global studies show that sending girls to school significantly decreases infant and maternal mortality rates, helps stabilize population growth, and improves the quality of health and life for everyone in the community. And, Mortenson emphasizes, educated mothers are less likely to condone their sons’ joining terrorist groups. He sees a direct link between building schools in an unstable part of the world and security at home.

 

[MaryContrary]

So we need to get back to pre-Industrial life? I'm down.

:neck: each: :baby::baby::baby::baby::baby::baby:
:sheep: :dog: :cow: :chicken::chicken::chicken::chicken::chicken: :turkey::turkey::turkey:

Wait... are you suggesting that the earth's population explosion is a direct result of technology and industrialization?

It's ironic that the pre-Industrial life stuff is pretty much what we're designed for. We've suffered terribly individually from having abandoned that lifestyle. Yet at the same time humanity in general has prospered outrageously from the change. Go figure.

 

[DocJohnson]

It's ironic that the pre-Industrial life stuff is pretty much what we're designed for. We've suffered terribly individually from having abandoned that lifestyle. Yet at the same time humanity in general has prospered outrageously from the change. Go figure.

That's beyond irony... that's pure paradox.

 

[lowerlevel]

In college I was an environmental resource major with a concentration in community sustainability, I heard this crap all the time. (btw what a waste of 4 years!)
My opinion:
we waste resources at an incredible rate (but free market will (and already does) regulate this as long as the markets stay in place)
There is a myriad of technology already out there that can substantially increase yield and sustainability of current resources. there is just no motive to use it yet... its not profitable.
Humans are extremely adaptable. Put the normal american family of 4 in a house with a 1.5 KW solar array, a 1000 gallon water tank, a couple other little nic naks, and they will get used to the limited energy in a matter of weeks. I have seen it over and over getting American missionaries set up off grid in the bush.

 

[Town Heretic]

I think the ratio of morons to intelligent people is dramatically out of whack, given what passes for genius these days, but that's not really the point of inquiry here, is it...

Okay, here is a link that's interesting and on topic. The world at a glance, if you will.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

In college I was an environmental resource major with a concentration in community sustainability, I heard this crap all the time. (btw what a waste of 4 years!)
My opinion:
we waste resources at an incredible rate (but free market will (and already does) regulate this as long as the markets stay in place)
There is a myriad of technology already out there that can substantially increase yield and sustainability of current resources. there is just no motive to use it yet... its not profitable.
Humans are extremely adaptable. Put the normal american family of 4 in a house with a 1.5 KW solar array, a 1000 gallon water tank, a couple other little nic naks, and they will get used to the limited energy in a matter of weeks. I have seen it over and over getting American missionaries set up off grid in the bush.

I think that's a great point. Essentially what you are saying is that the people that promote the overpopulation myth are promoting laziness, i.e., control the population by reducing it instead of having faith in the human spirit and it's ability to adapt, invent, and be creative when it comes to growth.

 

[lowerlevel]

This reminds me of Greg Mortenson's mission in the book Three Cups of Tea. He focuses on building schools in the Middle East, but focuses even more on the education of girls. Here's a little explanation I found to further explain:

i got about 3/4 through that book a yea ago and still havent finished it. I am a fan of what he is trying to do, but i think the key to his success was relationship building. So many policies and ideas we have today are intended and designed to be shoved down people's throats.
unfortunately "grass roots" isnt the answer to everything.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I think the ratio of morons to intelligent people is dramatically out of whack, given what passes for genius these days, but that's not really the point of inquiry here, is it...

Okay, here is a link that's interesting and on topic. The world at a glance, if you will.

That would be way cooler if my mouse clicks would actually kill people.

 

[MaryContrary]

I think the ratio of morons to intelligent people is dramatically out of whack, given what passes for genius these days, but that's not really the point of inquiry here, is it...

Okay, here is a link that's interesting and on topic. The world at a glance, if you will.

Hey, look! The USA is winning!

Woohoo! Go team America! :banana: