toldailytopic: Is there hope for all people?

[Nick M]

I am reformating for the sake of taking your malice from the answer, and trying to answer the simple question.

IF I had the power, I would permanently remove ALL criminals from society that committed acts which I consider unforgivable.

I didn't ask about those that are evil, I asked about those that are not evil, yet say they don't want anything to do with him, even if he exists.

What about people that don't murder or otherwise try to harm their fellow brother, yet want nothing to do with God, "even if he exists"?

Would you remove good people that don't want to be with you?

 

[Rusha]

I am reformating for the sake of taking your malice from the answer, and trying to answer the simple question.

*shrug* There was no malice.

I didn't ask about those that are evil, I asked about those that are not evil, yet say they don't want anything to do with him, even if he exists.

There is nothing wrong with not believing in a deity that has never been proven to exist.

Would you remove good people that don't want to be with you?

No

 

[Ktoyou]

What if the truly repented? What if they had a genuine change of heart and even wanted the state to execute them to pay for their crime. What if you knew for a fact that they were sincere?

Don't you think a loving God would recognize their sincerity and have mercy on them?

Put as such, I would be inclined to think so. The problem is I am doubtful that persons of such atrocity would ever have faith in Christ. They might come to feel sorry and repent for their deeds, but does repenting alone get one saved?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

It's not a matter of questioning God's ability to recognize their sincerity, but rather the person's ability to actually be repentant. IMO, people such as Jeffrey Dahmer, Susan Smith and Richard Allen Davis are not/were not capable of being truly repentant for their crimes.

Why are/were they not capable of repentance?

 

[Nang]

Why are/were they not capable of repentance?

Because repentance is a gift of God that comes by His grace alone, just like the gift of faith is a gift that comes by God's grace alone.

No grace = no repentance.

No grace = no faith.

Totally depraved sinners are incapable of repenting of their sins apart from the enabling grace of God.

Nang

 

[Rusha]

Why are/were they not capable of repentance?

Because it takes a *special kind of evil* to commit the type of crimes they committed. IMO, someone who is capable of committing such acts do so because they have no conscience.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Because it takes a *special kind of evil* to commit the type of crimes they committed. IMO, someone who is capable of committing such acts do so because they have no conscience.

It seems to me that people can and do change. I agree those folks who have committed the really awful stuff seem less likely to be truly repentant but I don't agree with you that they are incapable.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Because repentance is a gift of God that comes by His grace alone, just like the gift of faith is a gift that comes by God's grace alone.

God says He wants all men (not just some) to come to repentance.

2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

But not all men repent, therefore we must have the ability to thwart God's desire that we repent.

No grace = no repentance.

No grace = no faith.

Totally depraved sinners are incapable of repenting of their sins apart from the enabling grace of God.

You have the gospel exactly..... backwards that is.

 

[Lighthouse]

There is only no hope for one if they are already dead.

It's not a matter of questioning God's ability to recognize their sincerity, but rather the person's ability to actually be repentant. IMO, people such as Jeffrey Dahmer, Susan Smith and Richard Allen Davis are not/were not capable of being truly repentant for their crimes.

Dahmer claimed to have repented.

 

[Nang]

God says He wants all men (not just some) to come to repentance.

God wills and commands all men to repent.

But because of the fall of Adam and the inheritance of corrupted sinful natures, no man is inclined or willing to repent.

A sinner must be changed by the power of the Holy Spirit (regenerated to new life) before he can repent . . . and then that resultant repentance is credited to the grace of God.

2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

You are reiterating the Law. The Law says man must repent in order to avoid death. Right?

My message is one of grace. . . and II Peter 3:9 speaks strictly to God not allowing any of His chosen elect in Christ to perish under the Law. These are guaranteed salvation, no matter how many years it takes.

But not all men repent,

Right. In fact, no man would repent, unless the grace and power of God enables him to do so.

therefore we must have the ability to thwart God's desire that we repent.
You have the gospel exactly..... backwards that is.

It is not a "gospel" message to tell people that they can resist the power and will of God.

The gospel declares that God's will be done and that His grace to save is irresistible.

God is sovereign over salvation.

You are telling people that sinners are sovereign and able to determine their own salvation, according to their willful choices, rather than resting upon the willful choices of God.

You are preaching man is his own god. I proclaim God alone determines who will be saved or not.

So who has the true gospel message and who proclaims the greater God?

Nang

 

[Lucky]

I am definitely much more hopeful now then ever before that anyone can be saved. It doesn't come from the humanistic idea that people are basically good. It comes from knowing that God is all-good, powerful enough, and acting right now in the very present to radically transform anyone at any point in life with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Because of that, I'm learning to make friends with everyone. It's an impossible goal, of course, but the effort is worthwhile I think. I've already had someone ask why I'm talking to so-and-so since they *gasp* cuss a lot, but so-and-so will never change if no one ever points them to God, so I'm willing to put my reputation on the line a little bit. As a single man I think I have more freedom than most to do that sort of thing.

 

[Nang]

I am definitely much more hopeful now then ever before that anyone can be saved. It doesn't come from the humanistic idea that people are basically good.

Right!

Anyone can be saved, according to the grace of God, who alone can overcome sin, death, and the devil . . .feats which no sinner can achieve no matter how good he tries to be.

It comes from knowing that God is all-good, powerful enough, and acting right now in the very present to radically transform anyone at any point in life with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Amen!

Because of that, I'm learning to make friends with everyone. It's an impossible goal, of course, but the effort is worthwhile I think. I've already had someone ask why I'm talking to so-and-so since they *gasp* cuss a lot, but so-and-so will never change if no one ever points them to God, so I'm willing to put my reputation on the line a little bit. As a single man I think I have more freedom than most to do that sort of thing.

Good for you, Lucky.

We must treat all sinners as potential brothers in the Lord, for we do not know who God might save tomorrow through the power of His grace and mercy!

That is exactly why Jesus Christ commanded us to love our enemies . .for an unbelieving enemy today might be our brethren in the Lord tomorrow, if God so wills to save and bring that sinner to genuine repentance.



Nang

 

[ghost]

Anyone can be saved, according to the grace of God, who alone can overcome sin, death, and the devil . . .feats which no sinner can achieve no matter how good he tries to be.

Anyone? You mean "anyone" who God has predestined to be saved, right?

If God predestines Lucky to have a wife and foreordains them to have 10 children, you would tell Lucky that all 10 of them can be saved, correct? Or they can all be saved IF God predestines them to be saved? Therefore, no matter how much Lucky would love to have one of his daughters know Jesus, if God did not predestine it, she is not so lucky, is she?

 

[Nang]

Anyone? You mean "anyone" who God has predestined to be saved, right?

If God predestines Lucky to have a wife and foreordains them to have 10 children, you would tell Lucky that all 10 of them can be saved, correct? Or they can all be saved IF God predestines them to be saved? Therefore, no matter how much Lucky would love to have one of his daughters know Jesus, if God did not predestine it, she is not so lucky, is she?

Butt out, ghost.

I refuse to discuss hypotheticals about Lucky and his family with you.

If Lucky wants to know my views, he can ask me and get valid answers from me directly . . . not a twisted version of my beliefs through your perverted mental grid or overlarged pie-hole.

Nang

 

[ghost]

Butt out, ghost.

Not gonna happen. I don't like the way you seduce people in an attempt to bring them under the spell of your false gospel.

I refuse to discuss hypotheticals about Lucky and his family with you.

Your answer tells the true story. You believe that God has chosen some people for hell and some for heaven, and unless God would predestine Lucky's child to be saved, she's going to hell.

 

[Persephone66]

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

 

[ThePresbyteers]

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[Nydhogg]

Meh. Everything and everyone is doomed already. We're gonna croak, after all. Our very own Universe will eventually be ripped apart, so even the line of our descendants is screwed.

I'd say there is NO hope, period. There might be, for a while. Assuming there's some kind of afterlife, that while might be longer. But there's no way around the end of the universe.
Eventually entropy and nothingness win. :idunno: They always win.

 

[ThePresbyteers]

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[ThePresbyteers]

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