toldailytopic: Is Mitt Romney pro-life?

Ps82

Well-known member
"It's autumn, so don't forget to go outside and watch the beautiful changing of Mitt Romney's positions."

-- Stephen Colbert

Well, now we know that a Christian Right winger and a Catholic left winger can agree on something. Interesting. Neither of you trusts Romney ... does that mean you both trust Obama, Nancy, and Harry, etc.?

Are you two just not voting or throwing your vote away to a third party candidate?
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
I think we have some momentum now, and I think that putting the repub in office, will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Everyone will see that the naysayers are right about how liberal the repubs really are.
I think this is part of why we differ. I don't want a hard conservative third party. I want a strong moderate coalition with certain conservative principles and a few liberal ones in play. So your win isn't really my win, except where it overlaps, like on abortion.
 

eameece

New member
He would be adamantly against abortion and birth control.
You might be right on that one. Although it's hard to know for sure since he said nothing at all remotely related to the subject; only what his surrogates centuries later said.
He would be against homosexuality, not to mention homo marriage
Jesus said nothing about those things.
He would be pro death penalty for evil behavior

To name a few
Quite untrue, As Maher points out; turn the other cheek kinda obliterates that idea.

Try again.
 

Buzz

New member
I think this is part of why we differ. I don't want a hard conservative third party. I want a strong moderate coalition with certain conservative principles and a few liberal ones in play. So your win isn't really my win, except where it overlaps, like on abortion.
I don't know your views on abortion. I honestly don't know what you think about Jesus.
 

Buzz

New member
You might be right on that one. Although it's hard to know for sure since he said nothing at all remotely related to the subject; only what his surrogates centuries later said.

Jesus said nothing about those things.

Quite untrue, As Maher points out; turn the other cheek kinda obliterates that idea.

Try again.
Jesus is God, and so He has said a great deal about all 3. Frankly, I don't really give a crap what worm food like you thinks anyway. Your worthless ideas will be as dead as you are in a few years.
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
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Romney was surrounded by Democrats in Massachusetts... in both legislative bodies. Murder of the innocent unborn is what you get when Democrats are in control.
:rolleyes:

You might be right on that one. Although it's hard to know for sure since he said nothing at all remotely related to the subject; only what his surrogates centuries later said.
Seeing as how God had something to say on the matter of killing those who do not deserve to die I'm going to say Jesus agreed.

Jesus said nothing about those things.
But God did. See above.

Quite untrue, As Maher points out; turn the other cheek kinda obliterates that idea.

Try again.
This is also false. Bill Maher is an idiot; he rejects the Bible based solely on what he thinks it says, or what others claim it does. For instance he rejects the idea of Satan based on the image of the red-skinned, horned guy with the trident and a tail, possibly goat legs and maybe wings. He clearly has no idea how Satan is described in the Bible.

And as God had something to say regarding killing those who do not deserve to die, in the same sentence He also said not to let those who don't deserve to live to continue living, rather put them to death.

And will you profane Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, killing people who should not die, and keeping people alive who should not live, by your lying to My people who listen to lies?
-Ezekiel 13:19
 

Delmar

Patron Saint of SMACK
LIFETIME MEMBER
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Bill Maher is an idiot. Jesus never suggested that the government feed the hungry.

I am no fan of Romney, by the way, but those who are upset that he didn't pay a lot in income taxes should note that he avoided taxes, in part by giving more money to charity than most of us will ever make. Granted, a lot of it was to the Mormon Church, but the Mormons do feed the hungry.

I repeat Bill Maher is an idiot!
 

eameece

New member
I wouldn't expect you guys to respect Bill Maher; his point is well-taken anyway, and his video was appropriate considering buzz's remark about the only candidate you guys could really trust would be Jesus. Turn the other cheek does not square with capital punishment. You can say Jesus is God, and therefore he said everything else that any of the other prophets or Bible writers said. Maybe that works in your religious right-wing fanatic universe, but not in the real world. The only way we know if Jesus said anything, is if it is attributed to him in a scripture. Jesus is not Ezekiel. Jesus said nothing about the causes that religious right-wing fanatics champion at all. If Jesus ran for president, you guys would reject him, and maybe even string him up, like folks just like you did to him back in 25 AD. Your religion has nothing to do with what Jesus taught. Rather than love and compassion, and helping and healing people, your religion is about finding excuses for punishing people that don't do what out-dated authority says they should do, because you are insecure and intolerant of others who are different than you. And by the way Ezekiel was a mystic who saw God; something you guys aren't, and don't.
 

eameece

New member
Bill Maher is an idiot. Jesus never suggested that the government feed the hungry.
He said to pay your taxes, something you guys don't like doing, or don't want to do. These days, paying taxes includes paying for helping the hungry. I know you guys believe in the principle of self-responsibility. That's good, but I don't know where Jesus taught that in the form you guys state it. His emphasis was on helping those who are less fortunate, not telling them to get some money from their father and start a business. Welfare and medicaid are not dependency programs. They are social insurance programs, so that if something happens to you, you don't have to rely on charity alone. Some people think it's better if there is not such social insurance programs. Others think they help people, and might help themselves and their family if the need arises, often through no fault of their own.

Individuals are not responsible for the great recession of 2008-2009. Speculators are. You guys don't want the government to regulate these bankers. Instead you, and the GOP politicians you support, want them to keep all their money, and make even more; and to stop the government from helping out those who suffered because of THEIR misdeeds. You guys truly are the ones who are supporting idiotic policies; not Bill Maher. I may not agree with Maher's theology, or lack thereof, but if he makes some good points I'm going to share them.
 

eameece

New member
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And this is Mitt's plans on abortion too.
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
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I posted before I read your response. Keep up the good work!
:thumb:

I wouldn't expect you guys to respect Bill Maher; his point is well-taken anyway, and his video was appropriate considering buzz's remark about the only candidate you guys could really trust would be Jesus. Turn the other cheek does not square with capital punishment. You can say Jesus is God, and therefore he said everything else that any of the other prophets or Bible writers said. Maybe that works in your religious right-wing fanatic universe, but not in the real world. The only way we know if Jesus said anything, is if it is attributed to him in a scripture. Jesus is not Ezekiel. Jesus said nothing about the causes that religious right-wing fanatics champion at all. If Jesus ran for president, you guys would reject him, and maybe even string him up, like folks just like you did to him back in 25 AD. Your religion has nothing to do with what Jesus taught. Rather than love and compassion, and helping and healing people, your religion is about finding excuses for punishing people that don't do what out-dated authority says they should do, because you are insecure and intolerant of others who are different than you. And by the way Ezekiel was a mystic who saw God; something you guys aren't, and don't.
When Jesus said to turn the other cheek He was not speaking of what the government should do to criminals, else your argument would be that we shouldn't even imprison them, but rather let them go free and never punish them for their crimes, ever.

And, FYI, anytime I have ever turned my other cheek after having been struck it just served to anger the one who struck me; they took it as an insult. Do you know why?

And I feel sorry for you when you stand before God if you're going to call Him an outdated authority.

And if you want to argue that Jesus didn't say to execute homosexuals because He didn't say anything regarding them at all then you have to concede He never said not to execute them. Otherwise you're just as dishonest as you are stupid; like your idol Bill Maher.
 

eameece

New member
:thumb:


When Jesus said to turn the other cheek He was not speaking of what the government should do to criminals, else your argument would be that we shouldn't even imprison them, but rather let them go free and never punish them for their crimes, ever.
I guess that's what Jesus is saying too. Except that he said to respect Caesar, and that those in government authority were given their positions by heaven. But capital punishment is an abuse of that authority, because it is simply the decision to get retribution.
And, FYI, anytime I have ever turned my other cheek after having been struck it just served to anger the one who struck me; they took it as an insult. Do you know why?
No I don't.
And I feel sorry for you when you stand before God if you're going to call Him an outdated authority.
You are equating the church and/or a book with God; I'm not. It's church authorities that are outdated; God is eternal and everywhere. But it's the Church to which you turn, not God.
And if you want to argue that Jesus didn't say to execute homosexuals because He didn't say anything regarding them at all then you have to concede He never said not to execute them. Otherwise you're just as dishonest as you are stupid; like your idol Bill Maher.
Why would he say not to execute them, when he had nothing to say on the subject?
 

Lighthouse

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I guess that's what Jesus is saying too. Except that he said to respect Caesar, and that those in government authority were given their positions by heaven. But capital punishment is an abuse of that authority, because it is simply the decision to get retribution.
No, He did not say those in authority were given their positions by Heaven. He said that the only real authority we have comes from God. It was never said that those in positions of authority do not ignore or overstep the authority given them by Him.

No I don't.
Because that's exactly what it is. If someone strikes you and you turn the other cheek, asking them to hit you again, it is an insult to their strength and thus their pride; because you are saying they are weak and that when they struck you it did not hurt, that it was nothing.

You are equating the church and/or a book with God; I'm not. It's church authorities that are outdated; God is eternal and everywhere. But it's the Church to which you turn, not God.
Who gave the commands recorded in the Bible?

And didn't you just say those in positions of authority were appointed by God? Which is it? You can't have it both ways.:nono:

Why would he say not to execute them, when he had nothing to say on the subject?
:doh:

If the rules on such had changed would it not make sense to say so; to have it recorded somewhere so we knew that God changed the rules?
 

eameece

New member
No, He did not say those in authority were given their positions by Heaven. He said that the only real authority we have comes from God. It was never said that those in positions of authority do not ignore or overstep the authority given them by Him.
Yes he did say that. But no that doesn't mean people in authority do not overstep their positions. But there is no difference between conduct personally, and conduct as a government. Killing for retribution by a state is not turning the other cheek.
Because that's exactly what it is. If someone strikes you and you turn the other cheek, asking them to hit you again, it is an insult to their strength and thus their pride; because you are saying they are weak and that when they struck you it did not hurt, that it was nothing.
That's why it's an act of power.
Who gave the commands recorded in the Bible?
People wrote them down, interpreting their inspiration from God as it came to them at that time.
And didn't you just say those in positions of authority were appointed by God? Which is it? You can't have it both ways.:nono:
Sure I can. Those in authority were appointed by God, acc. to Jesus. But to be authoritarian is to defer without question to those authorities instead of your own conscience and the light of truth within also given you by God. That is not what we do in a modern society. I'm not saying government is to be deferred to without question; only that government is legitimate. You are saying it's not; that we should not pay taxes to help those in need. I disagree; we should.

If the rules on such had changed would it not make sense to say so; to have it recorded somewhere so we knew that God changed the rules?
If you go only by what someone tells you the rules are, you are authoritarian. That is all I'm saying. Your religion is outdated and you defer to authority. YOu look to authority so you can punish the disobedient, rather than be inspired by Jesus to change society to make it compassionate.
 

Lighthouse

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Yes he did say that.
Where?

But there is no difference between conduct personally, and conduct as a government. Killing for retribution by a state is not turning the other cheek.
You're an idiot.

It's not even about retribution; it's about justice and punishment.

That's why it's an act of power.
Do you think it's about humility?

How far do you take it? Do you let a man who has broken into your house kill you an your family?

If he does that should the government let him go?

People wrote them down, interpreting their inspiration from God as it came to them at that time.
:rolleyes:

Did God give them or not?

Sure I can. Those in authority were appointed by God, acc. to Jesus. But to be authoritarian is to defer without question to those authorities instead of your own conscience and the light of truth within also given you by God. That is not what we do in a modern society. I'm not saying government is to be deferred to without question; only that government is legitimate. You are saying it's not; that we should not pay taxes to help those in need. I disagree; we should.
You're a moron.

If you go only by what someone tells you the rules are, you are authoritarian. That is all I'm saying. Your religion is outdated and you defer to authority. YOu look to authority so you can punish the disobedient, rather than be inspired by Jesus to change society to make it compassionate.
You're a fool.
 
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