Samstarrett
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So if Muhammad spread his religion by the sword, and Muhammad was God's messenger and never sinned according to Islam, does Islam endorse the spread of Islam by the sword?
toldailytopic: Is Islam a peaceful religion?
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So if Muhammad spread his religion by the sword, and Muhammad was God's messenger and never sinned according to Islam, does Islam endorse the spread of Islam by the sword?
GoingGoldenWCU
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The Islam of the time? Or Islam now? There's a difference, at least as I see it.
Samstarrett
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Well, fair enough. Islam as taught by the Prophet, which I'm sure any Muslim would tell you is the 'true' Islam. In fact, IMO, it's the peaceful Muslims who are not acting in accordance with their religion.
If Islam is different now, it is because it is compromised and away from its roots. True Islam ties in with Muhammad and Koran, not modern perversions of it.
That is why I could never become a Muslim. Islam is a religion full of hypocrites.:mock:
Its founder says in his holy book, not to truly be at peace, with the infidel, the Jews and the Christians especially. Yet the majority, at any given time, pretend to be living at peace with us, and make the "genuine" believers, look like extremists, when they slaughter, behead, rape and pillage, like Mohammed and his closest followers, did in the very beginning.
Just as Christianity is full of hypocrites who say they Love Jesus, yet fail to love, forgive, and show kindness and mercy to their neighbor, as Jesus did.
Islam is full of hypocrites who say they truly want to get along, and live in peace with their neighbors. That is not what Mohammed said, and definitely not what he did.
I was able to raise my hand and have him answer, my question. Is Islam a peaceful religion? He laughed, at the question! He said that according to its Holy book, they ultimately want to kill Christians and Jews, who refuse to convert. He said that they consider the land as belonging to them, and that Christians and Jews are considered "pollution", on the land, by Muslims. They want to purify the land. Although the "Arabs" used to live at peace with the Christians, and Jews; the Christian Arab population especially, is being driven out, in great numbers, by the Muslim persecutions.
There is no "peace" shown by the bombers and rocket launchers, except to blow up people into "pieces".
He said they are surrounded on practically all sides, by enemies. He said they have only one friendly border, it is called the Mediterranean.
He got a good laugh from us, at that point.
Christians/Jews could live if they paid a tax and were slave-like. If they refused to convert or pay, killing was a legit option (when J/C were not a threat or converted, peace was the initial story; Mecca vs Medina changed things with the last revelation trumping the older revelations; if you proof text early stuff, peace verses could be found; the later revelations negated them and were the violent verses; failing to understand this Muslim principle leads to wrong assumptions/conclusions; as well, lying and pretending to be peaceful before the kill was also considered fair game since the end justifies the means).
Islam must conquer individuals and nations by force/sword and does seek world domination. The Christian gospel is non-violent and conquers hearts/minds by love. Just because there are moderate Muslims does not mean true Islam and its roots are the same (the liberals do not reflect the truth; cf. liberal/nominal vs conservative Christian; those who kill in the name of Christ are contrary to Him; those who kill in the name of Islam are being good Muslims; Islam needs reforming...but it will not happen since deviation from their false prophet is subject to death). What is needed is a conversion from false religion to true God/Christ/Christianity.
Islam must conquer individuals and nations by force/sword and does seek world domination. The Christian gospel is non-violent and conquers hearts/minds by love. Just because there are moderate Muslims does not mean true Islam and its roots are the same (the liberals do not reflect the truth; cf. liberal/nominal vs conservative Christian; those who kill in the name of Christ are contrary to Him; those who kill in the name of Islam are being good Muslims; Islam needs reforming...but it will not happen since deviation from their false prophet is subject to death). What is needed is a conversion from false religion to true God/Christ/Christianity.
Amazing. Not only do you know what True Christianity is, you are also an authority on True Islam, and I suspect True Judaism as well!
Amazing! And you are so modest about it! Not a speck of arrogance!
Samstarrett
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Yep. Anyone who makes a truth claim is arrogant. :bang:
My source is Mark Gabriel and others who know true Islam inside out for decades (taught at their top university in the world and is now subject to death threats for converting to Christianity).
I can formulate an opinion on biblical Judaism from the OT and other writings. I can say with other Jews that liberal, Reformed Judaism is not true, biblical Judaism (conservative).
I can also make decisions about science, medicine, false cults, food, TV purchases, etc. based on available info. This does not make me infallible nor an expert on everything.
Read the Koran and Hadith to test whether liberal, modern Islam is true to its roots or not.
So, humble Jesus is arrogant? Paul? It is more arrogant for chair to deny truth despite the evidence.
It is one thing for you to disagree with Muslims or Jews on religious matters. It is another thing altogether for you to tell Jews or Muslims what their correct belief ought to be. Let the Jews and Muslims decide what their own beliefs are.
"Five members of Jewish family killed in suspected Palestinian militant attack: Parents and three children aged between three months and 11 knifed to death in their West Bank home..." Story :CRASH: Mt 7:16
"On Friday night, Palestinian terrorists slipped into a Jewish settlement, entered a home and stabbed the father, the mother and three of their children to death: an 11-year-old, a 4-year-old, and a three-month-old baby.
In order to understand what those actions mean, a seemingly separate incident needs to be recalled: the prolonged sexual attack by up to 200 Egyptian men on Lara Logan, chief foreign affairs correspondent for CBS News, in Tahrir Square, Cairo a few weeks ago. It was reported that after stripping her naked and then molesting and beating her, the men kept shouting, “Jew, Jew!”
The two incidents tell the same tale. In much of the Arab Muslim and some of the non-Arab Muslim world today (such as Iran), “Jew” is not a person. “Jew” is not even merely the enemy. In fact, there is no parallel on Earth to what “Jew” means to a hundred million, perhaps hundreds of millions of Muslims.
Think of any conflict in the world — Pakistan-India, China-Tibet, North Korea-South Korea, Tamil-Sinhalese. There are some deep hatreds there, and atrocities have been committed on one or both sides of those conflicts. But in none of those conflicts nor anywhere else is there something equivalent to what “Jew” means to millions of Muslims..." Full text: The Other Tsunami by Dennis Prager
See:
Jihad Watch
Qu'ran Quotes
"On Friday night, Palestinian terrorists slipped into a Jewish settlement, entered a home and stabbed the father, the mother and three of their children to death: an 11-year-old, a 4-year-old, and a three-month-old baby.
In order to understand what those actions mean, a seemingly separate incident needs to be recalled: the prolonged sexual attack by up to 200 Egyptian men on Lara Logan, chief foreign affairs correspondent for CBS News, in Tahrir Square, Cairo a few weeks ago. It was reported that after stripping her naked and then molesting and beating her, the men kept shouting, “Jew, Jew!”
The two incidents tell the same tale. In much of the Arab Muslim and some of the non-Arab Muslim world today (such as Iran), “Jew” is not a person. “Jew” is not even merely the enemy. In fact, there is no parallel on Earth to what “Jew” means to a hundred million, perhaps hundreds of millions of Muslims.
Think of any conflict in the world — Pakistan-India, China-Tibet, North Korea-South Korea, Tamil-Sinhalese. There are some deep hatreds there, and atrocities have been committed on one or both sides of those conflicts. But in none of those conflicts nor anywhere else is there something equivalent to what “Jew” means to millions of Muslims..." Full text: The Other Tsunami by Dennis Prager
See:
Jihad Watch
Qu'ran Quotes
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There are schisms and debates within their circles. Even an atheist can read the Bible and Church history and make an informed opinion about Christianity, Islam, Judaism.
If we can show that Sunni vs Shiite Muslims are correct or incorrect in light of Koran or Hadith, then we can give an informed opinion. Many followers of religions are ignorant of some of their own beliefs and history. I know things about JWs that they do not know because of their censorship.
My opinion on this issue is shaped by a Muslim expert who taught at their top university in the world. He reads Arabic and memorized the Koran by the age of 12.
Things are subject to interpretation, but I can see his points clearly from quotes of Koran/Hadith in context.
What you don't seem to follow is that many religions are not based not just on a written text, but on other sources, such as oral tradition, or the authority of certain people or groups as well.
There are examples in Christianity as well- examples you reject, repeating the Mantra "God's Word"- but they exist.
Judaism is certainly like that, and it seems that Islam has this type of element as well.
Yes, there are many varieties of Islam, Judaism, Christianity, but we can ascertain the original versions as God intended for Judaism/Christianity (pseudo-Christian cults like JWs and Mormons can be shown to not be biblical, historical, orthodox Christians). The basis for Islam is the Koran and Muhammad's teaching, so later perversions of it can be rejected if they are clearly contrary to the founder's intentions.
Jesus founded Christianity. If a group teaches contrary to Him and the NT, then it is not valid/superior. If a modern, liberal Jewish group teaches contrary to the OT and other Jewish sources, then the historical group has more credibility (since Judaism is based on OT Scripture/revelation, you cannot just invent a modern version and claim historical validity).
You are too liberal, relativistic to be credible.
Rabbinic Judaism is authentic Judaism, yet it is not the OT religion.
Similar things can be said of Catholicism.
I would have to be traveling far faster than I am to be relativistic.
Catholicism is not the original expression of Christianity either. The non-Catholic Christians are closer to the first century foundation that is true.
Sounds a bit like catholics. :think:
On a side note, Jesus shows no mercy to the unrepentant. He will grind them into powder.
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