toldailytopic: How would you feel about serving in the military with openly gay soldi

[Town Heretic]

Really?

Sure. I'm not going to be influenced by it or ask them to go into their orientation any more than I'm likely to inquire about another man's politics or religious affiliation. Maybe it's a cultural thing. :idunno:

And what if this openly gay person flamboyantly talked about his exploits on a daily basis as a way to gain attention and you were forbidden to ask him to stop?

I'd bet he'd find himself in the same hot water for sexual harassment that a straight man would for the same conduct around a woman in the unit...and the report would be more likely to be filed and seconded.

I've worked with gays and they tend to be attention starved and enjoy trying to "shock" others by reminding everyone constantly about their bedroom activities and attractions.

I've worked around and know a few. The guy who cuts my hair is gay. As nice a fellow as you could imagine. I've noticed that [proclivity you mention] in some of them, not in others. But then, I know any number of heterosexual guys who, without invitation, go into the same sort of conquest recital, etc. I find a cold reception tends to cure people of that crude practice.

Furthermore... men and women's barracks, bathrooms, showers, etc. are separated in the military for obvious reasons but with openly gay soldiers they wouldn't be separated from the other men. Doesn't that strike you as a bit odd? Or at very least awkward?

Not if the showers are used as showers. It's not as though gays would somehow become anything other than a very real minority presence in the military. Now understanding the sort of young man who enters into military service, how likely do you think it is that the gay fellow is going to misbehave? Put a woman in that shower room and I suspect you're going to get a far different outcome, both because of the nature of (young, heterosexual) men and the fact that, like the gay man, she'd be the sexual minority present.

 

[Arthur Brain]

That's where I think you are wrong.

By mandating that gays can be "open" you eliminate the ability to ask them to refrain from causing distraction therefore causing a much unneeded disruption.

In other words... if gays are to keep in the closet (like everyone else) the only possible disruption that is gays must keep to themselves like everyone else should.

We ask our military to do a great deal for us. We shouldn't add this unnecessary distraction to their already difficult job.

Well that's the rub. How do you keep everything 'in the closet' if you're serving in what are often hostile situations and where death can be around the corner?

Lets not kid ourselves. Sexuality/innuendo and all manner of things related are going to be pretty common fodder amongst many soldiers away from actual combat, so it's likely going to become evident that there's those who aren't straight even if it's kept 'secret' to begin with.

That's my take anyway. Office 'etiquette' usually has rules where foul language and sexual conversation/innuendo aren't supposedly tolerated but none in my experience has actually enforced them. As a 'rule' it's allowed as long as it doesn't go overboard and it's practically impossible to curb anyway.

It would be even more so in the military I would imagine.

 

[Granite]

Gay men and women serve in militaries the world over. If the Israelis can handle it without a problem I think Uncle Sam’s Army could, too. Why does anyone think our armed services will be so problematic?

 

[andyc]

Obviously there's a difference between judging homosexuality from a biblical perspective, and judging it according to human standards. As a christian if I can't tolerate socializing with a gay unbeliever, it means that I am judging them according to my standard, and that's wrong. That would make me a socially intolerant homophobe. I know that homosexuality is depraved, but not according to my standard. It's only by the grace of God that I've never had those desires.

We have to be careful that we don't end up like this guy............

Luke 18:11 "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men——extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.

Paul said............

1Cor 5:9-13
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner——not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and a sound mind. Homophobia is not of God, its the spirit of fear.

 

[Town Heretic]

Gay men and women serve in militaries the world over. If the Israelis can handle it without a problem I think Uncle Sam’s Army could, too. Why does anyone think our armed services will be so problematic?

Because it's disproportionately Southern and we all know how you Yankees love to prod us. :think: There's probably a better way to put that...good grief. lain:

 

[The Barbarian]

And what if this openly gay person flamboyantly talked about his exploits on a daily basis as a way to gain attention and you were forbidden to ask him to stop?

That's a serious offense under UCMJ. Harassment regs have serious teeth. Unfortunately as we have seen in the academies and in Iraq, senior officers have not always been willing to enforce them.

A few prematurely-ended careers might fix that.

 

[rexlunae]

In other words... if gays are to keep in the closet (like everyone else) the only possible disruption that is gays must keep to themselves like everyone else should.

Except that it's not the same as everyone else, and you know it. It doesn't matter how discrete a homosexual tries to be, if evidence is brought forward of his sexual orientation, he can be discharged, while even very obnoxious conduct by heterosexuals will go unpunished.

 

[ThePresbyteers]

This message is deleted and closed.

 

[Son of Jack]

Because it's disproportionately Southern and we all know how you Yankees love to prod us. :think: There's probably a better way to put that...good grief. lain:

:think:....














:shocked:

 

[Lighthouse]

And what if this openly gay person flamboyantly talked about his exploits on a daily basis as a way to gain attention and you were forbidden to ask him to stop? I've worked with gays and they tend to be attention starved and enjoy trying to "shock" others by reminding everyone constantly about their bedroom activities and attractions.

Furthermore... men and women's barracks, bathrooms, showers, etc. are separated in the military for obvious reasons but with openly gay soldiers they wouldn't be separated from the other men.

These are where the issue would lie with me, especially the second paragraph. I would be very uncomfortable.

 

[Psalmist]

toldailytopic: How would you feel about serving in the military with openly gay soldiers?​

In today's military, probably uncomfortable. However I would join to serve in spite of them. Yes, I would join the Navy again.

When I was in the Navy in the early 60's, there wasn't much said about the gays and the military. When I was stationed at NAS North Island, San Diego, there was one sailor who was found out and charged with UCMJ Article 125 Sodomy, and Article 134 the General Article, article 134 makes punishable acts of offenses not specifically covered in any other article of the code. The sailor was faced a Special Court Martial (tier 2 level) and was found guilty of all charges and specifications and was given an "Undesirable Discharge."

In the Navy the legal system starts with the Executive Officer's or Captain's Mast then if so ordered on to the Court Martial of level 1, 2, or 3, depending on the charges and specifications of the accused; the three court martial levels are Summary, Special, or General, and most charges carry an article 134 just be sure all things are covered.
​

 

[Ktoyou]

What to say, :think:
I am against conscription of women in the military. I would not want to be in the military either. Now there is more; women less often bunk up together when past the slumber party age and that is more about talking into the night than sleeping. So, what is my point?

Here it is, I would not like sleeping in a bed next to a woman who might have the hots for me, anymore than I would an estranged man. This is not for me.

 

[Buzzword]

I wouldn't mind having my butt covered by a guy who thinks my butt's pretty cute.
Maybe it'd motivate him to fight for more than just country.

Of course, given my lack of self-discipline, the gay guy in my foxhole would probably be more fit, a better shot, stronger, and a better hand-to-hand combatant than me.
A better wingman there is none.

It seems that many people are underestimating our soldiers' ability to keep their priorities straight, in the barracks or on the battlefield.
Either that, or maybe our soldiers aren't the finely honed battlefield geniuses they're made out to be?

I'd rather be optimistic, and say that the vast majority of our soldiers, no matter their orientation, would actually be (gasp!) PROFESSIONAL regarding their treatment of each other as fellow soldiers.

That may mean regulations to keep ALL on-duty fraternization prohibited or to a minimum, and enforcing that policy.

In the meantime, we should trust the men and women we send to die for us to be professionals when on-duty or deployed, and stay the hell out of their business the rest of the time.

 

[Nick M]

Better question might be, other than the Barbarian, who here served with gay men or women and how did it go?

If they were, they knew to shut up. Don't tell, or take the bad conduct discharge.

 

[Ktoyou]

Does anyone see why this might be worse for women? With men, you have many dorm mates who would discourage unwanted behaviour. With women, it might come to be a type of sexual bullying, where the others look the other way.

 

[zoo22]

I wouldn't care. Gay folks don't make me uncomfortable, unless they're just jerks, and that's the same with heterosexuals. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never had any of my gay friends or co-workers cross a line regarding sexuality, though I've known plenty of heterosexuals who have.

 

[zippy2006]

I don't like being around openly gay people. They gross me out. I guess I was born that way, I hope you can tolerate me.

It annoys me that they want so badly for me to know what they do in their bedroom. I don't want to hear that stuff. I certainly don't run around telling other people what I do in my bedroom, why should I want hear about their bedroom?

The gay people I have worked with seem attention starved. It doesn't seem to me they are looking for acceptance as much as they are looking for attention. It strikes me as extremely immature.

I'm a heterosexual but I think for the most part I am in "the closet" because I don't make it a point to let anyone know about my sexuality. After all, is that something we really need to discuss in the workplace or other public settings? When people say it's wrong for homosexuals to remain in the closet I ask why? Why should we promote discussing our sexual habits openly? :idunno:

I would not like serving in the military with openly gay soldiers. I think it would be a serious distraction from the task at hand which is our military obligations.

NPR just called. Turns out you're done 'fer :chuckle:

 

[fool]

I think gays and lesbians should have the same opportunitys to get shot or blown up as the rest of us.
On a side note, how was this handled when there was a draft? Instead of going to Canada all those guys could have just touched another guys junk and made themselves unsuitable? Or does it only count if they enjoyed it and how could you tell? Seems like it would have been alot easier than dodging all the bears and moose they got up there.
Also, isn't sex on duty forbidden homo, hetero, beast or otherwise? I thought even masturbation was forbidden, do they discharge people who they catch masturbating? Do they ask them what they were fantisizing about?
I also think gays and lesbians should be able to vote, own land, not be bought and sold as slaves, be counted in the census, hold public office, pay taxes, ride in the front of the bus, purchase firearms and get married.
If people don't want to serve with gays don't join the Army, if they don't want to work with them don't apply for a job, if they don't want to ride with them don't get on a bus.

 

[Lighthouse]

I think gays and lesbians should have the same opportunitys to get shot or blown up as the rest of us.

:shut:

 

[Cracked]

Exactly.

But here is the thing... if we make a point to allow openly gay people in the military how could we possibly ask them to NOT discuss what they do in their bedroom? In other words... what the gays are asking for (acceptance in the military to be completely open about their sexuality) is more than ANYONE should be allowed regardless of their sexual preference.

But isn't the difference if a straight person starts telling you about last night you can tell them to shut up, but that's it really. However, if that person is gay, and they start being gross, then they could be kicked out of the military.

Wouldn't it be best if we held them all to the same standard here?