toldailytopic: How does God judge the mentally handicapped when they die?

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Nathon Detroit

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for November 23rd, 2010 10:51 AM


toldailytopic: How does God judge the mentally handicapped when they die?






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Nathon Detroit

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Do they automatically get sent to hell because they have not had their sin forgiven?

or...

Do they get a pass into heaven because they are not accountable for their sin??
 
Pam Baldwin

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Knight said:
The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for November 23rd, 2010 10:51 AM


toldailytopic: How does God judge the mentally handicapped when they die?




Yes.
Herein enters your stand on election, and limited atonement.

If Christ died for that person, his sins are paid for and he will be saved.
It matters not what mental or physical capacity they are, as well as the aborted babies.

If you say that God saves all babies, aborted plus all those mentally handicapped to the extreme of not having a "mind", then shouldn't we all wish for handicapped babies....? They really are quite lucky.....they get eternal life regardless of themselves.
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TomO

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:plain: Very lightly IMHO for they have been given very little.

Luke 12:48
 
Nathon Detroit

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Pam Baldwin said:
Yes.
Herein enters your stand on election, and limited atonement.

If Christ died for that person, his sins are paid for and he will be saved.
It matters not what mental or physical capacity they are, as well as the aborted babies.

If you say that God saves all babies, aborted plus all those mentally handicapped to the extreme of not having a "mind", then shouldn't we all wish for handicapped babies....? They really are quite lucky.....they get eternal life regardless of themselves.
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I don't believe the mentally handicapped (or babies) are automatically saved. Nor do I believe they are automatically condemned. Neither of those options seem to fit within God's M.O.

God created us to fellowship with. He wants a relationship with us, it's a TWO-WAY street.

Therefore, I believe that the mentally handicapped (and babies) upon death are spiritually matured (how that happens I have no idea). When we die we will not have our physical bodies and our infirmaries. Only our soul will remain, and it will be that way for the mentally handicapped as well as babies.

Babies and the mentally handicapped have not had the chance or ability to make a conscious choice as to if they want to fellowship with God eternally. Therefore God will grant them that choice in the afterlife.

In other words... I don't think God ever robs anyone the ability to... "choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve" - Joshua 24:15
 
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agnostic_gnostic

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"But they have not accepted Jesus into their heart. Yet at the same time they do not have the faculties to understand the gospel message."
Knight
Thank you for the profound question ( it goes to the center ) and also for your empathic answers. We disagree on many things ( and that's OK, mostly its about trivial stuff such as is it a mosque or community center) . However, here I agree that you are spot on!
I have worked with the mentally handicapped and the mentally ill ( don't we all? :chuckle: ). Some are both. However, I have found that those that are less intellectually capable are actually MORE moral than the average person. They understand suffering when they see it in others. They are also less judgmental. Matthew 7:1. As for the delusional, confidentiality requires that I cannot be specific. However, I will say this." they are meek. They fear you more than you should fear them."
 
nicholsmom

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What do you mean by "mentally handicapped?"
It seems to me from these posts, that Knight means incapable of understanding the gospel message (wow, that's pretty profound retardation, and excludes those with mild to moderate mr), but capable of having a relationship with God (would this exclude the profoundly autistic, and many of the moderately autistic?).

Others seem to identify the mentally handicapped with children who are not held accountable for sin, but remember that they are held accountable for crimes committed, though often with a different sort of punishment.

TomO - you are so desperately off-base with your comment on how much they've been given, I don't know where to begin...
 
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agnostic_gnostic

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"but remember that they are held accountable for crimes committed, "
nicholsmom
First let me say that the insanity defense is VERY rarely used and almost never successful. That being said, lets suppose someone is truly delusional. Perhaps a thought experiment will make my idea clear. Suppose you are hypnotized ( please no red herrings asking if hypnotism is possible. If it is or not misses the point) and the hypnotist convinces you that a real gun ( that he hands you) is a squirt gun. He then convinces you that it would be a real funny joke if you squirted water in a particular person's face. You agree. Are you guilty ( in the eyes of God) of murder?
 
nicholsmom

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agnostic_gnostic said:
"but remember that they are held accountable for crimes committed, "
nicholsmom
First let me say that the insanity defense is VERY rarely used and almost never successful. That being said, lets suppose someone is truly delusional. Perhaps a thought experiment will make my idea clear. Suppose you are hypnotized ( please no red herrings asking if hypnotism is possible. If it is or not misses the point) and the hypnotist convinces you that a real gun ( that he hands you) is a squirt gun. He then convinces you that it would be a real funny joke if you squirted water in a particular person's face. You agree. Are you guilty ( in the eyes of God) of murder?
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What??? I made the comment that the mentally handicapped (NOT the mentally ill) are held accountable for crimes committed - which is an implication that they will also be held accountable for sins committed - and you return with this??? :freak:
 
Cracked

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"Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents."

"Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, 'Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.'"

Mark 12:41-44
 
Lighthouse

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I agree with Knight, to a point. I'm not sure I believe they are immediately matured [babies] but are placed in Abraham's Bosom to await maturation according to natural time progression. As for the mentally handicapped, I believe they are relieved of that infirmity immediately.

And a_g, there is more to Matthew 7 than the first verse.
 
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agnostic_gnostic

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"and you return with this???"
nicholsmom
So you are saying that if a mentally handicapped person commits a crime because he/she is not capable of understanding death, they are guilty of murder? I'm sorry you have no clue as to what I am saying.
Please less emotion and more logic.
 
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agnostic_gnostic

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In case you think my question was absurd, I have worked with the mentally handicapped community. My example of not knowing what death is, is accurate in many cases. For example, a particular client was watching the movie "Moby Dick". She asked," Whats Ahab's problem? He can always grow back his leg!"
 
Lighthouse

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Knight said:
I didn't say "immediately". I don't know what that process would be like or how long it would take. But I'm glad you agree in principle. :)
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I inferred it from this:

Knight said:
Therefore, I believe that the mentally handicapped (and babies) upon death are spiritually matured (how that happens I have no idea).
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A simple misunderstanding.
 
Nathon Detroit

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Lighthouse said:
I inferred it from this:


A simple misunderstanding.
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I guess I should have said... after death.

All I meant was after a mentally handicapped person dies, God allows them to mature or they are matured in some fashion (which I don't know how or where) so that they can make a free choice as to where they want to spend eternity.
 
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