Too bad you cannot connect the dots (Eccl 10:2, Hos 8:4).
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toldailytopic: How do you feel about building a mosque at ground zero?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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There is the other option of remembering the principles upon which America was founded but I'm more inclined to believe it is a lost cause.
Now try the actual point you're running from so fast the ghost of Jessee Owens is applauding in admiration.lain:
Right after he finishes up your scratch and sniff app. That should keep TOL mostly upwind.
I don't have any reason not to, but that's never been at the heart of my argument...the argument that has your ham strings tightening up like piano wire. :upright:
Yep. People pray and everything. They've been doing it there for some time now without interfering with the gambling den or strip club trade.
Is it the second largest private shareholder in Fox News? :chuckle: Seriously, the article you link to doesn't even refer to him as having current involvement with the mosque or Rauf. And do you know how many non Muslims believe 9/11 was some sort of conspiracy?
People.
Sounds like a rich Muslim in serious denial about 9/11. And?
Okay, he got the dates wrong. He wasn't active as of four instead of seven years ago.
Who touted Faiz Khan as a moderate? Not saying he isn't in his beliefs regarding Islam in relation to the West, but who advanced that argument you appear to be countering?
Whereas you only need the sound of your fingers tapping against the keyboard to sound foolish.
Glad you think I'm sweet, but it's still not ground zero.
So I see you found a new way to project envy as a virtue. :thumb:
Said the fellow arguing to do exactly that to a group of people who have the audacity to want to build a house of worship in the midst of a bigoted, knee jerk, paranoid sea of humanity.
Given what you've traded virtue for, this surprises me not at all.
You spend a great deal of time on that subject, either in praise of or pulling arguments from, apparently.
As usual TH begins with a lot of meaningless ad homs reflecting righteous indignation normal for the elite. Then we get to the good stuff
Why would anyone envy pompous ignorance unless they want to be one of the crowd that celebrates each other's pompous ignorance as elite?
It is another reason why the Bible is hated. It reveals the pompous ignorance of the educated elite. Consider "Paul's obvious absurdity:"
1 Corinthians
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
26Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."
Those like TH believe I should be envious of the "wisdom" of the experts. Why should I be envious of people celebrating each other's pompous ignorance? True, I make money off of them but why see it other than what it is; the celebration of the two primary sins: pride and vanity?
The more time spent on top of this subject, the better. It lessens the attraction to the absurd these experts come up with.
This of course is the biggie for the educated elite. This is how they view the common man John referred to. In the mind of the educated elite, they are the "Great Unwashed," the MOB, so repulsive to the educated elite because they have a sense of inner morality that has not yet been completely atrophied by the influence of the "educated elite."
It is nothing new. The struggle against the educated elite is an ancient one.
The wisdom of man vs. the wisdom of Sophia. I'll stick with Sophia rather than the wisdom of man that would like to inflict the unwanted on to those that directly experienced the horrors of Ground Zero.
Said the fellow who does little else, was being answered on entirely that practice, and then goes on to do almost exclusively that for most of the rest of this... :chuckle:
Speaking of the usual.
Still beating that ignorance as virtue drum I see.
Double downed on the ignorance/pompous combo. Looks like somebody touched on somebody else's nerve with the whole envy idea.
You'll need the first reason first though.
He said, not realizing that Christ was so well versed he confounded those much older than he and that Paul was a fairly sharp and educated man himself. :chuckle:
Education is a good thing, silly wanna be rabbi. Vanity, attached to anything from education to ignorance is more problematic.
Absolutely. God is the source of knowledge that the scholar pursues. He is so far above that fellow as to make the proudest moments in man's academic/intellectual advancement a bit chuckle worthy and that's a fact.
Here's another fact: you aren't Him.
No. I think you shouldn't be proud of ignorance and are in need of a serious education. Your thoughts are disjointed. Your examples frequently miss the mark or contradict your intent in using them. In short, you suffer from a want of critical and highly organized thinking. And substituting a Bartlett's fit isn't making up for the deficiency.
He said, sputtering out the mantra meant to protect him from self examination.
See? The elitist hating, pompous throwing fellow not so secretly believes that he's smarter and better, being able to take advantage of them while he sneers. So he's both demonstrably pompous and a closet elitist, only he substitutes his own declaration for any actual, measurable accomplishment. :thumb:
You're like a monkey attempting calculus. I'm not saying a class would help, but it couldn't hurt.
lain: Any class would help you.Funny coming from the only fellow using the term to describe anyone.
Nope. Though lynch mobs are detestable for any number of reasons and most mobs aren't involved in a noble pursuit or purpose. There's nothing moral about what the liar here has been attempting to paint a virtue.
Only on the part of the profoundly ignorant in their want of company.
A feeling held by many a Southern racist about integration. You'd have fit right in with your pointy headed intellectuals and anti government screed.
Said one who watched from a distance and now insinuates himself for political gain. And the building of a mosque isn't inflicting any injury on a single virtuous soul. The phobic, blinkered, or simply errantly emotional? They inflict damage on themselves.
WizardofOz
New member
Why wasn't there any outrage over the Muslims praying at the Pentagon? Now we know which side is truly politicizing this mosque.
Isn't this site "hallowed ground" as well?
Muslim prayers welcome at Pentagon chapel
I guess the opportunistic dunces missed this one.
Isn't this site "hallowed ground" as well?
Muslim prayers welcome at Pentagon chapel
| Less than 100 feet from where a hijacked airplane slammed into the Pentagon, Muslim military personnel bring prayer rugs on weekday afternoons for group worship. On Fridays, a local imam conducts a service in the Pentagon Memorial Chapel built after the September 11, 2001, terror attacks by al Qaeda that killed 184 people at the U.S. military headquarters. |
I guess the opportunistic dunces missed this one.
Said the fellow who does little else, was being answered on entirely that practice, and then goes on to do almost exclusively that for most of the rest of this... :chuckle:
Speaking of the usual.
Still beating that ignorance as virtue drum I see.
Double downed on the ignorance/pompous combo. Looks like somebody touched on somebody else's nerve with the whole envy idea.
You'll need the first reason first though.
He said, not realizing that Christ was so well versed he confounded those much older than he and that Paul was a fairly sharp and educated man himself. :chuckle:
Education is a good thing, silly wanna be rabbi. Vanity, attached to anything from education to ignorance is more problematic.
Absolutely. God is the source of knowledge that the scholar pursues. He is so far above that fellow as to make the proudest moments in man's academic/intellectual advancement a bit chuckle worthy and that's a fact.
Here's another fact: you aren't Him.
No. I think you shouldn't be proud of ignorance and are in need of a serious education. Your thoughts are disjointed. Your examples frequently miss the mark or contradict your intent in using them. In short, you suffer from a want of critical and highly organized thinking. And substituting a Bartlett's fit isn't making up for the deficiency.
He said, sputtering out the mantra meant to protect him from self examination.
See? The elitist hating, pompous throwing fellow not so secretly believes that he's smarter and better, being able to take advantage of them while he sneers. So he's both demonstrably pompous and a closet elitist, only he substitutes his own declaration for any actual, measurable accomplishment. :thumb:
You're like a monkey attempting calculus. I'm not saying a class would help, but it couldn't hurt.
Funny coming from the only fellow using the term to describe anyone.
Nope. Though lynch mobs are detestable for any number of reasons and most mobs aren't involved in a noble pursuit or purpose. There's nothing moral about what the liar here has been attempting to paint a virtue.
Only on the part of the profoundly ignorant in their want of company.
A feeling held by many a Southern racist about integration. You'd have fit right in with your pointy headed intellectuals and anti government screed.
Said one who watched from a distance and now insinuates himself for political gain. And the building of a mosque isn't inflicting any injury on a single virtuous soul. The phobic, blinkered, or simply errantly emotional? They inflict damage on themselves.
As I've said. TH is without substance which is compensated for by righteous indignation and ad homs.
Exhibit A;
1) Said the fellow who does little else, was being answered on entirely that practice, and then goes on to do almost exclusively that for most of the rest of this...
2) Still beating that ignorance as virtue drum I see.
3) Double downed on the ignorance/pompous combo. Looks like somebody touched on somebody else's nerve with the whole envy idea.
4) You'll need the first reason first though.
5) You're like a monkey attempting calculus. I'm not saying a class would help, but it couldn't hurt. Any class would help you.
No substance. Nothing but expressions of pompous self importance.
The first statement that means anything. It raises the question of how education is defined. Indoctrination is also considered education. As TH uses it, education is nothing but a feel good word that implies something worthwhile. Being educated in the most efficient methods of killing may not really be all that good.
But this is what the educated elite do. They throw these words around as though they mean something only because believing themselves educated flatters their ego and allows them to believe they are superior to the mob. Are they or are they just part of a different mob?
I have been the one admitting that I am the wretched man. TH flaunts his "education." Which attitude expresses humility?
Ignorance is defined by TH and the educated elite as that which doesn't agree with them. They think that their New Age critical thinking is actually worth something more than self flattery. It is a reaction typical of the educated elite and this influence is partially responsible why, though society has access to so many facts, as a whole it understands so little.
Again, I'm the one referring to the value of inner empiricism. You speak of "education."
All this because I say that I make money off of them. I've played as a musician at a lot of political parties. I get paid for it. I'm in the back on break often when politicians half bombed BS with each other. For some reason how they refer to the people is not the same as the content of their speeches.
What does this have to do with me being pompous, feeling superior, or anything else. It is just the sad recognition of the nature of politics.
The educated one doesn't know that the "Great Unwashed" was not invented by me.
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/29346.html
Unfortunately it is the educated elite that defines a mob. In their eyes for example. the Great Unwashed is a mob unworthy of the vote so lacks standing to know if Obama is a natural born citizen. Desiring to cast an educated vote is no longer a noble pursuit. Why cater to the "Great Unwashed" who for some reason think that they are "We the People?" How foolish of them and only proves their ignorance.
Yes. Like Socrates, we admit we know nothing. So we share our ignorance.
What does this have to do with the wisdom of Sophia?
Typical of the educated elite and their addiction to New Age critical thinking to defend their misguided preconceptions.
I'm an artist and not a politician. There is nothing for me to gain in politics since I am not a politician. However, America honors the wisdom of the common man. The educated elite is oblivious of it. That is why they have no conception of what hallowed ground means.
"Common sense is genius dressed in its working clothes." Emerson
Since the educated elite would be repulsed by working clothes, they are incapable of common sense.
Wiz, it isn't a matter of kicking out Muslims but rather imposing a NEW Sharia mosque on a site that was attacked by those furthering Sharia law. Who objects to Muslims in the military praying in a chapel? Sheesh!
"Sharia law" is like saying "legal legal." Or "black black."
And this isn't just a mosque, nor is it at ground zero. Curious: are you opposed to new mosques being built anywhere, or just within the five boroughs of New York City?
Sharia law is one thing. Old Testament law is another. They are both law but yet different.
If you know of a building in Brooklyn or Queens that was damaged by an attacking plane on 9/11, I wouldn't want a Sharia mosque built on it either.
zoo22
Well-known member
Because it's been turned into such a heated issue, and too much genuine anti-Muslim sentiment has become associated with moving it.
Also, I just don't think the location is an affront. The project keeps being touted as if it's some sort of behemoth mosque skyscraper located on Ground Zero... It's not. It's a community center/mosque in the neighborhood. You can't see it from G0, and you can't see G0 from where it's located. 13(?) stories obviously isn't small, but it's dwarfed by many buildings around there.
Again, said the guy who substitutes them for argument. I set mine out and you did Butkus in response. Don't blame me for what you give me to work with.
Re: education.
Neither true nor supported. So you're consistent then...
Higher education isn't a belief. It's a fact. You'd know the difference had you one. Else, no one who does possess one derives an ego boost from comparing themselves to the general population. Or, if they do, they missed part of the education that gives it real value.
Repeatedly, despite the fact that no one is arguing the point.
lain: How does anyone actually do that anyway...Would a few spelling and punctuation errors make you feel better?
See, if you're trying to point out your humility compared to someone else the chances are that you shouldn't. :nono:
In the sense that when someone makes a rationally inconsistent or absurd statement I recognize it, in part due to the critical skills advanced by the process of my education, sure.
All you do by beating this drum is expose your fear and insecurity. Why not, instead, apply yourself and get the thing that would make you happier and less likely to say silly things like this?
You refer to any number of things. You establish next to nothing.
Not as much as I thought, though your admission is a fine first step on the road to recovery. :first:
Rather, you-were-the-only-one-using-the-term-to-describe-anyone-else. There, slow enough for you to get the actual and stated point? What, you want a mob to write dictionaries?
lain:See: self referential back patting pomposity and elitism by proxy. Do people ever actually read newspapers through you?
oly: :think:And a hero. And wise like Socrates. Did I miss one of your other self appointments? I dozed off once or twice.
Not really. That's why we're a Republic and not a democracy. We are founded on the vision of the uncommon. They put in safe guards to protect the government from abuse by an ill considered majority. And they initially limited the vote to men like themselves, who owned property and were--wait for it--well educated.
Sure. It's right near the strip club, but protected from a house of worship, apparently, in your bizarrely imbalanced perspective.
What complete nonsense. I've dug sock wells, washed dishes, bused tables and set pilings to pay for a days food and lodging. I've taught school and worked among the poorest people of the "black belt"...Rather, the rounded, educated man values honor and integrity. He understands that any honest work is honorable and the man who does it is worthy of respect.
Hi Zoo
Is it correct to say that you believe moving the mosque is more an anti Muslim demand than respecting the people that have directly suffered the results of 9/11. These motives are completely different.
In my case I've been around long enough to know what the story is. It is an old story. Imam Rauf will be a hero overseas and known as the Imam who established our victory at Ground Zero.
Only the educated elite fall for his Interfaith gift of gab. Would a real spiritual compassionate man be a slum lord:
http://beta.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2010/sep/14/union-city-nj-files-lawsuit-against-imam-rauf/
More problems for Feisal Abdul Rauf, the imam behind the proposed Islamic center near Ground Zero: He's being sued by Union City, New Jersey, for failing to maintain a 16-unit apartment building he owns there. Union City spokesman Mark Albiez says Rauf would qualify as one of the city's three worst landlords.
"We have our share of absentee landlords who don't really invest much in their buildings, don't invest much in taking care of the residents in their buildings," Albeiz said. "And he's on the top of that list."
Albiez says the city's lawsuit has nothing to do with the controversial Islamic cultural center and mosque project. According to the complaint, Rauf's building has numerous, long-standing fire code violations, and several tenants had no water or gas, because utility bills had not been paid.
The lawsuit asks the state Supreme Court to place Rauf's building in receivership until its safety and plumbing problems are addressed. No comment from Rauf.
To establish this token of victory will make Imam a legend overseas. Why do people that have suffered 9/11 have to endure cheap politics on top of it.
You seem to be more concerned with anti-Muslim sentiments which are only a small minority of those that oppose the Ground Zero mosque.
I know people that have died there and what it has done to their families. I see no reason why this Sharia mosque cannot be moved. If Imam Rauf decides to announce that in the spirit of peace and unity he will move it to another location, that action will ease whatever anti-Muslim sentiment there is. He won't do it since he wishes to further his influence by taking advantage of the sufferings of others just as any slum lord does.
It isn't the size but rather the site itself. It will be built on the remains of a building damaged in the attack.
It won't be built. There is too much against it now. It just amazes me that there is so much resistance against doing the right thing and just being considerate to a community that has endured great suffering. Keep sleazy politics out
It's not ground zero.
It's also not about compassionate sensitivity (since that isn't extended to the Muslims who died and whose families might find comfort in the mosque and its dedication against the sort of attack that perverted their religion, not to mention those families of victims who support the mosque being built) but about trading on the paranoia and unreasoned fears of a mob mentality in an attempt to turn political capital from a national tragedy. It's playing down to the lowest common denominator: a cry against the "other" and promoting the notion that the actions of villains should rightly taint those who have done nothing, which is a half step removed from guilty until proven innocent.
Bah.
It's also not about compassionate sensitivity (since that isn't extended to the Muslims who died and whose families might find comfort in the mosque and its dedication against the sort of attack that perverted their religion, not to mention those families of victims who support the mosque being built) but about trading on the paranoia and unreasoned fears of a mob mentality in an attempt to turn political capital from a national tragedy. It's playing down to the lowest common denominator: a cry against the "other" and promoting the notion that the actions of villains should rightly taint those who have done nothing, which is a half step removed from guilty until proven innocent.
Bah.
Again, said the guy who substitutes them for argument. I set mine out and you did Butkus in response. Don't blame me for what you give me to work with.
Re: education.
Neither true nor supported. So you're consistent then...
Higher education isn't a belief. It's a fact. You'd know the difference had you one. Else, no one who does possess one derives an ego boost from comparing themselves to the general population. Or, if they do, they missed part of the education that gives it real value.
Repeatedly, despite the fact that no one is arguing the point.
How does anyone actually do that anyway...Would a few spelling and punctuation errors make you feel better?
See, if you're trying to point out your humility compared to someone else the chances are that you shouldn't. :nono:
In the sense that when someone makes a rationally inconsistent or absurd statement I recognize it, in part due to the critical skills advanced by the process of my education, sure.
All you do by beating this drum is expose your fear and insecurity. Why not, instead, apply yourself and get the thing that would make you happier and less likely to say silly things like this?
You refer to any number of things. You establish next to nothing.
Not as much as I thought, though your admission is a fine first step on the road to recovery. :first:
What, you want a mob to write dictionaries?
See: self referential back patting pomposity and elitism by proxy. Do people ever actually read newspapers through you?
And a hero. And wise like Socrates. Did I miss one of your other self appointments? I dozed off once or twice.
Not really. That's why we're a Republic and not a democracy. We are founded on the vision of the uncommon. They put in safe guards to protect the government from abuse by an ill considered majority. And they initially limited the vote to men like themselves, who owned property and were--wait for it--well educated.
Sure. It's right near the strip club, but protected from a house of worship, apparently, in your bizarrely imbalanced perspective.
What complete nonsense. I've dug sock wells, washed dishes, bused tables and set pilings to pay for a days food and lodging. I've taught school and worked among the poorest people of the "black belt"...Rather, the rounded, educated man values honor and integrity. He understands that any honest work is honorable and the man who does it is worthy of respect.
Now I have to admit my ignorance. I had to consult the dictionary to learn what Butkus is:
"Butkus is the masculine form of a Lithuanian family name."
How do ya like that; an anti-Lithuanian slur. Would you have the nerve to say this to Dick Butkus? Have you asked his opinion on the Ground Zero mosque?
I'm sorry but this is nothing but elitist bupkis
No. You would know the difference if you had one.
No. Flaunting is done through expressions of empty righteous indignation.
In other words you've become a legend in your mind through the continual use of New Age critical thinking.
How many women can a man handle at one time? Forty virgins is a waste of a diminishing natural resource.
I cannot establish inner empiricism for you. Your mind must first become open to experiencing it.
I am the only one using it on this thread which is not to say the only one that uses the term.
I'm making a list. I'll have to get back to you on that.
So much for "We the People." electing representatives. Now the Great Unwashed lacks standing for the information necessary to cast an educated vote.
The results of higher education. No concept of what hallowed ground means.
Emerson was referring to common sense. Not everyone in working clothes has the genius to be capable of it.
No, it is you and this Interfaith nonsense that plays to the lowest common denominator. Perennial philosophy is concerned with the “Highest Common Factor." Your higher education prevents you from appreciating the difference so you cannot admit the value of keeping sleazy politics away from Ground Zero.
You don't seem to know what the word "sharia" really means.
Are you so stupid that you think this center will be built at ground zero?
WizardofOz
New member
The Pentagon was also attacked on 911 :duh:
Isn't it disrespectful to allow Muslims to be all religious and stuff near that "hallowed ground"? How does this site differ from the abandoned Burlington Coat Factory Building?
When are you going to get it through your head?
:sozo: Its' not about what you want!
He says without noting what that would be or how he can justify whatever he means by it...see, Inapplicable One, that's what I meant by declaration in lieu of argument and what another poster noted in your tendency to attempt to hijack a point raised with this "I know you are but what am I" sort of response--a tactic of yours I've long been familiar with.
Again, and more fully, the lowest common denominator is playing to the ethnocentric tendency to be suspicious of and place less a lesser value on that which is less like you and, conversely, to value more highly that which is more like you and yours. It's essential humanity 101. That's the cornerstone of groups of all sorts, from the beneficial (like your local Christian denomination, or Rotary Club) to the horrific (like the Klan or political parties). The idea of ecumenical movements would actually be the opposite of an expression of that fundamental human tendency, since its aim would be to familiarize you with the other, using the familiarity to lessen the degree of negative response and to foster an appreciation that could engender, over time, its inclusion in that which is familiar and valued, even if not to the degree and extent of one's own faith and ideas. That is, the ecumenical idea fosters a beneficial form of tolerance and recognition that makes bias driven, hate blinded nonsense less likely.
So you're wrong. Again. Now let's look at your second declaration...
You're attempting to cloak your unreasoned paranoia in Huxley? :chuckle:
Sorry, I mean you're attempting to appear to do it. You might as well have said "The French Revolution is concerned with the Highest Common Factor..." for all you actually said by and about it...
Rather, your insufficient one allows you to write unsubstantiated nonsense without the slightest bit of obvious shame, misapprehend a great deal of argument, and continue to call a thing by a name that isn't applicable. And given I'm not the one calling for anything that would require governmental or even legal involvement, the political sleaze isn't oozing from the pores of my argument.
lain:TH
Your conception of ethnocentricity is not the lowest common denominator. The lowest common denominator is our shared inner lies. Supporting our inner lies is the fallacy of secular Interfaith.
You do not appreciate that our inner lies deny the possibility of what you describe. It sounds wonderful but is not practical because it is based on the habitual exchange of lies: the refusal to recognize and admit the human condition in ourselves. We become more familiar with lies but the same conditions that cause division remain and return as soon as external conditions warrant.
The "highest common factor" is the objective potential for human "being:" to become ourselves or the reality that is free of inner lies. At that level of reality, there is no need to lie since the truth reveals the manner in which humanity is connected
America is a country built on ideas that further striving towards the highest common factor and the spiritual goal of freedom. That is why it was founded on principles rather than laws. If we no longer value these ideas, we lose the unique value of the country.
One of these principles requires respecting individuality, family, community, and country. Positive patriotism is really just the experience of a vulnerable extended family.
Though we are incapable of these ideals, it is the process of admitting them and striving towards them that allows a person to experience of our obligations to these ideals that guarantee "rights."
Though we have the right to impose ourselves upon others, we have the obligation to consider the consequences of doing so.
This is the essence of the mosque controversy. The developers have the right to build it but is it in the spirit of American ideals that make us feel the obligations we have to others and a community?
How do we find the balance between obligations and rights? For America to survive as a free country, we must restore this balance.
I respect the space that is symbolic of the national tragedy requiring it to be free of political manipulation. You think the rights of the developers are what is important and the feelings of others you believe to be unfounded, must be ignored. You consider this attitude as part of the solution and I consider it to be part of the problem.
Everything in the unverse moves in cycles including cultures. America is on the downside of a cultural cycle. Will it just die or can it remember its unique value. I don't think it can. Just this obvious denial of respect for hallowed ground and what it means to the psych of people over political rights proves we are on the way out.
Once people forget that it is important to nourish the goose if you want it to continue laying golden eggs, then it is all over. The goose dies and regardless of the demand for rights, there are no more eggs.
The ideas America is built upon require the positive side of ethnocentricity. While the negative is based upon the egoistic aims of power and force "prestige," the positive side is the recognition of what we are in relation to becoming ourselves and the fact that though there are many paths that lead to a higher commonality, we get in our own way and prefer justifying inner lies as a calming influence that keeps us in ignorance. Simone explains positive ethnocentrism but as we are, we are not open to it.
"The combination of these two facts – the longing in the depth of the heart for absolute good, and the power, though only latent, of directing attention and love to a reality beyond the world and of receiving good from it – constitutes a link which attaches every man without exception to that other reality. Whoever recognizes that reality recognizes that link. Because of it, he holds every human being without any exception as something sacred to which he is bound to show respect. This is the only possible motive for universal respect towards all human beings." Simone Weil “Draft for A Statement of Human Obligations” SIMONE WEIL, AN ANTHOLOGY ed. Sian Miles
America is unique in that it has this idea as its potential. It offers the Highest Common Factor as something higher than ourselves and normal as we become more human. Trying to hide the lowest common denominator through shared inner lies rather than admitting it for what it is only leads to cyclical temporal results. It is like putting a lot of mayonnaise on bad meat. At some point its rotten nature will become clear.
My objection to secular Interfaith is that it concentrates on mayonnaise while considering recognition of the human condition for what it is, the meat, as "disruptive." Jesus was disruptive because he referred to the importance of admitting the human condition in ourselves.
The area around ground zero has an effect on many. Do we profit from it by keeping it clear of political manipulation for the sake of objective self awareness or do we sacrifice it to those seeking to take advantage of its vulnerabilty. It is our choice.
Your conception of ethnocentricity is not the lowest common denominator. The lowest common denominator is our shared inner lies. Supporting our inner lies is the fallacy of secular Interfaith.
You do not appreciate that our inner lies deny the possibility of what you describe. It sounds wonderful but is not practical because it is based on the habitual exchange of lies: the refusal to recognize and admit the human condition in ourselves. We become more familiar with lies but the same conditions that cause division remain and return as soon as external conditions warrant.
The "highest common factor" is the objective potential for human "being:" to become ourselves or the reality that is free of inner lies. At that level of reality, there is no need to lie since the truth reveals the manner in which humanity is connected
America is a country built on ideas that further striving towards the highest common factor and the spiritual goal of freedom. That is why it was founded on principles rather than laws. If we no longer value these ideas, we lose the unique value of the country.
One of these principles requires respecting individuality, family, community, and country. Positive patriotism is really just the experience of a vulnerable extended family.
Though we are incapable of these ideals, it is the process of admitting them and striving towards them that allows a person to experience of our obligations to these ideals that guarantee "rights."
Though we have the right to impose ourselves upon others, we have the obligation to consider the consequences of doing so.
This is the essence of the mosque controversy. The developers have the right to build it but is it in the spirit of American ideals that make us feel the obligations we have to others and a community?
How do we find the balance between obligations and rights? For America to survive as a free country, we must restore this balance.
I respect the space that is symbolic of the national tragedy requiring it to be free of political manipulation. You think the rights of the developers are what is important and the feelings of others you believe to be unfounded, must be ignored. You consider this attitude as part of the solution and I consider it to be part of the problem.
Everything in the unverse moves in cycles including cultures. America is on the downside of a cultural cycle. Will it just die or can it remember its unique value. I don't think it can. Just this obvious denial of respect for hallowed ground and what it means to the psych of people over political rights proves we are on the way out.
Once people forget that it is important to nourish the goose if you want it to continue laying golden eggs, then it is all over. The goose dies and regardless of the demand for rights, there are no more eggs.
The ideas America is built upon require the positive side of ethnocentricity. While the negative is based upon the egoistic aims of power and force "prestige," the positive side is the recognition of what we are in relation to becoming ourselves and the fact that though there are many paths that lead to a higher commonality, we get in our own way and prefer justifying inner lies as a calming influence that keeps us in ignorance. Simone explains positive ethnocentrism but as we are, we are not open to it.
"The combination of these two facts – the longing in the depth of the heart for absolute good, and the power, though only latent, of directing attention and love to a reality beyond the world and of receiving good from it – constitutes a link which attaches every man without exception to that other reality. Whoever recognizes that reality recognizes that link. Because of it, he holds every human being without any exception as something sacred to which he is bound to show respect. This is the only possible motive for universal respect towards all human beings." Simone Weil “Draft for A Statement of Human Obligations” SIMONE WEIL, AN ANTHOLOGY ed. Sian Miles
America is unique in that it has this idea as its potential. It offers the Highest Common Factor as something higher than ourselves and normal as we become more human. Trying to hide the lowest common denominator through shared inner lies rather than admitting it for what it is only leads to cyclical temporal results. It is like putting a lot of mayonnaise on bad meat. At some point its rotten nature will become clear.
My objection to secular Interfaith is that it concentrates on mayonnaise while considering recognition of the human condition for what it is, the meat, as "disruptive." Jesus was disruptive because he referred to the importance of admitting the human condition in ourselves.
The area around ground zero has an effect on many. Do we profit from it by keeping it clear of political manipulation for the sake of objective self awareness or do we sacrifice it to those seeking to take advantage of its vulnerabilty. It is our choice.
- Status