toldailytopic: Does it matter what day of the week you go to church?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Krsto
Well-known member
:think:
Well yeah.....If you go on the wrong day you'll be the only one there.lain:
You say that like it's a bad thing.
lain:If you go on the wrong day you'll be the only one there.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
It is:
Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.
Krsto
Well-known member
So God won't show up if you are by yourself?
Compare Matt 18:20 with John 15:5. See also Ecclesiastes 4:9-10, 12.
Great follow-up question! That passage has nothing to do with the popular mis-usage of it. Verses 18 and 19 define exactly what Jesus was talking about there. It's a statement specifically to the apostles about the authority He was giving them (to use in His absence).
Krsto
Well-known member
Exactly. I've had some of my most profound experiences with God when I went to an empty church building to get away from the distraction of other people, the radio, the refridgerator, the dog, etc.
God is omnipresent. There is nothing at all wrong with direct individual experiences with God (I've had my own) or with personal prayer time, but it is also true that God does not intend for us to be "lone rangers". Compare Matt 18:20 with John 15:5. See also Ecclesiastes 4:9-10, 12.
Hi, Paulos.
What are Matthew 18 verses 18 and 19 saying?
Thanks,
Randy
What are Matthew 18 verses 18 and 19 saying?
Thanks,
Randy
coulter4president
New member
The Roman Catholic Church says its a mortal sin to miss Mass on Sunday without a valid reason (like someone's very [physical] life is endangered)
In the OT ppl were stoned to death for violating the Sabbath..
shows how God feels about the subject... despite (Sardonic Comment Alert) the changes we modern, more "enlightened" folks have made...
Krsto
Well-known member
Why should we care what the RCC says about church attendence?
Krsto
Well-known member
I wasn't advocating Lone Rangerism. Just saying showing up at church on the "wrong" day might be a blessing.
That link shows the following:
- Barnes notes on the Bible
- Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
- Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
- Vincent's Word Studies
- Wesley's Notes
- Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
- Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
"For where two or three ... - This is a general assertion made to support the particular promise made Matthew 18:19 to his apostles. He affirms that wherever two or three are assembled together in his name, he is in the midst of them. In my name - That is, 1. By my authority, acting for me in my church. See John 10:25; John 16:23." |
All the others don't even worry about the context.
As I see it, the message is crystal clear when you look at the verse in light of the previous two passages.
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Matt. 18:18
Jesus is giving his chosen apostles authority to "bind" and to "loose" (like cutting someone off in the previous verses). He is telling them that they will be able to make decisions collectively that carry the weight of Jesus Himself and of the Father. Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching an thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. Matt. 18:29
If two or more of the chosen apostles agree on anything, it's as if the Father in heaven made the decision. Jesus is preparing them for when He would leave, giving them the authority to act in His absence. They would have the authority of the Father, and of the Son...For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Matt. 18:20
It would be as if Jesus were in their midst, making the very decision Himself.The passage is all about the authority He was giving them. It has nothing to do with any kind of exhortation for believers to gather together today so they can experience more of Jesus, or anything like that that we commonly hear.
My 2 cents...
Randy
Thanks for the clarification, Randy! I have often misused that verse.
Krsto
Well-known member
And worth every penny of it to be sure :thumb:
Thanks Randy. Now to address the Catholic version - I think there is something in the verb tenses to indicate that what is bound or loosed had to already be bound or loosed in heaven to have any effect. It doesn't give them permission to abuse their authority but only to act where God has already determined his will. God isn't going to just back up any decision when 2 or 3 are gathered, even if it's in his name.
It does if you want to be there the same day as everybody else.
Glad it was helpful. Thanks for your consideration.
keypurr
Well-known member
We are not discussing when Jesus was risen, we are discussing what the early church did. No scripture says that services were held on the first day of the week, they held God's sabbath law holy.
We are not discussing the day Christ arose, the Apostles kept the Sabbath.
It was the RCC that changed services to the first day of the week.
Notice the words "in the evening" that means the start of the first day and the Sabbath just ending.
Read verse 8
Act 20:8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
The lights were on meaning it was the end of the Sabbath.
Paul tells us that church donations were given on Sundays:
This has nothing to do with keeping a day holy. the Jews always put aside funds on the first day of the week.
Wrong again, the Sunday worship became law in the fourth century. this was done to apease the Pagans to create one religion for the empire. it was the RCC that changed the holy day to Sunday and they brag about doing so.
Here is more evidence on the origens of sunday worship.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/26015.htm
This link will take you to a Catholic web site, one that is considered acceptable authoritative information by Catholics.
Socrates Scholasticus
A historian of the Early Church, b. at Constantinople towards the end of the fourth century. Wrote this following History book
The book is called: “The Ecclesiastical History” by: Socrates Scholasticus
This quote is taken from book V chapter 22; “Since however no one can produce a written command as an authority, it is evident that the apostles left each one to his own free will in the matter, to the end that each might perform what is good not by constraint or necessity. Such is the difference in the churches on the subject of fasts. Nor is there less variation in regard to religious assemblies. For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this. The Egyptians in the neighborhood of Alexandria, and the inhabitants of Thebaïs, hold their religious assemblies on the Sabbath, but do not participate of the mysteries in the manner usual among Christians in general:”
It is clear from this above quote that in fact the popular day of worship even in the 4th century when this Historian lived was Saturday….Sabbath. He also points out that Rome and Alexandria were following some ancient traditions. You have to ask…what ancient traditions? Below are cannon laws showing the transference of Sabbath to Sunday observance.
Canon 16
The Gospels are to be read on the Sabbath [i.e. Saturday], with the other Scriptures.
For it is evident that by the intention of the Church the whole Divine Office was designed for the edification and instruction of the people, and especially was this the case on feast days, when the people were apt to be present in large numbers.
Canon 29
Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honoring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.
Canon 49
During Lent the Bread must not be offered except on the Sabbath Day and on the Lord's Day only.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3806.htm
With these 3 canons we see evidence of Rome still reading the gospels on Sabbath….we see them outlawing Sabbath Rest…we see them recognizing Sunday worship with the Sabbath importance. But again keep in mind….most of the Christians at that time did not accept the Roman Churches changes…and continued to keep the Sabbath Holy as God had commanded them to do.
God says to REMEMBER his Sabbath not the first day of the week.
Who do you follow? The creator or the church?
Peace
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