What are you 5 years old? You still believe you can sell your soul?
toldailytopic: Assisted suicide. Is it wrong?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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What are you 5 years old? You still believe you can sell your soul?
Nydhogg
New member
lightbringer
TOL Subscriber
Terminally ill, yet still able to live?
1. terminally ill adjective incurable, in extremis, in final stages, in terminus, near an end, seriously ill, termiially diseased
usually a six month period of time for the terminally ill person.
Some poor slob has been told by his/her doctor that they are terminal and that they will die in the next six months, during that six months their medical problem will continue to advance and their physical ability will deteriorate appreciably with each stage of advancement, the pain associated with this disease will continue to increase up to an unbearable level in the final stage.
2. To be alive
To continue to be alive
To support oneself
To reside
To conduct one's life in a particular manner
To pursue a positive, satisfying existence; enjoy life
To remain in human memory
This poor slob has or will shortly loose all of the above definitions of "To Live" except for the final "To remain in human memory" but not until he/she has had to under go the pain and agony and degradation of themselves and the manner that they have lived their life.
Why? What have they done to deserve to live out their final moments (hours, days, weeks or even months) in pain and suffering?
I might be able to understand it if this individual was hated by all (chalk it up to human cruelty and revenge) but it is not normally that way, it is usually some one we are close to, Mom, Dad, Sister, Brother, Grand Ma, Grand Pa, Wife, husband, Best friend. How could any one withhold the release that the individual is asking for?
Sounds like selfishness to me!
How delusional of you.
Is assisted suicide wrong? No. But think about it. Is suicide good, either? I don't like suicide. It happens. But are these even the right questions, right? It's like asking if you should give up on a sport game, a video game? What if Abraham Lincoln gave up before becoming president? What if the inventor of the light bulb gave up? We only have one life to live? Should we give up on life, on hope, on joy, and die, commit suicide, or partake in assisted suicide? Of course you can but should you? Of course you may feel led to do it, to that, or to do this, or to do that or to do whatever, it may happen, of course. But there are deeper questions in life we can be asking. How about, can we partake in assisted-living and encourage people to suffer until they die, right? Ok, that sounded bad. But what other choice do we have, right? I'm not fine with it but think about it.
But is God fine with it? How could He be? You can argue that it's doesn't matter since we are all stuck in sin, right? I believe we are born in sin due to the first two people on earth for the those things they did that put the sin curse on this earth. I believe we are sinners for who we are instead of merely what we do. You can argue that it doesn't matter what we do because almost anything we do may just be sin. I think sin is anything short of perfection. So why does it matter what we do? Because life can be better than what it is. If we trust in what Christ did for us then we shall be saved. And we are saved to serve, to follow Christ, to do good things, in doing the most good. But I don't think assisted suicide is always a good thing.
Besides, is it always for us to decide fate? Can we really play God? Do we really know who should die or not? Do we really know when somebody is hopeless and is going to die? We may think we know and we might be right sometimes. But what about miracles? If we kill the weak to spare them from suffering then we keep God from the ability to heal and to do miracles and to raise people up, you know? Or can God not heal people? Can God not do miracles? Is our God really that small? Is God really in that box of ours?
Is God not bigger than the boogie man?
Anyways, is assisted suicide wrong? Yes. But then again, you may still do it. God can forgive you if it really is wrong to partake in. For the most part, just make wise decisions. Ask a bunch of dedicated Jesus-followers, study the Bible and other things and pray and ask for an answer and try waiting a month or more before partaking in assisted suicide. Maybe, if it is wrong then maybe God will speak to you and urge you not to. If it is not wrong then maybe God will encourage you to do it. Can God no longer speak to us any more? I think He still can.
I am not encouraging that we just do as we feel and to blame those feelings or whatever on God and say that God or the Devil or that voice or Holy Spirit or thing or Demon or Angel inside our head our soul or body or tummy somehow made us do it or we were demon possessed or filled or drunk with Jesus or influenced by demons or tricked or whatever, you know, or not, right?
1. Assistant suicide wrong? Yes.
Yes is my short answer. But that is going to sound mean. You may hate me for that answer. But my other answer was the last two paragraphs above which suggests that you ask God to show you the right answer. Feel free to ask me to explain my answer, ok?
Hopefully you may see that it may just be wrong.
Will you think about that?
Can it not be wrong, right?
But is God fine with it? How could He be? You can argue that it's doesn't matter since we are all stuck in sin, right? I believe we are born in sin due to the first two people on earth for the those things they did that put the sin curse on this earth. I believe we are sinners for who we are instead of merely what we do. You can argue that it doesn't matter what we do because almost anything we do may just be sin. I think sin is anything short of perfection. So why does it matter what we do? Because life can be better than what it is. If we trust in what Christ did for us then we shall be saved. And we are saved to serve, to follow Christ, to do good things, in doing the most good. But I don't think assisted suicide is always a good thing.
Besides, is it always for us to decide fate? Can we really play God? Do we really know who should die or not? Do we really know when somebody is hopeless and is going to die? We may think we know and we might be right sometimes. But what about miracles? If we kill the weak to spare them from suffering then we keep God from the ability to heal and to do miracles and to raise people up, you know? Or can God not heal people? Can God not do miracles? Is our God really that small? Is God really in that box of ours?
Is God not bigger than the boogie man?
Anyways, is assisted suicide wrong? Yes. But then again, you may still do it. God can forgive you if it really is wrong to partake in. For the most part, just make wise decisions. Ask a bunch of dedicated Jesus-followers, study the Bible and other things and pray and ask for an answer and try waiting a month or more before partaking in assisted suicide. Maybe, if it is wrong then maybe God will speak to you and urge you not to. If it is not wrong then maybe God will encourage you to do it. Can God no longer speak to us any more? I think He still can.
I am not encouraging that we just do as we feel and to blame those feelings or whatever on God and say that God or the Devil or that voice or Holy Spirit or thing or Demon or Angel inside our head our soul or body or tummy somehow made us do it or we were demon possessed or filled or drunk with Jesus or influenced by demons or tricked or whatever, you know, or not, right?
1. Assistant suicide wrong? Yes.
Yes is my short answer. But that is going to sound mean. You may hate me for that answer. But my other answer was the last two paragraphs above which suggests that you ask God to show you the right answer. Feel free to ask me to explain my answer, ok?
Hopefully you may see that it may just be wrong.
Will you think about that?
Can it not be wrong, right?
What does God think?
What does God think?
After reading everybody's posts, I think we have failed to ask what God thinks about all of this, right?
Choosing suicide or assistant-suicide or pain killers or desert are decisions we make according to emotions, to our feelings, to our desire for joy, for pleasure, because we are all obsessed with avoiding pain and bad things. But in doing so we forget to ask God what He thinks about it. If you don't believe in following God then that is fine. But if you do then you should consider doing what pleases Him, which is to live life even like Job did in pain.
.
.
.
Suicide?
Suicide wrong?
Why is assistant-suicide wrong?
Here are seven reasons as following ("Because......"):
1. Because it's a decision stimulated and formed based off pleasure or desire or urgency to escape pain. If you believe in Heaven then you could be tempted into suicide because that would get you into Heaven so you could leave the pain of living in mortal bodies (unless if you can't get into Heaven if you commit suicide: but I think suicide is a sin that God can forgive and that He did pay on the cross already). Anyways, no pain then no gain. People are going to hate me for this one. They are going to argue that I make decisions for pleasure all the time. I try not to still. They will argue that I don't know what I'm talking about and that when or if I get into a life-threatening situation where I might have to request assistant-suicide, that I will. You may think that it's possible. Of course that is possible for me, you, or anybody, and any one of us, or somebody that one of us or friend of ours or a friend of theirs, may just do, indeed. When or if we do partake in that, we may feel justify in doing such a deed. Those are only feelings. But we are all so dominated by our feelings. But what does God think? Some of us don't really care what God thinks. Or we don't care about what God can do.
2. Because it lacks patient. Have patient and maybe God will heal you or the sick person.
3. Because it lacks miracles or the healing touches of our Savior who can heal us if we have the patience to wait for Him to heal us in His timing. Want to argue about His timing or about whether or not He can or still does or will or is healing people? Ok, you can say what you want but I've seen Him heal me and heal people all the time. All the time God is good and God is good all the time.
4. Because it lacks purpose because Romans 8:28 suggests that all things do work together for those who are following Him and that God will use everything to make the world a better place and to help other people as did the life of Job does help us all because that is what God does and that is what God is doing and we should never question God's ability to make things out of our messes or out of our pain or whatever.
5. Because it's not about us and God may just need us or other people to stay on this earth until it's time for them go and if they are not saved then there is still time for them to get saved and if they are saved then maybe God still want them to live longer to inspire other people towards something or to later heal them or something, you know?
6. Because it may lead to other things because if assistant-suicide is ok then abortion may just be ok and homosexuality may just be ok and murder may just be ok or little white lies may just be ok or doing as we wish may be ok or lying or stealing or any of the ten commandments or this thing or that thing or anything that will give us pleasure or ease our pain, right? You may just hate me for some of the things I just wrote in this paragraph especially. I apologize but you have to understand what I mean and why I write what I write.
7. Because I love the number seven and because you may never know the alternatives to a get-out-of-jail cards, you know, right? Is life just about us, about how we feel, about what we want, are we just our own gods, can we just do what we want, worship ourselves, you know? Do we only value ourselves, is that the only thing that matters now?
I might just want to argue that not being God is a sin. That almost anything is wrong or sinful because even when we try to do good we fail because we are sinners unless if we are saved. But you can argue that assistant suicide is necessary in certain situations. I want to agree but I don't want to look at it from that kind of perspective or point of view. I want to look at these things from God's point of view regardless of whether you believe in following Him or not because I think He knows better than we do. Because it's all about Him, right?
Please ask me to explain farther if you are not satisfied with these seven reasons, ok? I would love to expand about all of this and write books about these things and draw out illustrations and parables all about these things because I want people to see what I see from my Attic.
Isn't it all about Him, not us, right?
What does God think?
After reading everybody's posts, I think we have failed to ask what God thinks about all of this, right?
Choosing suicide or assistant-suicide or pain killers or desert are decisions we make according to emotions, to our feelings, to our desire for joy, for pleasure, because we are all obsessed with avoiding pain and bad things. But in doing so we forget to ask God what He thinks about it. If you don't believe in following God then that is fine. But if you do then you should consider doing what pleases Him, which is to live life even like Job did in pain.
.
.
.
Suicide?
Suicide wrong?
Why is assistant-suicide wrong?
Here are seven reasons as following ("Because......"):
1. Because it's a decision stimulated and formed based off pleasure or desire or urgency to escape pain. If you believe in Heaven then you could be tempted into suicide because that would get you into Heaven so you could leave the pain of living in mortal bodies (unless if you can't get into Heaven if you commit suicide: but I think suicide is a sin that God can forgive and that He did pay on the cross already). Anyways, no pain then no gain. People are going to hate me for this one. They are going to argue that I make decisions for pleasure all the time. I try not to still. They will argue that I don't know what I'm talking about and that when or if I get into a life-threatening situation where I might have to request assistant-suicide, that I will. You may think that it's possible. Of course that is possible for me, you, or anybody, and any one of us, or somebody that one of us or friend of ours or a friend of theirs, may just do, indeed. When or if we do partake in that, we may feel justify in doing such a deed. Those are only feelings. But we are all so dominated by our feelings. But what does God think? Some of us don't really care what God thinks. Or we don't care about what God can do.
2. Because it lacks patient. Have patient and maybe God will heal you or the sick person.
3. Because it lacks miracles or the healing touches of our Savior who can heal us if we have the patience to wait for Him to heal us in His timing. Want to argue about His timing or about whether or not He can or still does or will or is healing people? Ok, you can say what you want but I've seen Him heal me and heal people all the time. All the time God is good and God is good all the time.
4. Because it lacks purpose because Romans 8:28 suggests that all things do work together for those who are following Him and that God will use everything to make the world a better place and to help other people as did the life of Job does help us all because that is what God does and that is what God is doing and we should never question God's ability to make things out of our messes or out of our pain or whatever.
5. Because it's not about us and God may just need us or other people to stay on this earth until it's time for them go and if they are not saved then there is still time for them to get saved and if they are saved then maybe God still want them to live longer to inspire other people towards something or to later heal them or something, you know?
6. Because it may lead to other things because if assistant-suicide is ok then abortion may just be ok and homosexuality may just be ok and murder may just be ok or little white lies may just be ok or doing as we wish may be ok or lying or stealing or any of the ten commandments or this thing or that thing or anything that will give us pleasure or ease our pain, right? You may just hate me for some of the things I just wrote in this paragraph especially. I apologize but you have to understand what I mean and why I write what I write.
7. Because I love the number seven and because you may never know the alternatives to a get-out-of-jail cards, you know, right? Is life just about us, about how we feel, about what we want, are we just our own gods, can we just do what we want, worship ourselves, you know? Do we only value ourselves, is that the only thing that matters now?
I might just want to argue that not being God is a sin. That almost anything is wrong or sinful because even when we try to do good we fail because we are sinners unless if we are saved. But you can argue that assistant suicide is necessary in certain situations. I want to agree but I don't want to look at it from that kind of perspective or point of view. I want to look at these things from God's point of view regardless of whether you believe in following Him or not because I think He knows better than we do. Because it's all about Him, right?
Please ask me to explain farther if you are not satisfied with these seven reasons, ok? I would love to expand about all of this and write books about these things and draw out illustrations and parables all about these things because I want people to see what I see from my Attic.
Isn't it all about Him, not us, right?
First of all, a dying person is not necessarily a "poor slob". The dying person may wish to spend his/her final days in communion with God, family and friends. Pain relieving medication does work.
It is one thing to decide to end one's own life. It is another issue entirely! to ask one of your loved one's to murder you.
But these issues are not exactly spelled out in the Bible (for those who really want to live according to that) because each situation depends and if God's principles are inside of us then do pray we make the right decisions in these matters which, I'd rather that we don't play God in ending people's lives for seven reasons or more reasons because we just may never know but then again, really, you may find yourself in a tough situation like that and you better pray you make the right decision to partake in assistant-suicide or suicide or in painkillers or in whatever, may God give us all wisdom in these matters, one way or another, because these issues really can go either ways depending on so many variables, right?
Can't assistant-suicide be good and/or bad?
Can't it be both good and bad at the same time?
Can you have your cake and eat it too?
Nydhogg
New member
You're entitled not to request a mercy kill when you're agonizing. It's your life.
I, however, WILL request the mercy kill.
And nothing bad should happen to those who honor my last wishes
.
Should Assistant-Suicide be legal? Yes.
Should Assistant-Suicide be legal? Yes.
Never mind whether or not asking for a mercy kill is wrong or not, never mind whether or not assistant-suicide is sin or not, or whether suicide is wrong or not, or whether this is bad or that is bad or not, because of another issue may occur whether we like it or not, and that issue is abortion, yes, I am sorry.
If it is ok to end life then it is ok to end life and if it is ok to end life then at what point is it ok to end life and if we choose to be ok with ending life under consent for a mercy kill which may or may not be fine depending on the situation, then would ending a life of a baby or a not-born thing through the consent of the mother or parent or guardian or grandmother or whatever (since babies or kids don't really have say or consent of their own lives or deaths until they are 18 normally in the USA), right, depending on our views of abortion, it just might be a slippery slope towards allowing what may or may not be abortion, right?
I know this has nothing to do with abortion and that a mercy kill may or may not be necessary under certain factors and that these kind of things or freedoms may or may not matter to some of us especially since we want our assistant in the suicide to be free from any crimes in partaking in such a thing, and I understand those concerns, and I understand that assistant-suicide may or may not have anything to do with abortion or not, but at the same time, despite of that, not everybody will, not everybody can, and this will be then a stumbling-block for some who may or may not really fall to doing abortion instead adoption or taking a pill or condom or whatever, you know, some people may, and we will allow people to make those decisions due to this issue, right?
Should assistant-suicide be legal for every country in the world? Yes. But is it also wrong? Yes. But we may or may not just need it to be legal and we may or may not need to partake in it.
But it may or may not influence or encourage or assist in some kind of secret increase or change of opinion that we have towards other matters like abortion for example.
We may or may not choose a mercy kill. That should be legal. Did I just write that? Some people will like my acceptance while others won't. Am I acting like a politician now? I am against it generically speaking but there are specific situations that may call for it. We also must maintain freewill. Legalizing it maintains freedom.
1. Assistant Suicide wrong? Yes.
2. Should Assistant Suicide be legal? Yes.
Do you want me to farther explain such contrary conclusions?
Should Assistant-Suicide be legal? Yes.
You're entitled not to request a mercy kill when you're agonizing. It's your life. I, however, WILL request the mercy kill. And nothing bad should happen to those who honor my last wishes
Never mind whether or not asking for a mercy kill is wrong or not, never mind whether or not assistant-suicide is sin or not, or whether suicide is wrong or not, or whether this is bad or that is bad or not, because of another issue may occur whether we like it or not, and that issue is abortion, yes, I am sorry.
If it is ok to end life then it is ok to end life and if it is ok to end life then at what point is it ok to end life and if we choose to be ok with ending life under consent for a mercy kill which may or may not be fine depending on the situation, then would ending a life of a baby or a not-born thing through the consent of the mother or parent or guardian or grandmother or whatever (since babies or kids don't really have say or consent of their own lives or deaths until they are 18 normally in the USA), right, depending on our views of abortion, it just might be a slippery slope towards allowing what may or may not be abortion, right?
I know this has nothing to do with abortion and that a mercy kill may or may not be necessary under certain factors and that these kind of things or freedoms may or may not matter to some of us especially since we want our assistant in the suicide to be free from any crimes in partaking in such a thing, and I understand those concerns, and I understand that assistant-suicide may or may not have anything to do with abortion or not, but at the same time, despite of that, not everybody will, not everybody can, and this will be then a stumbling-block for some who may or may not really fall to doing abortion instead adoption or taking a pill or condom or whatever, you know, some people may, and we will allow people to make those decisions due to this issue, right?
Should assistant-suicide be legal for every country in the world? Yes. But is it also wrong? Yes. But we may or may not just need it to be legal and we may or may not need to partake in it.
But it may or may not influence or encourage or assist in some kind of secret increase or change of opinion that we have towards other matters like abortion for example.
We may or may not choose a mercy kill. That should be legal. Did I just write that? Some people will like my acceptance while others won't. Am I acting like a politician now? I am against it generically speaking but there are specific situations that may call for it. We also must maintain freewill. Legalizing it maintains freedom.
1. Assistant Suicide wrong? Yes.
2. Should Assistant Suicide be legal? Yes.
Do you want me to farther explain such contrary conclusions?
I agree. Who would desire agony for a loved one?
Which makes the reluctance of some to allow their loved ones to chose when to die completely misguided and ultimately selfish.
You're entitled not to request a mercy kill when you're agonizing. It's your life.
I, however, WILL request the mercy kill.
And nothing bad should happen to those who honor my last wishes
It is a matter of personal conscience. Inside myself I would know I had ended a life. I would have to live with that.
If I really wanted to end my suffering I would do it myself while I still had the wit to know that the end was near.
lightbringer
TOL Subscriber
I never said that I would relieve a person of their choice, if they wish to continue to live on pain relievers for what ever time they have left, that is their choice, whether it is to commune with their God or to purge their souls of sin through suffering, it is their choice.
The "poor slob" comment was towards that individual laying in bed, asking to be allowed to bring his/her life to and end so that they do not suffer further....while those around them debate about the morality of allowing them to pass on.
Yes, pain relievers work...you can go to a hospice and see that they do. Persons in the final stages of a disease such as cancer are in constant pain. As long as the last dosage of medication is still working they seem as if they are not suffering but as with any drug it does wear off and you can see the effect as the pain becomes more apparent to the individual. Laying there asleep, then they start to move around in bed, still asleep but the pain reliever is wearing off, when the pain becomes more apparent they come to consciousness and start feeling for the button (either to call for a nurse or one that administers another dose by pushing the button) in order to relieve the pain. These machines that control the pain reliever are adjustable, why? So that the individual cannot over dose accidentally, even if its no accident!
One moment we are talking to an individual that has made their own choices thought out their life, choices we may disagree with and we may even voice that disagreement to that person, but we know that the choice is ultimately theirs. I would not take their right of choice away from them!
At this stage of life I have considered this and have had my attorney draw up my "Living Will", one that is written in a manner to prevent anyone from making these choices for me. I have done this out of love for my family, they will never be put in the place of responsibility for making that type of decision about my life.
Nor will I allow the medical industry to drag this out for the sake of? Money? Legalities?
I wouldn't be much of a father if I put my children in this situation!
I agree with you. My husband passed away at home last December. He had metastatic adenocarcinoma and died within six months of being diagnosed. We had discussed choices and he said he wished to live but be kept pain free. His wishes were honored.
I'm sorry if I sounded testy. You are one of my favorite people on here and I do not wish to offend you.
So. Are all those that condemn assisted suicide sadists then? Taking pleasure in other people's pain? I mean, neither of you specified so it seems you're speaking generally about all.
:mmph:
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