Cute - you can't answer various Mid-Actsers - trouble you fester - attack them, and now have the nerve to cry foul.
Sssssssssss
Theology Club: Today Many in the Neo-MAD Camp are King James Only
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Cute - you can't answer various Mid-Actsers - trouble you fester - attack them, and now have the nerve to cry foul.
Sssssssssss
And, you're an embarrassment to GM. Therefore, you're in pretty
much of a bind. If you should lose, ALL of my respect, I pity you.
Jerry, I am neither MAD nor KJVO. I happen to think the KJV is not a bad translation. It had some faults, like pretty much all translations. Whilst I might join you in being anti-KJVO and sort-of anti-MAD, I'm not trying to grind any axes about it. Just trying to be helpful in pointing out obvious points from the text. Feel free however to carry on grinding out nonsense to whoever has time on their hands to listen - because I spent some time researching the background as I felt it was an interesting question but it ceases to be so and I have no desire to waste any more time if you can't listen and accept basic stuff due to your ulterior motives.
Yep. He's pretty bad off.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I answered every single point which you made. Instead of answering mine you speak of my "ulterior motives."
You are obviously confused about what is considered "basic stuff" on this subject.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
As usual you say nothing intelligent on the subject of the threads which I begin. instead, you come on my threads in order to attack my character.
if you think that I am wrong about what I said about the subject of this thread then let's hear it. Attacking my character will not prove that what I said is in error.
Jerry, you didn't 'answer every single point I made'. You misunderstood most of it and just repeated what you said before. Other people understood it - I don't see why you can't. I can't be bothered to reiterate it just for you in case you come up with yet more misunderstandings that stray ever further from the issue. If you want me to interact sensibly with you, you need to be sensible too.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
OK, I apologize if I misunderstood you. But this disagreement can be resolved quickly if you will just answer two question for me. Do you think that the words in "bold" in this translation at Matthew 26:17 from the KJV is referring to the same "feast" which I "bolded" as Leviticus 23:4-5?
"Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?" (Mt.26:17; KJV).
"In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread" (Lev.23:4-5; KJV).
If your answer is "no" then tell me why you think that. If you answer is "yes" then tell me why you think that the first day of the feast of unleavened bread preceded the Passover since other passages from the Scriptures reveal that the Passover preceded the first day of that feast.
Thanks!
I already answered this with reference to Luke 22:1. And as I said in my first post on the subject, the issue is not whether this is compatible with other scriptures: the translation is irrefutable, it is not the translator's job to explain why it is different or translate it in another way. Even so, a perfectly good explanation is available and yet you refuse to accept it.
Your first priority, if you disagree, is to show that the translation is incorrect. Clearly you cannot do this because the translation is pretty good. This is indisputable. There is no point in you repeating yourself about how it conflicts with this or that other scripture unless you can first show that the text doesn't say that it is the feast of unleavened bread, which you can't, because it does.
Tell me that you understand this basic point. If you instead harp on about Leviticus, blah, blah, then you haven't understood it. So please don't lie.
But if you do understand this point then why haven't you yourself provided an explanation for the discrepancy? I don't have a problem with it but if you do then surely it is your onus, not mine.
You sure did.
I completely agree with your conclusion that either Passover or Unleavened Bread can be presented to contain both.
Exodus 12:17-18 points out the same thing.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Maybe Jerry needs to switch over to his "breach" of covenant argument next, and how the KJB botched the verse.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Here is what you said about that:
So when we examine the context of what is said at Matthew 26:17 the subject is not really really the Passover Seder but instead the "overall feast of unleavened bread"?:
"Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover? And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples. And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the Passover" (Mt.26:17-19).
Is that what you are saying? That every time the word "Passover" is used in these verses it is referring to "the overall feast of Unleavened Bread"?
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I've already answered this. Stop being a dork. You can't make the text say something it doesn't. Your problem is you don't like what it says. If you want to retranslate passages differently to what hundreds of translators have translated before you, then you ought to have some proper knowledge of ancient Greek. When you've done 2 years of full time study on that subject alone, then I'll listen to you. And I will say this to others as well, just as I already have done. You are charlatans. You think that because you have read something on the internet, that it qualifies you for making up your own silly ideas that you then go and teach to others. You don't even realise what you are doing quite often, so deceived are you. Your standards are so low if a bus ran over you, it wouldn't make a bump. You have no concept of real knowledge and you can't imagine that other people are actually many levels of intelligence and knowledge above you. The problem is not your lack of knowledge or your below average intelligence. I have known plenty of people in this category who are the most delightful Christians you could ever want to meet. Your real problem is humility - the lack of it.
So along with all the charlatans, just be warned that if I come aross you, I will call you up when you spout nonsense. Do yourselves a favour and triple check your nonsense before you say it and remember, when you are tempted to keep repeating yourselves as if nothing has changed or as if I hadn't said anything, even though what I said was clear to everyone, that you are by your own actions making youselves into the very people spoken of in Proverbs, the fools who love to keep on spouting their foolery to show everyone how idiotic they are. Because that's what fools do. Their rear passages are actually jealous of the amount of waste matter coming out of their mouths.
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Here is what you said about that:
So when we examine the context of what is said at Matthew 26:17 the subject is not really really the Passover Seder but instead the "overall feast of unleavened bread"?:
"Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover? And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples. And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the Passover" (Mt.26:17-19).
Is that what you are saying? That every time the word "Passover" is used in these verses it is referring to "the overall feast of Unleavened Bread"?
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Couldn't agree more Dessert Reign,
At the same time, repetition of a thing is not only the mother of skill, but often necessary when attempting to get one's point across.
At least for the sake of willing minds; that the old "oh, now I get what you're saying, you're right; its right in front of me, lol" be allowed to kick in.
Again, though the first day of the feast of unleavened bread does not precede the feast of Passover, at the same time, within Jewish culture - all the way back to way back when - at times, either the words Unleavened Bread or Passover are used when referring to both.
The reason for this is a very simple one and is supported not only by that passage in Matthew 26, itself, exactly as rendered, but by other passages in Scripture.
In fact, there are many examples in life where that kind of a description is used of more than the specific day itself.
When attempting to sort out a thing, the more astute will often ask what the obtuse never appear to.
All one need do is ask oneself 'what might be other examples of this?' (that one is attempting to get a handle on, be that as to the sense of any passage, or as to possible examples from other aspects where a same kind of thing is evident).
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
"Let us take a look and consider this, however..."
I wouldn't always view that in the same category right off, without the following qualifier - it depends on what the recurrent pattern of the particular user of such wording has proven over time their particular intent has been.
In fact, given that qualifier, I wouldn't view that in the same category even by its repeated user. Their very next use of it just might accompany a changed heart.
Acts 9:
26. And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
Call the wolf a wolf in sheep's clothing, until...
No, Jerry.
No one has said that every single time the word "Passover" is used, that it is referring to the whole festival.
What has been said, and what has been shown to you per scripture, is that there are times when "Passover" is referring to the whole week (7 days) festival, and that there are times when "Unleavened Bread" is referred to as the whole week.
Just as Luke and Exodus tell us.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
That is now what I asked Desert Reign. Here is what I actually said:
So when we examine the context of what is said at Matthew 26:17 the subject is not really really the Passover Seder but instead the "overall feast of unleavened bread"?:
Is that what you are saying? That every time the word "Passover" is used in these verses it is referring to "the overall feast of Unleavened Bread"?
"Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover? And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples. And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the Passover" (Mt.26:17-19).
Is that what you are saying? That every time the word "Passover" is used in these verses it is referring to "the overall feast of Unleavened Bread"?
I asked if every time the word "Passover" is used in the verses which I quoted is it referring to "the overall feast of Unleavened Bread."
What is your opinion?
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