ECT TLO comes to TOL

Redeemed-777

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If I recall correctly, 'twas T. L. Osborne who did some lengthy research
and came to the conclusion that in such verses as John 3:16, 5:24, etc.:
"to believe" ... pisteou ... really means "to believe, trust, follow, and obey".

And I concur ... it must mean exactly that because of the rest of the NT.

Foist of oil, "believe" in the above verses is in the continuous sense,
i.e. it is not a one-time deal.
There are about 10 verses which warn that one must continue in his/her faith
... until the end of life ... to receive eternal life.

And from elsewhere in da planet earth ...

In the language and mindset of the Hebrew followers of Yahweh,
belief and obedience are tied together.

You cant have one without the other:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers,
and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him.
Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently
(often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) -
1) to hear, listen to, obey


Butski, Christians today are taught that God only judges dem for rewards! ... lol
 
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Totton Linnet

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T.L. preached a great deal in his early days about faith, and especially putting faith into action, I have acquired many of his early sermons. In his later years he stressed much more grace.

But when you talk about faith as an ongoing thing you miss the mark somewhat, for faith is eternal. That means it is active and ongoing but it means also that it cannot fail. When we trust God and are saved it is an eternal decision.

This is what does our heads in about you guys, for we believe God to SAVE us, we believe the life He gives is ETERNAL life.

When we receive those things they pass on from faith to certain knowledge for we have them, we are in full conscious possession.

UNmovable, UNshakable As certain as God is certain. The simplicity of this is in the words themselves.
 

Redeemed-777

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When we receive those things they pass on from faith to certain knowledge for we have them,
we are in full conscious possession. UNmovable, UNshakable As certain as God is certain.
The simplicity of this is in the words themselves.
Yes you are correct, all of this applies to all of the many dozens of
WARNINGS about the necessity to obey the commands, stop sinning, etc.

Yes you are correct, as much as I would like to ...
I just cannot see these WARNINGS as concerning the gaining/losing of rewards!

To me, it's a matter of whether we are willing to ignore the Lord's warnings,
or worse yet, to call Him (and the epistle writers) bluffers, deceivers, or liars!
I iz not.

The free gift of grace is initially given with the understanding that
believers will do their very best to be obedient to the Lord.

After the initial unwarranted gift of grace, it's all conditional.
Are both God's grace and Jesus' enormous sacrifice
really appreciated enough for one to be obedient?

OT obedience to the Law was NOT to be done out of appreciation or love.
NT obedience to Jesus .................IS to be done out of great appreciation and love.


What does the new covenant believer possess to help him/her to succeed?
Only the perfect trinity of a new nature, the indwelling Holy Spirit, and the Scriptures!

 
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Totton Linnet

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If it is conditional in any degree it is not grace, YOU are accusing the Lord of being a bluffer, deceiver...promising grace when all the time there conditions attached.

Conditions annul grace...why can't you see so simple a truth.

But I go much, much further and with Paul I say to you that your attempts at obeying the law will rob you of Christ's blessings. It is disobedience.

The LAW came from Moses but GRACE and truth came from Jesus Christ...grace upon grace. Justice is on the side of law, if you set yourself to obey it then all failure must be avenged. But truth, verity is on the side of grace.

Be filled with the Spirit and you will not be fulfilling the desires of the flesh.
 

Redeemed-777

New member
If it is conditional in any degree it is not grace ...
This is all very nice, but ...
you do not address the 100 dire warnings!
Some of which actually speak of losing eternal life!

Are they about rewards?
Or are they bluffs, deceptions, or lies?

News Flash! ... They are NOT to be ignored.

Now, about the other 100 ... the exhortations and encouragements!
These may be only for rewards.

Why cannot you see that ...
GRACE is simply that anyone has a chance at all of gaining heaven!

What could be more obvious? ...
GRACE is the free gift of OPPORTUNITY!
 
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Redeemed-777

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Post a couple, the ones you suppose are most dire...only a couple mind at a time.
You've seen 'em all ... countless times ... and ignored 'em!
They're in your NT.

Me ... my current top 10 favs keep changin'.
'Cause we find more and more all the time.

E.G. Paul loved to hide 'em amongst his exhortations and edifications.

They're there for the Holy Spirit to reveal.
 

Totton Linnet

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You must know that I believe in holiness of life, the question is how is it to be realized. Not by obeying laws, and there is a way of taking the gospel and making law out of it.

Holiness comes just exactly how salvation comes...or any of God's blessings, you see it in the word you identify it as YOURS in Christ Jesus, paid for at the cross...and you take it.

That is how healing is received.

You have been around long enough to know that men have been in the ministry, accomplishing mighty things while living in sin...right? I won't mention names. But then suddenly the thing becomes public.

Now we see those ministers shamed and broken and they are never the same again...what? what changed?

What changed was the people's faith in them changed. Ought never to have been reposed in them in the first place. But people were staggered in their faith.

But they must have started out holy to have gotten such powerful ministries and I say to you that if it were possible that after they were exposed in their sin or failure, if it were possible that people were not staggered in their faith then they would continue on in powerful ministries.

If our faith was in God's word and not focused on the minister then I would not be staggered.
 
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Totton Linnet

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If I recall correctly, 'twas T. L. Osborne who did some lengthy research
and came to the conclusion that in such verses as John 3:16, 5:24, etc.:
"to believe" ... pisteou ... really means "to believe, trust, follow, and obey".

And I concur ... it must mean exactly that because of the rest of the NT.

Foist of oil, "believe" in the above verses is in the continuous sense,
i.e. it is not a one-time deal.
There are about 10 verses which warn that one must continue in his/her faith
... until the end of life ... to receive eternal life.

And from elsewhere in da planet earth ...

In the language and mindset of the Hebrew followers of Yahweh,
belief and obedience are tied together.

You cant have one without the other:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers,
and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him.
Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently
(often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) -
1) to hear, listen to, obey


Butski, Christians today are taught that God only judges dem for rewards! ... lol

You miss it, truly you miss it. Faith is in the continuous state [and I did not need to look it up] because when we receive it faith becomes our continuous state of being....when we trusted that first time it was ALL time and eternity...we have trusted our very selves to Jesus Christ, God's Son....He will not fail.

Guidance


I just love it
 
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revpete

New member
You miss it, truly you miss it. Faith is in the continuous state [and I did not need to look it up] because when we receive it faith becomes our continuous state of being....when we trusted that first time it was ALL time and eternity...we have trusted our very selves to Jesus Christ, God's Son....He will not fail.

salvation


I just love it

I agree but we mustn't fall into the trap of abusing Divine grace as Paul warns us. Still, sound teaching and personal bible study is the answer there. Yes, He saves and He keeps!
 

Totton Linnet

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A Pentecostal preaching in Philidelphia

A Pentecostal preaching in Philidelphia

A Pentecostal preaching in Philidelphia.

It's a great privilege for God's servant to be in the city of Brotherly love, to walk into this building tonight and to sense the marvellous presence of the Holy Spirit.

And tonight we are going to talk about "how to take the limit off of God"

In the 8th chapter of the Gospel of St. Matthew, we are reading from the 5th verse.

And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum there came unto Him a Centurian beseeching Him and saying "Lord my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy grieviously tormented" and Jesus saith unto him "I will come and heal him"


Before I read the rest of this scripture it is very important that I stop and tell you this tonight, you cannot change the will of a person once that individual has already died, you might try, you might go to court to try to break a will but it is a very difficult thing to do in the natural world.

2,000 years ago Jesus Christ gave us His will, He sealed His will, and He sealed the testament of His will with His own precious blood, included I that will that Jesus left us is the healing of our physical bodies in the atonement.

The bible said that Jesus Christ came here for a purpose and that purpose was to destroy the work of the devil.

There is a marvellous thing about God, He is not finicky, He does not change. Men change, theologies change, denominational structures change, but ladies and gentlemen the God who created this world...

The Lord Jesus Christ, who thought it not robbery to be co-equal with God but humbled Himself and made Himself of no reputation and took upon Him the form of flesh and blood and came into this world for the purpose of defeating and destroying the works of the devil, and the works of the devil are 1st sin 2nd sickness and thirdly death....

3 things that God never intended for man to ever possess, God never intended for man to have an evil mind and a tongue that cursed and swore, God never intended for man to be sick, sickness came as a result of man's disobedience through sin, and God never intended that man should ever die...that's right

When you look at this little Jew preacher I want you know that God never intended for your hair to get bald, your eyes to grow dim, your ears to wax heavy. God intended that man should live forever and never die. He was created perfect, in the image of God.

Now I can't help it if you have been brought up Baptist, or if you are in a backslidden Pentecostal church where your preacher doesn't know how to pray

But that doesn't alter the will of God

There is no doctrine of the Baptist church, no doctrine of the Pentecostal church, no doctrine of the Catholics, the Methodists, the Presbyterians, the Episcopalians that can alter the word of God

And God's will is that we be in health and prosper

And God didn't say to put an "if" in there, there is no way for you to ever be able to pray the prayer of faith as long as you keep and "if" in there, "if it be your will God heal me, if it be Thy will provide" God tells us exactly what His express will is and Jesus came into this world to fulfil the express will of God.

That's what it is all about.

And do you know why I can look at you tonight and pray the prayer of faith in this building, nothing wavering, because I know it is God's will. You say "how do you know? did God tell you? yes He did...He told me right here in this book that hold in my hand. Somebody said "well I don't understand it how sometimes good, well intentioned people get sick and die, well we just have to be honest and say "Lord we don't have all the answers"

But let's stop putting an "if" where God doesn't put an "if"

He says "I WILL come and heal him." His will hasn't changed, men have changed, the church that used to believe in certain doctrines which have become moderised, those churches have changed but God hasn't changed He says "I WILL" He says "I WILL".......not "IF.....I WILL"

The Centurian answered and said "Lord I am not worthy that Thou shouldest enter under my roof but speak the word only and my servant will be healed, for I am a man under authority having soldiers under me, I say to one man come and he cometh, to another go and he goeth, to my servant I say do this and he doeth it" and when Jesus heard it He marvelled and said to them who followed "verily I have not found so great faith in Israel"

And He said I want you to know that I know what I am talking about, if you don't think that I know what I am talking about I just want you to know that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God, and all things were made by Him and without Him wasn't anything made that was made and the Word became flesh and I'm that Word, I was before the beginning, I made the beginning....

When God led the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt I was the great "I am" I was the one who was in the pillar of cloud by day, I was the one who was in the pillar of fire by night, I was the one who was in the rod that opened up the red sea, I was the one who fed the Jews in the wilderness, I was the one who rolled back the river Jordan for Joshua, I was one who quenched the violence of fire for Shadrach Meshac and Abidnego, I was the one who stopped the mouths of the lions for Daniel.

He said if you have any doubts don't ever doubt because I am that I am that I am that I am....and I'll tell you NOBODY ever had faith like this man.

And Jesus said to the Centurian "go thy way, as thou hast believed, so shall it be done unto thee"
 
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Totton Linnet

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A Pentecostal preaching in Philidelphia continued.

This miracle concerns a Centurian, by virtue of his position he had authority over a battalion of 100 men were under his authority. He had a servant who the bible describes as having a Palsy. When we think of Palsy we think of it as a shaking sickness, but the actual condition that this man had was not a shaking sickness but he was actually home on his bed paralysed. His situation was helpless, hopeless, impossible.

Impossible only so far as man is concerned because with God ALL things are possible.

I have no argument with my backslidden theological friends, you say "why do you always pick on the theologians?" because they pick on the people, and we have blind leaders of blind, and Jesus said "ye shall know the truth and the truth will set you free"
And the real basis of their unbelief is not that they do not believe in divine healing, the real basis of their unbelief is not that they do not believe in the power of the blood but the real basis of heir unbelief is the fact that they are unregenerate men and women who do not believe that Jesus Christ was indeed born of a virgin the Son of the Living God.

That's the whole crux.

It's like my Baptist friend who came to me and said "don't you know that the days of miracles is past? that 2,000 years ago the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased with the early church?"

Now if I could not theologically PROVE, doctrinally PROVE the doctrine of divine healing in the atonement of Jesus Christ, if I could never prove it, if I could never prove it, I would still believe, not in a day of miracles but I would believe in a God of miracle working power. You say "why?"

Because there are too many scriptures in the bible which tell us "call and I'll answer, seek and ye shall find, knock and the door will be opened unto you...the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much in the Kingdom of heaven" one little scripture I Ephesians alone would be enough for this little Jew preacher to believe God that God could split the heavens and give me anything I would ask Him for, never mind just a little physical healing

Our God is able

To do what? our God is able to do exceedingly, abundantly, above and beyond what we are able to ask or think. Put THAT in your theological test tube.

He is able

Let them heat the furnace 10 times hotter, little Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego just want you to know while you are putting these chains on us "our God is able" Not a day of miracles, a God of miracle working power.

You would the king was the one going into the lions den not Daniel when he turned to the king and said "don't you fret, my God is able"
Not a day of miracles, a God of miracle working power, not a hang up on some denominational doctrine

A living God, A living God, A living God.
 
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Totton Linnet

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Continued...

The Centurian has come down to us as a man of great humility for his saying "Lord I am not worthy that Thou shouldest come under my roof" I must say I have never met a humble Italian, they do not so much come out of their mother's womb they swagger out.

But Jesus did not praise the Centurian's humility but his faith, He said "I have not found so great faith no, not in Israel" and He said "I know what I am talking about because I AM that I AM that I AM"

The Centurian drew a parallel he looked at Jesus and said "Lord You are like me"

Now THAT is more like an Italian

He said "Lord do you see these bars on my shoulder? they are bars of authority, when I speak the people see these bars and they know that behind me is the army of Rome, and behind the army all the might and power of the senate. When I speak obedience is the result, I say to one man come and he cometh, to another go and he goeth....but when I look at You Lord I see not the army of Rome or any earthly government or power, behind you is all the power and authority of the heavenly host, and behind the angelic power the almighty power of God Himself....

Your power is over all the power of the devil to take that palsy by the scruff of the neck, You do not need to come to my house

Stand right here and speak the word only and my servant many miles from here will roll off of his bed of affliction, by the time I get there they will be having a hallelujah fest...

You don't need to come to my house, stand right here and speak the word only and my servant will be healed"

He took the limit of time and space off God
 

Totton Linnet

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conclusion

2,000 years ago Jesus Christ spoke to your need, He spoke with His own body when they strapped Him to the cruel whipping post, He was speaking to your need.

The soldier took a torture instrument called the cat of nine tails although actually it was a flail of 13 straps, at the end of each strap was a piece of bone. And with all his might that soldier laid it across the bare back of Jesus Christ, God's Son.

Not once, not twice but three times until the bible says His back was like a ploughed field and the words of the prophet came to pass.

He was wounded for our transgression
He was bruised for our iniquity
the chastisement for our peace was upon Him
and by His stripes we were healed.

God was speaking to our needs. He had no sin, He bore our sin
He had no sickness, He bore our sickness
He had no death only life, He took our death, He died for us.

This revelation has to be birthed in you even as the revelation concerning Him bearing our sins was birthed. When the revelation came you arose to walk in righteousness and new life. When this revelation if birthed in you, Himself bore our sicknesses and carried our diseases you will arise to walk in health and new life.
 
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